Not counting Magus that can abuse critical hits, how powerful would a weapon be with a bigger critical threat range? Does making it one Handed or light with a low damage change enough to try and balance it?
Damage-wise, it wouldn't be that much stronger than an 18-20 weapon. But there are a lot of effects that ride on critical hits. For example, there are things like swashbuckler panache and flaming burst. It probably won't break your game to allow a weapon like this, but there's also probably a reason we don't have an official one.
That would be 13-20 crit with Improved Critical or Keen? Yeah, that's powerful. TWF Fighers with Critical Mastery and Staggering/Blinding Critical would be pretty popular.
Depending on the base damage of the weapon it could be very strong or moderately weak. However, in the hands of a Warpriest it could be very deadly with their Sacred Weapon ability boosting the damage die.
Moving away from the damage side of things though... it would be an excellent weapon for swashbucklers to maintain their panache with, even if it were just used as a secondary weapon to crit fish when low on panache. The number of crit based rider effects from feats, spells, and enchants is a bit crazy... it could deal a measly 1d1 damage and still cause all sorts of problems just due to the extra effects that accompany its crits.
It would make it one of the highest damage weapon for late game regardless of damage dice. A Falchion deals more average damage than a Greatsword when you get to a +20 static damage bonus (STR + Power Attack etc) and add keen. Thus even if this weapon did 1d2 damage it would eventually out-damage lower crit-range weapons (maybe only for Barbarians and similar high damage builds).
Also if you add Critical Focus then anyone who hits on a 13+ would confirm on a 9+, which makes lower accuracy characters better at dealing damage (just as an aside).
I don't think I agree. If you take Improved Crit, an 18-20 weapon Threatens on a 15-20, and a 17-20 Weapon would threaten on a 12-20.
It would be 13-20.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 - regular (4 chances to crit)
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 - keen (8 chances to crit)
Crit fishing builds we're always the most powerful melee builds in PF1.
You can't lower the damage dice enough to make a 17-20 crit range not the best weapon. Even if it deals only 1 damage, the majority of damage comes from the character and not the weapon, at least once you get beyond like level 1.
About the only way I could see it not being over powered is if you made the damage dice low and made it count as an offh-hand light weapon for things like power attack or strength bonus to damage, to arbitrarily lower the damage potential otherwise.
Crit fishing builds we're always the most powerful melee builds in PF1.
You can't lower the damage dice enough to make a 17-20 crit range not the best weapon. Even if it deals only 1 damage, the majority of damage comes from the character and not the weapon, at least once you get beyond like level 1.
Well ... maybe level 5 at least =P
About the only way I could see it not being over powered is if you made the damage dice low and made it count as an offh-hand light weapon for things like power attack or strength bonus to damage, to arbitrarily lower the damage potential otherwise.
You could give it the Rapier treatment - Finessable but not light:
- If you off-hand it you take -4 to hit.
- You need 13 STR for Power Attack because it doesn't work with Piranhha Strike.
- But you still don't get the 1.5× damage modifier for wielding it in 2 hands.
I had a Hunter that crit on a 15. Had Outflank and Paired Opportunists. It got to the point that my GM just said I killed my opponent if I confirmed a second crit and it was under 100 HP rather than have me roll dice after dice. He'd have probably had a 'rocks fall everyone dies' moment if I was critting on a 12.
Not counting Magus that can abuse critical hits, how powerful would a weapon be with a bigger critical threat range? Does making it one Handed or light with a low damage change enough to try and balance it?
It changes nothing.
1. There are too many classes that scale weapon damage.
2. Static damage > weapon damage
3. Critical feats are already nasty, imposing some of the nastiest conditions in the game.
4. Paired Opportunist + Outflank
Even if you made the crit multiple x1 there would still be builds to take advantage of it.
I would be fascinated to see the builds that would be invented for a 17-20x1 crit weapon. I may just add something like this in my next campaign to see how my players would use it.
Even if you made the crit multiple x1 there would still be builds to take advantage of it.I would be fascinated to see the builds that would be invented for a 17-20x1 crit weapon. I may just add something like this in my next campaign to see how my players would use it.
If it were me, I'd use a lot of the same build as my hunter with Outflank and Paired Opportunists. Then I'd throw in a few critical feats like Sneaking Critical for extra sneak attack dice and something to debuff the opponent if it survives the constant assault.
The above is a link to a pic I took on Roll20 during a game. I had Mick the boar go first. He has a Slam attack thanks to Irlana taking Evolved Companion. There was still a round of AoO attacks to go before Irlana took her regular attacks. If this kind of thing can happen on a Keen Scimitar critting on a 15, imagine what would happen if it could crit on an even smaller number?