Help with a LG Mystic Theurge build


Advice


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Character concept: a Lawful Good Mystic Theurge who's pretty much a pure crusader type. In Golarion, he might be a devotee of Ragathiel, yeah? He's a blaster who is all about DPR. Can work as part of a team, but given a few rounds to prepare he can also buff himself up, summon some meat shields, and then get the job done flying solo.

Middle-aged human, 9th level, Wiz 3/Cler 3/MysTh 3 so he's casting like a Wiz 7 / Cler 7. Very probably an Evoker with Versatile Evocation. He has burned one feat on Improved Familiar to get the Lantern Archon. Yeah, that's suboptimal, but this build is about flavor. Besides, the 50 lb. teleport means he can keep his spellbook and all unused magic items back home, calling hem only when needed.

Otherwise, how would you build this? I'm looking for blasty-ness and also thematic notes (Law, Good, Light, Fire, making evil things explode).

Thanks in advance,

Doug M.


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Ok. Yeah. Preface: I think Mystic Theurge is a weak character that doesn't do what either class does well enough to make up for being 3 caster levels behind a single class character. That said, you've made some technical errors that I'll try to correct.

First, your casting abilities are 6th level Wizard, 6th level Cleric. 3 wis/cleric + 3 MT = 6 no matter how you look at it.

Second, Lantern Archon is not available as an improved familiar. The only archon available is the Harbinger and it doesn't have a teleport ability. It seems the developers made improved familiars to make sure the outsiders don't have that teleport. Its like they don't trust a player with unlimited amounts of teleport at 7th level.

Third, you don't qualify for the Harbinger Archon either, that requires arcane CL 7 and you're only CL 6. There are improved familiars that only require CL 3 so you can take the feat, just not that choice.

Since a MT is 1.5 spell levels behind either class they are made up of the creatures you summon are just meat shields. While you have a lot of spell slots, your actual spells are just as limited as either class. So for instance if you depend on haste, you can only cast it twice a day.

Also your stated purpose is to be a nuker. Cleric is bad at that, and you're weaker than a single class wizard who arguably is not as good as a Sorcerer at nuking.

My alternative suggestion would be a Sorcerer 9 with the False Priest archetype and either Orc Blooded or Dragonic Bloodline(fire) with Blood Havoc mutation. That will make you a seriously heavy hitting nuking machine. Do the trait thing with Wayang Spellhunter/Magical Lineage for Fireball, Spell Focus: Evocation, Spell Specialization: Fireball, Heighten Spell, Preferred Spell: Fireball, Bloodline Feat: Metamagic, Empowered Spell, probably Dazing Spell if you are human. Also pick up 1 or 2 rods of elemental magic for the times you need a different element. Also pick up a few scrolls with the divine spells you want to cast. You can burn a slot 1 higher than the spell instead of consuming the divine scroll.


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What meirril has stated is correct. MT isn't great because you give up spell progression. There is a work around that makes it some what tenable. If you take 7 levels in wizard you can grab the arcane discovery faith magic. Pick any 2nd level divine spell and you now meet the pre-requisites for mystic theurge. Now you take 1 level in whatever divine class you want and you can start taking levels in mystic theurge.

So, at 9th level you would be Wizard(7), Cleric(1), MT(1). The advantage is now your wizard spells only suffer from a 1 level dip instead of a 3 level dip. However, your cleric spells will now be 7 levels behind instead of just 3.

If you want to be a blaster I would suggest the following build.

Blockbuster Wizard (Wizard)

Spoiler:

Key concepts: High AE damage output
Race: Elf
Racial Traits: Elven Magic and (Fleet Footed or Illustrious Urbanite and Long-Limbed )
Traits: Magical Lineage (Fireball)
Class: Sorcerer(1), Wizard or Arcanist(X)
Archetype(s): Crossblooded(Sorcerer)
Bloodlines: Orc and Void-touched or Brutal or Starsoul or Sage or Div
School: Evocation (Admixture)
Feats: Spell Focus [Evocation](1st), Spell Specialization(3rd), Varisian tattoo(5th), Intensified Spell [Metamagic](7th), Greater Spell Specilization(9th), Selective Spell [Metamagic](11th), Piercing Spell [Metamagic](13th), Spell Perfection(15th)
Suggested Feats: Greater Spell Focus, Empower Spell, Improved Familiar, Improved initiative, Dazing Spell, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Quicken Spell, Bloatmage Initiate, Victory Through Unity

If there are cleric spells you want, then take the prestige class Pathfinder Savant. It lets you pilfer spells from other classes, arguably this is better for non-wizards so they can get wizard spells, but wizards can benefit from it, it's just harder to find non-wizard spells worth taking.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Mystic Theurge's primary problem is its low-level valley of suck, and it's a perfectly solid choice for high-level play. The traditional theurge build really matures at 12th level when it gains access to 5th level spells in both arcane and divine casting. This is where its advantage in spell slots and spell lists begins to compensate for the loss in spell level. The power increase from going to 5th to 6th level spells just isn't as big a jump as 2nd to 3rd, or 3rd to 4th. This is where the Theurge really starts to shine.

Given he's starting as a 9th level character, he's in that borderline range where Mystic Theurge is playable, but still quite bad. If he's going to be advancing to higher levels and is willing to suffer through some mediocrity to get there it's a tenable selection.

With that said, blasting is just a no-go for Mystic Theurge. Neither Wizard or Cleric are particularly strong blasting classes to begin with, and losing caster level just makes the whole thing a lost cause. You also have an issue with traits. Mystic Theurges desperately want Magical Knack to reclaim some of that lost caster level, but blasters desperately want Magical Lineage to make metamagic more affordable. They're both magic traits so they're mutually incompatible. If you can convince your GM to let you take the Wayang Spellhunter trait then you can take that with Magical Knack, but that comes from an incredibly obscure source and requires a really specific regional background and doesn't solve the other problems.

Meirril wrote:
Third, you don't qualify for the Harbinger Archon either, that requires arcane CL 7 and you're only CL 6. There are improved familiars that only require CL 3 so you can take the feat, just not that choice.

Magical Knack solves that problem, at very least.

LordKailas wrote:
What meirril has stated is correct. MT isn't great because you give up spell progression. There is a work around that makes it some what tenable. If you take 7 levels in wizard you can grab the arcane discovery faith magic. Pick any 2nd level divine spell and you now meet the pre-requisites for mystic theurge. Now you take 1 level in whatever divine class you want and you can start taking levels in mystic theurge.

This is an excellent option. It's very slow to get the divine side rolling, but the arcane side won't suffer very much at all.


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Dasrak wrote:


With that said, blasting is just a no-go for Mystic Theurge. Neither Wizard or Cleric are particularly strong blasting classes to begin with, and losing caster level just makes the whole thing a lost cause. You also have an issue with traits. Mystic Theurges desperately want Magical Knack to reclaim some of that lost caster level, but blasters desperately want Magical Lineage to make metamagic more affordable. They're both magic traits so they're mutually incompatible. If you can convince your GM to let you take the Wayang Spellhunter trait then you can take that with Magical Knack, but that comes from an incredibly obscure source and requires a really specific regional background and doesn't solve the other problems.

If I ever went to Minata I'd expect to find half the population are vacationing Wayang hunting sorcerers.


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Mystic Theurge is a class that requires some permissive source material and good system knowledge to fully bear its potential. The permissive source material I am referring to is using the guild rules for the Kintargo Opera House. If you can convince your DM to allow that, and you can be a guild master when you start at level 9 (or ex-guild master), then you can make up three levels of casting on one side and one on the other. Combine that with Half-Elf racial trait (Multidisciplined), the half-elf race trait (Bifurcated Magic), and the magic trait (Magical Knack), you should have zero problem reaching a caster level equal to your character level on each side.

I've got a build that combines Shaman, Sorcerer, Stargazer, and Mystic Theurge that gets 9th level casting on both sides by level 20. Its not LAWFUL Good, but it can be Neutral Good. It requires the worship of a chaotic good deity. Let me know if you are interested and I can get you a level break down. My use of Shaman and Sorcerer just comes down to personal preference, as I enjoy the spontaneous spells of the Sorcerer (and extra spell slots) and the versatility of Shaman hexes.


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The way DM's talking this isn't set on Golarion and the generic version of wayang spellhunter i.e. metamagic master may be the relevant trait. Which means that his go-to blasting spell can be Burning Arc, which has the advantage of being a 2nd level spell so a little metamagic can be squeezed in.

5 feats remaining. I might choose burning amplification, persistent spell, sacred summons, spell focus (evocation) and spell specialization (burning arc). With magical knack and spell specialization his top attack spell can do 10d6 to the primary target (5d6, 2d6 and 1d6 to secondary targets), can set those who fail their saves on fire, and the saves have to be rolled twice and the lowest result taken. If the wizard has the admixture subschool then he has the option of using non-fire damage though of course that also removes the possibility of setting people on fire. Sacred summons means he can pop out a lantern archon or two as standard actions when necessary; more summoning feats would be nice but not affordable yet on a blaster.

Remember that clerics can cast burst of radiance if he wants to debuff - it's a 2nd level spell so shouldn't interfere with spell slots needed for lantern archon summoning. Light-themed too.

Preparing a couple of burning disarms and using burning amplification with them is nasty, if not especially effective on damage at this level.

Scarab Sages

The first thing you should do is talk to your gm about adjusting the entry requirements. The old early entry stuff made the MT a much more playable class.

Wizard 3/cleric 1/MT 10 - You can also ask if, once you reach that point, you can extend the MT prestige class using the book guidelines to continue boosting spellcasting from both classes.

If you can gain access to magic schools for eclectic and esoteric training, that also works.

If you can get BOTH of them, then you can also afford to level dip into sorcerer for the blasting damage boosts.

Archetypes are a strong consideration, given that you're getting limited access to the higher level school stuff. Admixture is still good for the damage flexibility. If you're hardcore dedicated to blasting, see if you can combine Thassilonian specialist with the admixture school.

Alternatives might be the spell sage for that 1/day +4 to caster level (more useful if you can leverage it with spell storing items), exploiter wizard with the HH pact wizard (you'll get an exploit, which will allow you to spend feats for more exploits. school understanding nets you admixture again, while you can use potent to increase your dc or caster level, and fiendish proboscis to never run out of pool points. you can also use pact wizard to net you a hex by selecting a specific patron, and get some spontaneous casting of patron spells for more flexibility).

Cleric is going to suffer a bit more from the lost of class feature progression. Look into channel foci to see if there's some alternate use for your channel energies that you might want to use. Separatist would allow you to pick and choose your preferred domains. Theologian allows you to prepare domain spells in non-domain slots - which might save you on some spell levels.

Some of the variant channels have neat effects that would still be useful too, so make sure you go over those.

Sadly though, without getting into mystic theurge earlier, or reducing the lost caster levels through magic schools, you'd do much better blasting as a sorc 1/exploiter wizard 19 or as a sorc 20.

Blasters run by boosting caster levels up, boosting dc's up, and adding more damage for every dice roll. Mystic theurge, with fewer feats and dc boosting special abilities, is going to fall behind in comparison.

And, sadly, being three spell levels behind in both classes also means you're not getting quite the mileage out of spells that you'd like.

At 9th level, you're casting as a wizard 6/cleric 6.

That means from wizard you're getting 4 cantrips, 3 1st level spells, 3 2nd level spells, and 2 3rd level spells. School specialization gives you 1 extra spell per level dependent on archetype, and thassilonian knocks that up potentially to 2.

Cleric gives you 4 orisons, 3 1st level spells, 3 2nd level spells, and 2 3rd level spells, with an extra spell slot per spell level dependent on whether you're taking an archetype that removes it or not.

In total, you're looking at 8 cantrips/orisons, 6 to 9 1st level spells, 6 to 9 2nd level spells, and 4 to 7 third level spells.

Straight wizard would net you 4 cantrips, 4 to 6 1st level spells, 4 to 6 2nd level spells, 3 to 5 third level spells, 2 to 4 fourth level spells, and 1 to 3 5th level spells.

Just adding them up, and discounting cantrips which are mostly irrelevant from a blaster point of view, MT is netting you 16 to 25 spells capped at 3rd level. Straight wizard nets you 14 to 24 spells capped at 5th level.

That, of course, doesn't factor in the differences between having one, or two, casting stats to allocate stat points to and spend money boosting. But you can see that the wizard is between 1 and 2 spells behind, but has access to two more spell levels than the MT. That's a lot of extra power on the wizard side.


Everyone already said it, but I'll dogpile with my two coppers.

If you want to blast, MT is not the way to do it. Instead, I'd recommend going with an Orc or Draconic bloodline Sorcerer and pick up Blood Havoc in place of your lvl 3 or 9 bloodline power. If you're not keen on Sorc, Exploiter Wizard or Arcanist are also pretty good at blasting because they get Potent Magic (+2 CL or DC on the fly). Regardless of what class you choose, pick up Empower Spell, Quicken Spell(at lvl 9), Heighten Spell, and Preferred Spell so you can pump your blaster spell with any MM you have on the fly and without increasing your casting time-- this allows you to make a Quickened Cast as a swift, a fully pumped Blaster spell as a Standard, and still allows for a move action, making you much, much more mobile/survivable with Haste/Fly active.

MTs really shine at the later levels because they have a metric crapton of utility but they are not good defeating enemy Saves, like, ever. MTs are more like "background" casters and are especially good at buffing, healing, and solving out-of-combat problems.


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Another option that gets you both arcane and divine spells in all but name is Witch. If you choose the Elements Patron you can even be not too shabby at blasting. Alternatively, if you want to concentrate more on the divine side but want to keep some (non-optimal but serviceable) blasting versatility, you could choose the Healing Patron so as not to be missing out on some bad status removal spells that aren't on the core Witch spell list, but then go VMC Wizard(Evoker(Admixturer)) to be able to change the elemental type of some of the remaining blasting spells that are on the Witch spell list without the Elements Patron. Witch has the added benefit that Hexes give you something useful to do when you need to conserve spells (or wish you had).

Shaman can also be used similarly to Witch; it feels not as user-friendly to me, but on the other hand with 3/4 BAB instead of 1/2 BAB, and no penalty from wearing armor with which you are proficient (and you get shields and light and medium armor free), you can add the ability to mix it up in battle (although this will make you really MAD).


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As UAE says, a shaman could definitely do the same role - and be stronger at it. Flame spirit as your main & take heavens as your wandering spirit will cover you for both fire and light. You can be a stronger blaster than the one I worked up above without the spell focus/spell spec. feats, just cast fireball with burning amplification and maybe persistent spell. This leaves you feats free for SF (conj.) and augment summoning. You can add burst of radiance to your spell list via an alternate racial favored class bonus. The flame spirit hexes add flavour mainly but flame curse will work well on 'hard' (fire resistant) targets.


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A Samsaran Ecclesitheurge cleric of a GOO or OG and take Dreamed Secrets....

Use the Hunter or Inquisitor list for the Samsaran spells

Job done


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Okay, a lot of good commentary here. Thanks everyone. Time doesn't allow replying to every post, but I read them all and am thinking hard.

Let's take it from the top. Yah, I wrote the OP fast and sloppy. A 9th level Mystic Theurge would cast like 6/6, and you can't have a Lantern Archon as a familiar. Next, this character is an NPC who may or may not become recurring. He's intended as a frenemy for a group of CG / CN player characters. They may have to work with him at first; it's TBD whether that will turn into alliance or antagonism or what.

Since he's an NPC, he doesn't have to be optimized. So it's okay if he's a straight Mystic Theurge. Yes, I could get a more powerful character playing a Witch with the Dimensions patron or whatever. For in-game reasons, Mystic Theurge is a better fit. This guy is a follower of Ragathiel (or whoever) who started as a cleric but whose devotion burned so hot that he turned to the mystic arts in order to better destroy evil with cleansing fire. He's a bit of a local legend and that's going to be a thing.

I do want a character who fits within the rules -- that's half the fun -- and I do want him to be thematic. More in a bit --

Doug M.


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Okay, second attempt.

Human, 10th level Mystic Theurge, Wiz 3, Cleric 3, Mystic Theurge 4. That's fixed, okay? Just roll with it. Middle age means his casting stats can be at least okay. Casts like a Clr 7 / Wiz 7. Let's say he has Magical Knack on the Wizard side, so wizard ECL is 9.

Going to give him a Lantern Archon through the Leadership feat. I think the Archon will pick up a couple of PC levels as a result. Hard to say what would work well here. Maybe fighter or ranger for feats, so it can zap harder with its laser? Anyway, he thinks the archon is there because Heaven has blessed his cause. Half right. The archon is also there to keep an eye on him, because he's kind of arrogant and can get carried away with the blasting sometimes. The archon has (so far) been able to whisper in his ear, calm him down, and keep him from getting carried away.

If playing solo, his preferred tactics include invisibility to get time to buff; then lots of buffing; then Summon Monster IV for meat shields, followed by blasting. (We all agree that he won't blast as well as a dedicated blaster. But let's make him the best blaster he can be!) If things go horribly wrong he has Dim Door. If playing with a group he'll keep Breath of Resurrection prepped -- lawful means team player!

Anyway. Given these constraints -- what then?

Doug M.


For somebody starting as a divine caster, if you are willing to substitute Shaman or Spirit Guide Oracle(*) for Cleric and willing to be MAD enough, you could get arcane spells through the Arcane Enlightenment Hex of the Lore Spirit.

(*)Spirit Guide Oracle would be less MAD than Shaman, but due to restrictive wording of the Arcane Enlightenment Hex of the Lore Spirit some debate exists on whether this actually works for a Spirit Guide Oracle or is just a trap.

If you insist on Mystic Theurge, Equipment Trick (Sunrod) says "Like the Sun (ability to cast any spell with the light descriptor): You can use a sunrod as an additional material component for any spell that bears the light descriptor. The spell is treated as one spell level higher (to a maximum of 9th level) for all purposes, including the calculation of saving throw DCs and its ability to overcome sources of magical darkness." Since this hasn't yet been ErrataNerfBatted, you are technically within the rules to use this to get early entry for either or even both of your Mystic Theurge classes. It would make especial thematic sense for a devotee of Sarenrae, but could also work for Ragathiel.


doc roc wrote:

A Samsaran Ecclesitheurge cleric of a GOO or OG and take Dreamed Secrets....

Use the Hunter or Inquisitor list for the Samsaran spells

Job done

LOL.... Whoops.... didnt see the bit that had the LG requirement!

With my idea you could push it to CG but thats about it!

Feel free to ignore completely!


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Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

Okay, second attempt.

TXT:

Human, 10th level Mystic Theurge, Wiz 3, Cleric 3, Mystic Theurge 4. That's fixed, okay? Just roll with it. Middle age means his casting stats can be at least okay. Casts like a Clr 7 / Wiz 7. Let's say he has Magical Knack on the Wizard side, so wizard ECL is 9.

Going to give him a Lantern Archon through the Leadership feat. I think the Archon will pick up a couple of PC levels as a result. Hard to say what would work well here. Maybe fighter or ranger for feats, so it can zap harder with its laser? Anyway, he thinks the archon is there because Heaven has blessed his cause. Half right. The archon is also there to keep an eye on him, because he's kind of arrogant and can get carried away with the blasting sometimes. The archon has (so far) been able to whisper in his ear, calm him down, and keep him from getting carried away.

If playing solo, his preferred tactics include invisibility to get time to buff; then lots of buffing; then Summon Monster IV for meat shields, followed by blasting. (We all agree that he won't blast as well as a dedicated blaster. But let's make him the best blaster he can be!) If things go horribly wrong he has Dim Door. If playing with a group he'll keep Breath of Resurrection prepped -- lawful means team player!

Anyway. Given these constraints -- what then?

Doug M.

If you can or are allowed, the can make him Apprentice 1/ Cleric 2/ wizard 2/ MT5.

The Apprenctice class (only 1 lvl avialable, found HERE) can provide 1 CL for both cleric and wizard, so you can get MT 1 lvl earlier. I've made my own NPC Mystic Theurge for story purposses, albeit a CG Ratfolk MT, he's a shopkeerer who can make most things himself, but also has a major Intelligence bureau running (with small mice as his spies), so he can provide the party with info and gear


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Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

Okay, second attempt.

Human, 10th level Mystic Theurge, Wiz 3, Cleric 3, Mystic Theurge 4. That's fixed, okay? Just roll with it. Middle age means his casting stats can be at least okay. Casts like a Clr 7 / Wiz 7. Let's say he has Magical Knack on the Wizard side, so wizard ECL is 9.

Going to give him a Lantern Archon through the Leadership feat. I think the Archon will pick up a couple of PC levels as a result. Hard to say what would work well here. Maybe fighter or ranger for feats, so it can zap harder with its laser? Anyway, he thinks the archon is there because Heaven has blessed his cause. Half right. The archon is also there to keep an eye on him, because he's kind of arrogant and can get carried away with the blasting sometimes. The archon has (so far) been able to whisper in his ear, calm him down, and keep him from getting carried away.

If playing solo, his preferred tactics include invisibility to get time to buff; then lots of buffing; then Summon Monster IV for meat shields, followed by blasting. (We all agree that he won't blast as well as a dedicated blaster. But let's make him the best blaster he can be!) If things go horribly wrong he has Dim Door. If playing with a group he'll keep Breath of Resurrection prepped -- lawful means team player!

Anyway. Given these constraints -- what then?

Doug M.

Since he's an NPC 3/3/4 MT should be fine. It ensures that he won't outshine any of the PC casters. Maybe an elemental build would work

Fire Starter (Cleric/Wizard)

Spoiler:

Key concepts: High fire damage output for level
Race: Gnome
Racial Traits: Pyromaniac
Traits: Magical Lineage [Fireball] or Wayang Spellhunter[Fireball]
Archetype(s): Theologian (Cleric)
Variant Channel: Fire (harm, now causes creatures that fail their save to catch fire)
Domain: Fire
School: Fire
Feats: Spell Focus [Evocation](1st), Spell Specialization(3rd), Varisian tattoo(5th), Intensified Spell [Metamagic](7th), Greater Spell Specilization(9th), Selective Spell [Metamagic](11th), Piercing Spell [Metamagic](13th), Spell Perfection(15th)
Suggested Feats: Flumefire Rage, Intensified Spell-Like Ability, Burning Spell (Metamagic), Elemental Spell (Metamagic), Quicken Spell (Metamagic), Selective Channel, Bloatmage Initiate
Magic Items: Blazing Robe, Blazing Eyes, Cord of Stubborn Resolve
Key Features: pryromanic+Varisian tattoo+blazing robe means he would be CL 10 for any evocation fire spells he casts. Spell spec would let you push any specific evocation fire spell by another 2 levels. So, an intensified specialized fireball would be a 3rd level spell that does 12d6 dmg thanks to magical lineage.

as for the lantern archon, slayer might make a good choice just because the class is fairly straightforward. It could study the enemy and then blast away. It could even use sniping tactics to get it's sneak attack.

Scarab Sages

Welp, he'll want a lot of the same things as a standard blaster. Zenith guide to guides has some wizard guides there, specifically blockbuster, that might be worth a read.

Pretty much you want to pick a spell 3rd level or lower, preferably aoe (fireball is popular for this, of course), apply wayang spell hunter and magical lineage to it. Then focus on building around spell perfection.

This means feats like spell focus/greater, elemental focus/greater, spell penetration/greater, spell specialization, and similar feats that add a bonus that would apply to spell perfection. You may also like greater spell specialization if you want to prep other things but still have your goto blasting spell available.

You'll also want some metamagic feats to get the most out of your specific spell. Intensify, empower, echoing, quicken, dazing, and persistent are all good choices to consider.

Really, you're going to be very hungry for feats for a while.

You want your wizard to be an exploiter wizard with at least the potent exploit and the school study exploit in admixture so you can switch elements on your specific spell as needed, and if possible the fiendish proboscis so you can apply the dc or caster level bonus on all your blasting spells. More feats though.

On the cleric side, you're probably looking at theologian with a domain containing your preferred spell so that you don't have to rely on trading spell slots in order to prepare it. That level adjustment from MT can be costly when you only have 3rd level spell slots.

Your channel is going to be of negligible benefit as a source of healing. Some potentially useful variants are disease for that slow ability score healing, self-perfection (ignoring a temporary condition can be clutch at times for a group) and maybe a few others if you grabbed quicken or selective channel (even more feats though).

Or you could look for another archetype to stack onto theologian that would replace channel with something more useful.

Now, at level 20, you're probably looking at casting as a 13th level cleric and a 17th level wizard. That JUST nets you 9th level spells by 20th level. However, if you're not going to reach level 20 then you might consider taking a level of crossblooded sorcerer once you've finished out mystic theurge. It's another caster level loss, but by that level you'll be adding a significant amount of damage from it.

But that's more or less the direction I'd go with a cleric/wizard blaster under the assumption that the lost caster levels would be unrecoverable.


DeathlessOne wrote:

Mystic Theurge is a class that requires some permissive source material and good system knowledge to fully bear its potential. The permissive source material I am referring to is using the guild rules for the Kintargo Opera House. If you can convince your DM to allow that, and you can be a guild master when you start at level 9 (or ex-guild master), then you can make up three levels of casting on one side and one on the other. Combine that with Half-Elf racial trait (Multidisciplined), the half-elf race trait (Bifurcated Magic), and the magic trait (Magical Knack), you should have zero problem reaching a caster level equal to your character level on each side.

I've got a build that combines Shaman, Sorcerer, Stargazer, and Mystic Theurge that gets 9th level casting on both sides by level 20. Its not LAWFUL Good, but it can be Neutral Good. It requires the worship of a chaotic good deity. Let me know if you are interested and I can get you a level break down. My use of Shaman and Sorcerer just comes down to personal preference, as I enjoy the spontaneous spells of the Sorcerer (and extra spell slots) and the versatility of Shaman hexes.

I am interested in your Shaman/Sorcerer build.


Me too. I am very interested in this build.


I'll send it to you, Roycilo. I PM'ed it to Voodist a while ago. Though, I do have to make a correction. Getting 9th level casting is possible with two prepared casters. Using the sorcerer will get you ALMOST there, just one effective level under.


Some ideas for advancing the Archon:

Cleric seems like a natural fit. But that is a duplication of what the MT does so not really beneficial.

Kineticis fits with the beam ability of a Lantern Archon. Wood element has positive blast already, though its slightly different than what the Lantern Archon's natural attack would do. Honestly I'd just chock it up to being what it is and let the dice of damage increase for every 2 levels of Kineticist and withhold the ability to alter the blast more than the base creatures 2 blasts as a standard action. Not having to worry about burn would help save book keeping too. As a GM I don't need a lot more accounting work in the middle of a fight.

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