If **A** globe enters a space with a creature, it stops moving for the round and deals 3d6 points of electricity damage to that creature, though a successful Reflex save negates the damage...
--that looks like each globe triggers it's own save. But the wording for the daze effect is pretty clear to me:
If the spell allows a saving throw, a successful save negates the daze effect
1. Does the spell allow a saving throw? Yes. It actually allows several.
2. Was there **A** successful save against this spell? If so, the "daze effect" is negated.
Ball Lightning is either an amazingly ridiculous spell for this metamagic feat or one of the absolute worst, depending on your reading.
I understand this is a pfs question so this will not apply.
However I like many have found Daze to be overpowering
I applied this nerf to daze for my blaster to avoid overpowering the campaign
"Dazing is a mind affecting effect. And therefore creatures immune to those effects are not affected.
Once a creature has been affected by Dazing every round after the first it can make a Will save to act normally for that round. If the creature is subject to continous damage (Ball Lightning for example) it receives a -2 penalty to its Will save to act normally for the round
If Persistent is applied to a Dazing spell, only the initial save is affected. The subsequent Will saves to act normally for the round are not altered by Persistent."
is it? in that case you would choose one of the balls to apply the daze too.I understand this is a pfs question so this will not apply.
Daze applies to each of the balls... However, even though Ball lightning has a duration of 1rd/level and produces multiple balls any given target only has to SAVE ONCE vs Daze for the duration of spell and IF it fails the initial save it is allowed to roll Will saves to act normally each subsequent round for the duration of the Daze
Same thing would apply to a spell like
School conjuration (creation) [fire]; Level sorcerer/wizard 2
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a pinch of sulfur and a single shuriken worth 2 sp)
EFFECT
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect Two or more fiery shuriken
Duration 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes
DESCRIPTION
You call forth two fiery projectiles resembling shuriken, plus one more for every two caster levels beyond 3rd (to a maximum of eight shuriken at 15th level), which hover in front of you. When these shuriken appear, you can launch some or all of them at the same target or different targets. Each shuriken requires a ranged touch attack roll to hit and deals 1d8 points of fire damage. You provoke no attacks of opportunity when launching them. Any shuriken you do not launch as part of casting this spell remains floating near you for the spell’s duration. On rounds subsequent to your casting of this spell, you can spend a swift action to launch one of these remaining shuriken or a standard action to launch any number of these remaining shuriken. If you fail to launch a shuriken before the duration ends, that shuriken disappears and is wasted.
Regardless of how the Shurikens are used any individual target will only save vs the Daze effect once
Disclaimer: this is homebrew, not RAW. But this nerf (which I think is well balanced) has allowed Daze to be used extensively without trivializing encounters
How is he casting Persistent Dazing Ball Lightning at lvl 15?
Ball Lightning (4th lvl)
Dazing Spell (+3 spell slot)
Persistent Spell (+2 spell slot)
= 9th level slot
You don't get your first 9th lvl slot until either 17 or 18, depending on your class.
The only way he could do this is with Spell Perfection in Ball Lightning, does he have that?
Also, if you're the DM, put the kibosh on that with counterspell or dispel magic.
I just assumed a metamagic rod was involved.
Or one of the metamagic cost reduction traits. And spell perfection is a valid option.
Trying to claim the base wording turns off dazing spell when you save against it a second time is fairly silly, there's plenty of precedent denying that. Putting in a house rule to weaken dazing spell is less fragile and more sensible.
Yeah, this one is rules legal, but keep in mind a few things.
1. Check their saving throw DC calculations carefully. Metamagic does not increase spell saving throw DC. Thus, Ball Lightning is only a DC of 14 plus whatever their casting modifier and miscellaneous feats produce.
A standard CR 15 combat creature should have a +16 Reflex saving throw bonus on average. Even if the player is adding a +7 from their casting stat, that's still around 75% odds of making each saving throw.
2. Dazing spell only works if the creature takes damage from the spell. Any creature with resistance to electricity 10 is going to have near even odds of stopping any damage going through from 3d6. Resistance 20 or protection from energy will completely shut down this strategy. Spell resistance is also another show-stopper.
3. If we assume they're using a metamagic rod for at least part of the combination, a valid enemy strategy is to disarm or sunder their rod.
have the big bad throw it back at them with a cherry on top.
"what you don't think your the only one who thought o this?. .also my minions all cast dazing magic missiles bwahahaha!"
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Dazing spell has always been problematic. I have always ruled that "a successful save negates the daze effect" means that the entire Dazing Spell daze effect for that creature is negated. Basically means that any creature taking damage from a Dazing Spell only ever has to make a single successful saving throw per casting of a Dazing Spell.
If you're the DM, you should Dominate Person on him and then use Dazing Persistent Lightning Ball on the party.
If you're trying to game the game, your game can also be gamed against you.
As if Dominate Person has a chance to succeed with a one round casting time and Will save to negate.
One Persistent Dazing Ball Lightning counterspell later...
Looks like the BBEG just got 4 invisible sorcerer minions who have SF/GSF in Enchantment then ;)
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If one feat kan trivialize boss encounters - then there is only one reason it isn’t banned yet. It is a caster feat.
If one melee or ranged combat feat did the same, it would have been banned ages ago.
As Ryze Kuja wrote;
If you did the same with your players - they would feel cheated and it could easily end in a TPK.
No fun feats - should be banned or nerfed.
By the way at least dazing spell has a lot of prerequesting irrelevant feats or absurdly high skill ranks.... no?
Sorry about the rant...
Looks like the BBEG just got 4 invisible sorcerer minions who have SF/GSF in Enchantment then ;)Sure, I’ll have a unicorn move the goal too.
Not sure what you're getting at here. Didn't you say earlier that you don't even play with Dazing MM?