So, mask from divination states that it works like non detection except where "In the case of divination spells that would normally reveal the wearer’s presence, such as see invisibility, the spell works, but the wearer is detected only if the caster succeeds at a caster level check."
This makes sense that it would work on true seeing as well, the caster of true seeing would need to succeed on that check.
My question is how does this affect monsters that have True Seeing as innate abilities but don't have a caster level (ex: Crag Linnorm)?
1. Does the spell allow a saving throw? Yes. It actually allows several.
2. Was there **A** successful save against this spell? If so, the "daze effect" is negated.
Given the wording of dazing spell, this is how i would interpret it. If it were worded as "if the creature fails its saving throw, then it is dazed", then it would make more sense. but it is specifically worded this way.
Quixote wrote:
Ball Lightning is either an amazingly ridiculous spell for this metamagic feat or one of the absolute worst, depending on your reading.
You could use it to attempt to daze 4 separate targets, that should work fine.
one spell oing damage so one daze rolland one again for persist. just like magic missile would be
So if there are 4 balls in a single creature's square, it rolls once, then once again due to persistent? Pass means no damage that round, no daze. Fail means full damage and daze.
That sounds correct to me but this is a major argument right now.
There is a local player that is using this to 100% end final boss fights at high level, by making them roll 8 reflex saves, and if they fail even one of those saves, they are dazed for four rounds (which, in level 15-ish tier play, ends a single monster fight as very few things can pass 8 reflex saves at once). I have some questions regarding how he is using this, and specifically in regards to the wording of the various abilities.
Any thoughts on the following would be appreciated.
This is for society play, so I can't change what the bad guys are/do significantly
Point 1: ball lightning is reflex negates. if all of the spheres are on the same creature, it seems as it would need one reflex save to negate all the damage that round. If you are using it on X separate creatures, they would all need to save out of it; but only once per round, no matter how many spheres are in their square.
Point 2: Dazing spell: when a creature takes damage from this spell (not from each component of this spell), they become dazed.
Point 3: Dazing spell: If the spell allows a saving throw, a successful save negates the daze effect. this sounds like one successful save is all that is needed. if the spell allows multiple saving throws, only one would be needed to negate the daze (as the daze is tied to the entire spell)
Addendum: "when a creature takes damage from this spell, they become dazed. If the spell allows a saving throw, a successful save negates the daze effect" <-- actual wording as opposed to -->"when a creature takes damage from this spell and the spell allows a saving throw, if the creature fails that saving throw, they become dazed"
Point 4: as each sphere is 5 foot diameter, can they share squares (or cubes)? Can multiple spheres be used against a medium creature?
All rules texts grabbed from archives of nethys:
Ball Lightning:
Source Advanced Player's Guide pg. 204
School evocation [air, electricity]; Level arcanist 4, bloodrager 4, druid 4, hunter 4, magus 4, occultist 4, shaman 4, sorcerer 4, wizard 4
Casting
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M/DF (a small iron ring)
Effect
Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect two or more 5-ft.-diameter spheres
Duration 1 round/level
Saving Throw Reflex negates; Spell Resistance yes
Description
You create two globes of lightning that fly in whichever direction you indicate. For every 4 caster levels above 7th, you create an additional globe of lightning (3 globes at 11th, 4 globes at 15th, to the maximum of 5 globes at 19th). These globes fly at a rate of 20 feet per round and have perfect maneuverability. Wind does not affect a flying sphere’s course.
If a globe enters a space with a creature, it stops moving for the round and deals 3d6 points of electricity damage to that creature, though a successful Reflex save negates the damage. Creatures wearing metal armor take a –4 penalty on this saving throw.
Each globe moves as long as you actively direct it (it’s a move action for you to direct all the spheres created by a single casting of this spell); otherwise they stay at rest. These globes have no mass and cannot push aside unwilling creatures or move solid objects. A ball lightning globe winks out if it exceeds the spell’s range.
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Dazing spell:
Source Advanced Player's Guide pg. 157
You can daze creatures with the power of your spells.
Benefit: You can modify a spell to daze a creature damaged by the spell. When a creature takes damage from this spell, they become dazed for a number of rounds equal to the original level of the spell. If the spell allows a saving throw, a successful save negates the daze effect. If the spell does not allow a save, the target can make a Will save to negate the daze effect. If the spell effect also causes the creature to become dazed, the duration of this metamagic effect is added to the duration of the spell. A dazing spell uses up a spell slot three levels higher than the spell’s actual level. Spells that do not inflict damage do not benefit from this feat.
