Creative Director
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Anyone can take it. Very few will succeed. You don't demand the test. You just go to the Starstone Cathedral, cross the gap in a way that hasn't been done before by previous successes, and endure.
For some folks, reaching the Cathedral to make that first step might be dangerous or impossible, of course, but that's not the test's fault.
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Creative Director
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Anyone can take it. Very few will succeed. You don't demand the test. You just go to the Starstone Cathedral, cross the gap in a way that hasn't been done before by previous successes, and endure.
For some folks, reaching the Cathedral to make that first step might be dangerous or impossible, of course, but that's not the test's fault.
Because now I can't stop thinking about it, does that unique crossing only apply to people who have passed the entire test, or all successful crossings to date?
And I wonder if there's a list of methods already done, because if I recall the only one that's really known is Iomedae's 11th? Act. We don't know how Norgorber or Cayden Cailean crossed.
The hero gets to the Starstone and gets buzzed out because it turns out he crossed the same way that someone else did, but had no way of knowing seems...harsh.
My understanding is that it's the successful ones that count, but I'm not sure if that's a requirement of the cathedral or just a weird Absalom tradition off the top of my head.
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Still in practice it prevents certain creatures from taking the test.
I wonder, how official is that "everyone is allowed to take the test"? Can a obviously evil creature which would otherwise be attacked on sight, a chromatic dragon, lich or demon, demand safe passage to the cathedral?
I get the impression that no, they can't. Taking the Test of the Starstone is not a right under Absalom law. If they won't let you into the city, you need to either sneak or come in as a conqueror. Now, a lich or demon may well have the ability to disguise themselves and walk in, but that's not what you asked.
Are very inhuman intelligent creatures like pegasi or griffins turned away because the people guarding the cathedral don't even consider the possibility that they want or can take the test?
By the fiction, there are no people 'guarding the cathedral'. There's just a moat and a city around it. If you can get into Absalom without the people trying to stop you, they won't suddenly try to stop you at the cathedral.
So...they guard the city from all the things you'd expect them to guard the city from, but don't care who, of those allowed in the city, goes for the cathedral.
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Norgorber probably just walked right up to it. It's just the megalomaniacal kind of evil who is unwilling to keep a low profile on the way to the way to the Starstone Cathedral that Absalomians don't want to let into their city.
Like if Abrogail Thrune traveled to Absalom with a diplomatic entourage to negotiate with the Grand Council about something, she could probably slip off and attempt the test. If she showed up with a conquering army, they wouldn't let her past the walls of the city.
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Which has more to do with the city being inbetween the army and what they want, and nothing to do with the Starstone Cathedral itself :3
That is an interesting sort of 'defense mechanism,' by building a massive city around the magic rock what turns people into gods, the founders kind of made it so that generally only the sorts of people that can at least pass and function (even if only temporarily) in such a city could get to the stone and become a god.
So the red dragon Daralathxl (sp?) or various other powerful monstrous individuals are less likely to be able to become new and terrifying gods... (if only because they'd be less likely to be able to run the gauntlet that is Absalom, in their way)
Which has more to do with the city being inbetween the army and what they want, and nothing to do with the Starstone Cathedral itself :3That is an interesting sort of 'defense mechanism,' by building a massive city around the magic rock what turns people into gods, the founders kind of made it so that generally only the sorts of people that can at least pass and function (even if only temporarily) in such a city could get to the stone and become a god.
So the red dragon Daralathxl (sp?) or various other powerful monstrous individuals are less likely to be able to become new and terrifying gods... (if only because they'd be less likely to be able to run the gauntlet that is Absalom, in their way)
Given that Aroden was the god of humanity (over and against the other ancestries), that sounds like the kind of defense of his Starstone that he'd approve of. :)
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Given that Aroden was the god of humanity (over and against the other ancestries), that sounds like the kind of defense of his Starstone that he'd approve of. :)Which has more to do with the city being inbetween the army and what they want, and nothing to do with the Starstone Cathedral itself :3That is an interesting sort of 'defense mechanism,' by building a massive city around the magic rock what turns people into gods, the founders kind of made it so that generally only the sorts of people that can at least pass and function (even if only temporarily) in such a city could get to the stone and become a god.
So the red dragon Daralathxl (sp?) or various other powerful monstrous individuals are less likely to be able to become new and terrifying gods... (if only because they'd be less likely to be able to run the gauntlet that is Absalom, in their way)
Aroden: *steeples fingers* "How can I f$$+ over something with scales today?"
Dara can, ya'know, just fly to the Cathedral.
Granted his ego would not allow him to do that.
The ego is for sure part of it, but for some of your "big bad" candidates they probably figure that what they've got going on is good enough that they don't want to risk essentially "annihilation" for the chance to get even more.
Like if you're a Lich or a Red Dragon, you're most likely gonna be on top of your local heap for the next thousand years or so. No reason to take a risky shortcut.
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Iomedae's entrance has been mentioned several places canonically (and is her 11th and final Act):
She threw down her cloak and walked across it like it was a bridge.
That doesn't sound super impressive until you remember that magic doesn't work to do the crossing and it was an ordinary cloak...
For that matter, how did Iomedae do it? Cayden genuinely doesn't remember and Norgorber isn't telling, but her method ought to be one of the big acts for her church.
What Deadmanwalking said.^
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I wonder who was the successful attempt that just jumped off a tall building with a hang glider and floated across the gap, probably Cayden.
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I wonder who was the successful attempt that just jumped off a tall building with a hang glider and floated across the gap, probably Cayden.
I can see that being either Cayden or Norgorber, actually. It's possible as both a simple, clever, plan that Norgorber might've dreamed up, and simultaneously the sort of thing that sounds like a great idea when you're drunk...
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I assume that a city like Absolom has enough defenses to turn away a single dragon before even coming close.Dara can, ya'know, just fly to the Cathedral.
Granted his ego would not allow him to do that.
Yeah being a major metropolitan center for the entire world they probably have access to mayonnaise.
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I wonder who was the successful attempt that just jumped off a tall building with a hang glider and floated across the gap, probably Cayden.I can see that being either Cayden or Norgorber, actually. It's possible as both a simple, clever, plan that Norgorber might've dreamed up, and simultaneously the sort of thing that sounds like a great idea when you're drunk...
I like to think that Cayden just got so blackout drunk that he woke up on the other side.
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Dara can, ya'know, just fly to the Cathedral.
Granted his ego would not allow him to do that.
Would his ego even allow him to try the Test? I could just picture him going "I'm a dragon, I already approach divinity anyway! Why would I need some silly human's Test to prove my awesomeness?!"
And then he flame-broils and eats you.
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I had posited some time back that there are few entities in Golarion lore that seem like they'd actually consider becoming a god a downgrade, since it would seriously cut down on their ability to function in the world.
Baba Yaga would be a major example. She's already got power at the highest tier, and while becoming a god would only increase that, it would also restrict her from directly meddling in Golarion (or the other mortal worlds she likely meddles?).
Until recently, I would have put Tar-Baphon in that category. He'd already *killed a god,* and has very concrete plans for this world, plans which would be frustrated / delayed by his being exiled from Golarion and forced to only interact with it indirectly, through a church and priesthood. But crazy is as crazy does, and I suppose he wouldn't be a megalomaniacal supervillain if he wasn't sabotaging his own long-term goals somehow. :)
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Dara can, ya'know, just fly to the Cathedral.
Granted his ego would not allow him to do that.
Would his ego even allow him to try the Test? I could just picture him going "I'm a dragon, I already approach divinity anyway! Why would I need some silly human's Test to prove my awesomeness?!"
And then he flame-broils and eats you.
point, he does prefer people to refer to him as Emperor or God already, Calling him "King" is actually insulting to him.
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Given the reward if you pass, I think some arbitrary, maybe even petty and vindictive harshness is to be expected.The Starstone wasn't designed to make gods though. It would have no need for any kind of virtue tests of character or cleverness.
Assuming that it does starts to imply a great deal. If the Starstone is vindictive or petty, there's an animus to it--a will that must be appeased instead of a magic rock that imbues great power.
Aroden can explain a lot, he rose the Stone from the ocean and was its first user. It was most likely his magic that built the cathedral, and likely his rules that govern the test. If there's a will of the Starstone It could have absorbed a portion of his lawful neutral jerkness.
The aboleths who summoned it could explain some of it, its purpose was evil and twisted and if there's an animating force to it no doubt that was imparted upon the stone.
Is it the lingering spite of Acavna, the god who was slain by crossing the path of the falling stone?
I suppose it makes sense that we know so little about the test, given how few people survive attempts at it, but I think that assuming any kind of intelligence on the stone raises it from plot device to actor and that creates more problems than it solves.
Maybe it does though. Maybe its a sentient God Making Rock and the aboleths dropped it on Golarion as part of a massive plan to destroy the entire cosmos by making gods.
Personally, I think its psycho-reactive like the Dark-Side Cave on Dagobah. You face what you bring in.
It also depends on how much of the test comes from the starstone and how much from the cathedral. With Aroden being a god of humans and only humans ascending so far some might believe that the test is rigged.
That would explain why some attack Absolom instead of sneaking in. They want to tear down the cathedral to bypass the test.
It's some of both, there's hazards and guardians in the cathedral itself, but the real test comes once you actually reach the Starstone.
There's not really anything to make it anti-human, any obstacles put in place would work on humans just as well as others.
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Now wondering if Amaznen's spirit stays near the Starstone and makes sure only those he deems worthy or fated reach it.
Aroden worshipped both him and Acavna. Iomedae and Cayden Cailean both have similarities to Acavna. Norgorber would fit his secret knowledge trope.
And a LN Azlant god just might prefer human deities.
Anyone can take the SST, but you really should take the PSST first for practice.
Its daddy will be very proud and happy they're following in his footsteps, eating important stuff and ruining other people's fun.
Plus hey, that's less potential gods to try and put him back in his cage when he inevitably escapes.
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What happens if one my Tarrasques escapes during a day trip to Absalom, and the thing eats the starstone?
Earthfall happens backwards- Azlant rises from the waves, Amaznen and Acavna come back to life, and the Aboleth population explodes.
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Given the reward if you pass, I think some arbitrary, maybe even petty and vindictive harshness is to be expected.The Starstone wasn't designed to make gods though. It would have no need for any kind of virtue tests of character or cleverness.
Assuming that it does starts to imply a great deal. If the Starstone is vindictive or petty, there's an animus to it--a will that must be appeased instead of a magic rock that imbues great power.
Aroden can explain a lot, he rose the Stone from the ocean and was its first user. It was most likely his magic that built the cathedral, and likely his rules that govern the test. If there's a will of the Starstone It could have absorbed a portion of his lawful neutral jerkness.
The aboleths who summoned it could explain some of it, its purpose was evil and twisted and if there's an animating force to it no doubt that was imparted upon the stone.
Is it the lingering spite of Acavna, the god who was slain by crossing the path of the falling stone?
I suppose it makes sense that we know so little about the test, given how few people survive attempts at it, but I think that assuming any kind of intelligence on the stone raises it from plot device to actor and that creates more problems than it solves.
Maybe it does though. Maybe its a sentient God Making Rock and the aboleths dropped it on Golarion as part of a massive plan to destroy the entire cosmos by making gods.
Personally, I think its psycho-reactive like the Dark-Side Cave on Dagobah. You face what you bring in.
i personally like the idea that it is psycho-reactive like the Dark-Side Cave on Dagobah, i mean why else would caiden be the accidental or drunk god? why would immodai and nor have the portfolios that they have, wouldn't the power just be random if it just granted power?
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Here's a question: if you get through the Test and instead of touching the Starstone directly, you poke it with a stick, do you become divine or does the stick become divine (divinity granting it sentience somehow)?
The stick explodes, unable to serve as a vessel for that much power and you're left without a stick.
IMO, most of the test takes place once you touch the Starstone.
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Here's a question: if you get through the Test and instead of touching the Starstone directly, you poke it with a stick, do you become divine or does the stick become divine (divinity granting it sentience somehow)?The stick explodes, unable to serve as a vessel for that much power and you're left without a stick.
IMO, most of the test takes place once you touch the Starstone.
OW! Splinters!
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OW! Splinters!Here's a question: if you get through the Test and instead of touching the Starstone directly, you poke it with a stick, do you become divine or does the stick become divine (divinity granting it sentience somehow)?The stick explodes, unable to serve as a vessel for that much power and you're left without a stick.
IMO, most of the test takes place once you touch the Starstone.
we aren’t talking about mutant rats...
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There are many examples in real life where a position that is technically open to everyone has only been filled by people of one kind due to privilege - maybe humans just have the right combination of;
1# Numerous enough in the vicinity of Abasalom that many have tried to take the test
2# Short lived enough to want to seek immortality
3# Ambitious enough to want that kind of power
4# Well regarded/well-treated enough by society to be commonly doing well enough to be able to harbour such an ambition (if you are struggling to survive, you may well try to ascend out of desperation to better your situation, but you won't have the education and fitness and support that make it likely for you to succeed)
5# Not likely to be in a situation of great power and wealth by default (dragons for example, usually are able to hold sway over a bunch of people and amass a lot of treasure and power just by being dragons, so it is less tempting to risk losing it all on an attempt at ascension)
For example, there would be less elves attempting the test due to 1# and 2#, and less goblins attempting due to 3# and 4#
That's not to say that a person from a population who doesn't meet those criteria can't or won't succeed at the starstone test, just that less people from those populations will make attempts, and less will have the resources to make good attempts, and that it takes many thousands of attempts for a population to get one person through who succeeds, so humans have a pretty good leg-up on everyone else due to the setting having them as the "default" ancestry.
Cayden's Passage is probably the easies to figure out , he got there with out knowing how he got there.