So, a few things I find interesting: 1. shes a full fledged god now, rather than a demigod, as I guessed. 2. Despite being NE, her followers can be CG, which is the only time I've seen an evil god allow good followers. Is this meant to imply she is less evil perhaps 3. I noticed she seems similar to Calistria in wanting revenge and Pharisma in wanting to destroy undead, how do those two gods feel about her?
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So, a few things I find interesting: 1. shes a full fledged god now, rather than a demigod, as I guessed. 2. Despite being NE, her followers can be CG, which is the only time I've seen an evil god allow good followers. Is this meant to imply she is less evil perhaps 3. I noticed she seems similar to Calistria in wanting revenge and Pharisma in wanting to destroy undead, how do those two gods feel about her?
1) Yup; she got tougher.
2) Yup; she's a complicated deity when it comes to alignments allowed.
3) Unrevealed... I suspect Pharasma is hopeful and Calistria is amused though.
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I really love her, she reminds me of Sylvanus Windrunner from Azeroth but better.
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I really like how she is clearly striving to be a better version of herself (allowing CG followers) but also struggles with her worst impulses (still NE). It really helps to better flesh her out as a more three dimensional character. Flaws make a character interesting.
I have absolutely nothing to base this on but I get the feeling she'd be a deity more likely to make use of witches.
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I really love her, she reminds me of Sylvanus Windrunner from Azeroth but better.
I always got the impression that's who she's inspired by
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I really like how she is clearly striving to be a better version of herself (allowing CG followers) but also struggles with her worst impulses (still NE). It really helps to better flesh her out as a more three dimensional character. Flaws make a character interesting.
I read her entry (several times) and found it confusing.
Who would she allow to worship her?
What are her goals? What really are areas of interest?
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I really like how she is clearly striving to be a better version of herself (allowing CG followers) but also struggles with her worst impulses (still NE). It really helps to better flesh her out as a more three dimensional character. Flaws make a character interesting.I read her entry (several times) and found it confusing.
Who would she allow to worship her?
What are her goals? What really are areas of interest?
People who really wanna f$%& up some Necromancers.
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One thing to keep in mind is that Arazni is a goddess in transition from one thing to another. Her current presentation in Gods and Magic is meant to be somewhat confusing and contradictory, since she's not quite where she wants to be but also not quite where she was. I suspect this confusion is bleeding into her religion and faithful as well, with a fair amount of infighting and bickering and cross-purpose goals. As time goes on, her story will continue to be told, and assuming we keep telling Golarion stories we'll get to her ultimate fate.
For Nocticula, her transition from version 1 to version 2 happened mostly "off screen." We're trying to put Arazni's "on screen," with it beginning in the Tyrant's Grasp adventure path. I suspect/hope we'll have more to say about her some day, but we didn't want to magically have her immediately go from one to two because that cheapens the process of healing and the lasting effects of trauma.
Her goals are in a nutshell, though, to regain her own agency and to escape "life" as a pawn or slave or minion of other forces, to regain her dignity, and to help others find their own similar escape from enslavement as well, PARTICULARLY those who have been enslaved by being turned undead against their will.
But she's not pursuing these goals in a friendly, forgiving way at this point.
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In fairness, she also went from Good to Evil.
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Lissala in reverse.
Recent divine alignment changes seem to be only from Evil to Good.
That's intentional.
The baseline setup of the game is to present a world in which evil is on the rise and heroes are needed to step in and save the day.
That baseline setup was over a decade ago, and things like having some evil deities shift toward good or having some big-bad evil zones like the Worldwound go away is our way of saying all of your player characters are helping to save the world.
Will it ever be explained why Aroden didn't try to rescue her?
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And he was the "God of Humanity"... Nice frontman they chose there... :OWill it ever be explained why Aroden didn't try to rescue her?He's an irresponsible dolthead and tends to abandon things, people, races (shoony) and ideas.
There are plenty of other deities for humans to worship that predate and postdate Aroden. I've always felt that Aroden was the one who pushed the "God of Humanity" himself, with some assits from Absalom, Taldor, and Cheliax in particular, rather than it being something that ALL humans pushed for.
And yet again I'll point out he was lawful neutral, and had been all along. Part of not having good in your alignment as a deity is that you don't do an overwhelming amount of good things.
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And he was the "God of Humanity"... Nice frontman they chose there... :OWill it ever be explained why Aroden didn't try to rescue her?He's an irresponsible dolthead and tends to abandon things, people, races (shoony) and ideas.
Have you seen humanity recently? We could be so lucky to have LN running things.
Makes me wonder why everyone's so sad he's dead if he was such an uncaring jerk. Or why people worshipped him to begin with.
Makes me wonder why everyone's so sad he's dead if he was such an uncaring jerk. Or why people worshipped him to begin with.
Because Nationalism/Specism?
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I wonder how many former Grey Maidens of all alignments might offer her prayers...
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Makes me wonder why everyone's so sad he's dead if he was such an uncaring jerk. Or why people worshipped him to begin with.
Well, his death was marked by a lot of awful things. A permanent hurricane opened up and decimated two countries, earthquakes destroyed 5 cities of Mzali, storms broke out across the world, a demon lord tore open Golarion, the power of prophecy broke, Imperial Lung Wa fell in Tian Xia, etc. It's implied that his death caused much if not all of this, which makes some people understandably upset that he died.
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Makes me wonder why everyone's so sad he's dead if he was such an uncaring jerk. Or why people worshipped him to begin with.
Well you know. Sometimes you have these leaders and people expect a lot from them. If you only look at the facts they're not so shiny, but wishful thinking can cover a multitude of sins.
One of the best descriptions I read was "It's like Cheliax was expecting the Statue of Liberty to wake up and lead them to glory, and instead it fell over and there were storms and earthquakes".
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For most people, Aroden was the not-Jesus.
It was only esoteric sages, high-level adventurers and canny villains who were able to put together the full picture and discover the fact that the guy who did arguably quite a lot of good for humanity (Absalom, Tar-Baphon, countless other projects completed and threats defeated) was at his core a selfish, careless prick with little sense of responsibility for his actions.
Which also makes him all the more compelling and interesting, as opposed to the usual "Flawless Racial Deity" trope.
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What interests me.... is that a guy like Aroden managed to attract the devotion of the likes of Iomedae, Milani, and pre-trauma Arazni.... but I can't think of any of his known, named followers cleaving to his nastier traits.
I think that says a lot about how he presented himself to others.
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Arazni is one of the best things in this edition, learning that Aroden was at the very least flawed also provides a lot of RP potential.
A part of me really wants to play the second AP with an Arazni champion to basically fix what he messed up and demolish all his statues while doing so.
I'm trying to think of a satisfying way of incorporating goddess-in-transition Arazni with ancestry-in-transition of goblins.
Makes me wonder why everyone's so sad he's dead if he was such an uncaring jerk. Or why people worshipped him to begin with.Well, his death was marked by a lot of awful things. A permanent hurricane opened up and decimated two countries, earthquakes destroyed 5 cities of Mzali, storms broke out across the world, a demon lord tore open Golarion, the power of prophecy broke, Imperial Lung Wa fell in Tian Xia, etc. It's implied that his death caused much if not all of this, which makes some people understandably upset that he died.Which makes me wonder if there's not some Galatea-type shenanigans going on there.
Aberrant RPG spoilers
** spoiler omitted **
I found the Aberrant CRB to be an excellent example of how not to write a rule book. I liked the concept though; recently a friend pointed out the The Boys tv series is how she imagined Aberrant being.
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What interests me.... is that a guy like Aroden managed to attract the devotion of the likes of Iomedae, Milani, and pre-trauma Arazni.... but I can't think of any of his known, named followers cleaving to his nastier traits.
I think that says a lot about how he presented himself to others.
I tackle this to some extent in the Windsong Chronicles fiction I wrote about Iomedae's acts... but the short version is Iomedae looked at Aroden and saw both his strengths and weaknesses, but realized that if a god could have weaknesses and faults, it was up to her to learn from his triumphs but not repeat his mistakes. In effect, rather than argue with Aroden and try to change him, she tried (and continues to try) to lead by example rather than by word.
Maybe a dumb question but what other questionable/distubring things did Aroden do in the official storyline?
I tackle this to some extent in the Windsong Chronicles fiction I wrote about Iomedae's acts... but the short version is Iomedae looked at Aroden and saw both his strengths and weaknesses, but realized that if a god could have weaknesses and faults, it was up to her to learn from his triumphs but not repeat his mistakes. In effect, rather than argue with Aroden and try to change him, she tried (and continues to try) to lead by example rather than by word.
And that piece did more to make me like Iomedae than the over a decade's worth of content on her prior to it- but I guess where I was going with my thing, was that Aroden had good people who did good things working with him, and these were eventual deities who got a very good look at his various flaws (albeit too late, in Arazni's case)- so for the common man, mostly exposed to a faith keen to sing its deity's praises, I seriously doubt those flaws were exactly common currency.
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Aroden has accomplished plenty of good deeds. I'm not saying he never did good things. Defeating Tar-Baphon and Deskari both strike me as "save the region" actions, for example.
He's a complex deity, certainly, and it's a disservice to his mythology to assume that one thing defines him.
What are some other unsavory acts he did in canon though? I was thinking maybe he made some alliances with the evil elemental lords and that's why once he died the Eye Of Abendego and various earthquakes happened (indeed, I've always thought there was a giant portal to the Plane Of Air or Water (or both) at the center of the Eye and that's what's causing it.)
Yqatuba, you’re asking for Adventure Path spoilers. I’d suggest looking up the pathfinder wiki
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Maybe a dumb question but what other questionable/distubring things did Aroden do in the official storyline?Spoiler for the Extinction Curse AP:
** spoiler omitted **Aroden was also the patron deity of Taldor, which did a whole lot of conquering all over the Inner Sea region. I'm pretty sure the people who once lived in what is now Cheliax, Nirmathas, Andoran, and so on were less than appreciative.
And then Cheliax after that. Cheliax had their giant empire before they became devil worshipers. He also was the patron of Absalom, which until recently allowed slavery to be legal (see LN not LG).
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It should be noted that it was Aroden’s faithful who established the settler state of Sargava, which was fundamentally built on racism and exploitation, and that the colonizers worked hard to convert the natives to his worship. It doesn’t seem like he cut off spells to any of them or sent any judgment, so I assume such a thing had his blessing.
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I was just having a look at Divine Spell and gave a quick look to Avatar (10th level), Arazni is brutal!
6d6 persistent bleeding damage seems way stronger than the others options!
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I used to wonder what Arazni and her order of knighthood was *before* they got obsessed with the undead. We know that she was a powerful wizard (although it was fun back when PF first came out to speculate that she might have been a *paladin* in life, like Iomedae!). And that, contrary to expectations, she had an order of knights devoted to her.
That's kinda neat, and I wonder if the birthplace of human 'eldritch knights' or 'magi' would have begun with her worship, a bunch of sword-wielding armored warriors revering a goddess of magic.
Her specific relationship with Aroden also intrigues me. Was she his apprentice? Was she seen more or less favorably than Iomedae, because she had so much more in common with 'the boss?' (Or was she instead seen as a potential rival, or perhaps a disappointment who could never match him?)
And were there others? A 'Charlie's Angels' setup requires three 'angels' to Aroden's 'Charlie...' :) They've got a tank (Iomedae), a caster (Arazni), so perhaps a skillmonkey? (Ah yes, secretly Norgorber is a goddess under that cowl, and the third of 'Aroden's Angels!')
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And were there others? A 'Charlie's Angels' setup requires three 'angels' to Aroden's 'Charlie...' :) They've got a tank (Iomedae), a caster (Arazni), so perhaps a skillmonkey? (Ah yes, secretly Norgorber is a goddess under that cowl, and the third of 'Aroden's Angels!'
Until the death of Aroden in 4606 AR, the goddess Milani was simply one of dozens of saints within the Last Azlanti's faith. She was the beacon of hope to all those who fought against repressive regimes, giving courage to those who had little but their desire to live a free life. The death of her patron, combined with the tremendous upheaval and suffering that followed his death, gave her a focus and attracted many new followers. Those devoted to her found the courage to organize the rebellions against the infernal takeover of the Chelish Empire, helping many of her outlying territories break free of its control. They fought against the slow slide into barbarism, restoring people's hope that a just and good society could be restored. Milani has never been as popular as Aroden's other followers, such as Iomedae, perhaps because the Inheritor's worship had already been firmly established before their patron's passing.
The interesting thing is that Milani is Chaotic Good, so a pretty far cry from Aroden's Lawful Neutral. Although she's working together pretty well with Iomedae these days.
In PF1, Milani had the Rose Warden prestige class associated with her, which was really well-suited to put on top of a rogue...
That's kinda neat, and I wonder if the birthplace of human 'eldritch knights' or 'magi' would have begun with her worship, a bunch of sword-wielding armored warriors revering a goddess of magic.
I imagine the Ten Magical Warriors were the start of the current incarnation of Eldritch Knights (no way to know what the Azlanti were getting up to), but Arazni might have brought them and Magi into the mainstream for Avistan.
Arazni is from Arcadia, so who knows what she cooked up to contribute tot he evolution of Magi/Eldritch Knights/Arcane Archers...