Well, I think I'm giving up on making the Flash in Pathfinder. I simply can't figure out a decent way to get his speed up to snuff and have him still be able to fight. There might be a way, but I can't see it.
So I'm moving on to making the next superhero on my list. I'm thinking either Spider-Man or the Hulk.
Spider-Man will have at least one level of Vigilante but other than that I'm not sure what to do to build him. Hulk seems like a half-orc Alchemist/Barbarian.
Anyone have any ideas?
For the flash, you might want to make a bloodrager/UCmonk with mythic tiers.
Bloodrager gives you +10 feet movement, UCmonk gives an enhancement bonus to movement up to +60ft at lvl 18. Since he's a Hero, he is obviously Mythic and give him the Impossible Speed path ability (+30ft). At the expance of a mythic power, his base land speed increases by an additional 10ft/mythic tier.
So in total, his movement increases with:
+10ft. (Bloodrager)
+10/+60ft. enhancement (UCmonk)
+30ft. (Impossible speed, Mythic path ability)
+10ft./tier (Mythic tiers)
Results in a minimum speed of +60ft at lvl4 (1BR/3UCM/ MT1) for a total of 90ft (single)movement, that is trice as hard as a normal person.
The maximum movement is 230ft (single) movement at lvl19 (1BR/18UMC/ MT10). That is 7 2/3 times as hard as a normal person! I know it's nohwere near the actual speeds of the Fresh, but it is still pretty fast if you ask me.
230ft per ~2.5 seconds (action economy) is a rough 92ft/sec, and since I'm not American, I'll convert this to m/s, which is a whooping ~28 m/s, resulting in a speed of 100.8 km/h. Pretty darrrrn fast for a human.
Re: Flash
He is fast and punches people. Right?
I think it's more important to make a build that uses that movement to their benefit in combat, rather than having 200 ft movement but still relying on the old five-foot-full-attack routine.
You want Wis 15 for Panther Claw, so I'd start out with at least 14 and buy a Headband or use the 4th level increase.
I'd also dump charisma, even though Dancing Dodge is charisma-based. The best part of that ability is the ability to disrupt full-attacks, not the Dodge Bonus.
Class levels and Feats
Brawler 1-2
1 Feat, Feat, IUS (B), Martial Flexibility
2 Combat Reflexes (B), Rolling Flurry
Monk 1
3 Feat, Punishing Kick (B), Panther Style (B), Fuse Styles
Brawler 3-8
4
5 Feat, Dancing Dodge
6 Panther Claw (B)
7 Combat Style Master
8
9 Pummeling Style, Pummeling Charge (B)
Tactic
So the idea is to charge past enemies, triggering Panther Style and getting retaliatory attacks. At the end of the charge, Pummeling Charge/Rolling Flurry allows you to move 5ft (without provoking) before each attack. In addition to being thematic, you can position yourself to avoid enemy attacks or make the next charge easier.
Also, Combat Style Master means you enter both styles as a free action.
In your toolkit, you've got Dancing Dodge to avoid full-attacks, and Punishing Kick to move people 5ft without a CMD check or Saving Throw.
You definitely want Boots of Speed, though.
Unused feat slots
Strength or Dexterity-based is a choice, but personally I'd rather go dex-based with some Agile Handwraps and pump up my AC since we're using Panther Style.
Weapon Finesse, Piranha Strike, Dodge, and Mobility.
Martial Flexibility
In addition to the usual ones to keep in mind, there are two feats which would be thrifty for this build.
Weapon Trick (Stylish Riposte):
Enemies provoke AoOs if they miss you by five or more, which they should do quite often with Mobility. It's a good way to use all those AoOs you've been given from Combat Reflexes, although it would force you to use a Buckler instead of a Heavy Shield.
Equipment Trick (Sharp Veer):
You can make a 90-degree turn when charging, helping you reach more enemies in a turn.
Where to take the build
I'd take at least two levels of Id Urban Bloodrager after this. Fast Movement and Uncanny Dodge is needed, while the Dutiful Strike ability of the Dedication focus has great synergy with Panther Style.
If we use the Furious enchantment instead of simply adding another +1 to our handwraps, that first level gives us +5/+6.5 to attack/damage.
***
You'll run across the battlefield, attacking everyone you pass, and end your turn by circling around a charged enemy while making attacks after each 5 ft moved.
I think the best representation of the Flash for the mechanics is dimension door and the dimensional agility feat lines and haste.
The Flash is so fast the no regular movement in Pathfinder is going to be able to approximate it.
I believe the Wildsoul vigilante archetype was designed with Spiderman in mind.
I agree that the Dimensional Savant feat chain is the best option for a Flash character.
As for Spiderman. That particular Vigilante archetype is pretty perfect for Spidey. I might start with 4 levels of UC Rogue using the Pirate and Scout archetypes together, so that you can make use of your environment to not charge in a straight line. And you would get a little bit of Sneak Attack damage on your charge, just to round it out.
The Pirate archetype describes it as grabbing the mast lines to redirect your charge, but for Spidey it is his webs changing his momentum and redirecting his charge, obviously.
Get Dexterity to damage and Sneak Attack damage on your charge, plus the ability to change the direction of your charge out of the way first. It's like Petey Parker realizing that he has powers.
Then go Vigilante. He understands now what he wants to do with his powers, and he puts on the mask to go fight bad guys...
I will keep all that in mind.
I considered the quickling but have no idea how to adapt it to be a PC.
The old rules were something like take the CR and use that as the level of the initial creature, then add class levels on that. d20pfsrd has them here.
For a spiderman build, you could base around something like this :
2 lvls of Vigilante to get the Roof climber Talent. This takes care of the wall crawler part.
X lvls of Flowing Monk will give you the freakish reflexes of Spidey, unarmed strike, all your jumping needs and a way to reposition/trip your attackers before they get to you.
Web can be replicated using alchemical items like spidersacs and tanglefoot bags.
I guess a case could probably be made for Investigator too - Peter Parker is a reporter/photographer and scientist after all, it would make sense to give him levels in an Intelligence based class. Empiricist woukd be great. Off course, Mutagen, alchemy and studied combat will all be welcome addition to such a character.
Spidey's going to be MAD as heck, isn't he? The only stat I can drop is Cha. He's got both super strength and super agility so I really can't drop either Dex or Str. He's also very smart, so that's Int there, and can't really drop Wis because a Monk needs it for AC. Ooh boy.
A monk needs Wis to AC. Spidey can manage with a very high Dex and a spidersilk suit or something like that. Enchanted off course.
That being said, Str and Dex will be your top priority indeed. Thing is though, Spidey never punch through anyone even though he technically got the strength to do it. Maybe find a way to get a permanent Ant Haul so you can lift very heavy but keep a reasonnable Str score.
True, but if I give him any levels of Monk, he'll lose most of the class abilities while wearing armor. Unless I give him Bracers of Armor.
Yup. Spider-Man is a MAD character.
And yeah, neither are going to be exactly like the comic versions. But I can get decently close.
Spidey's going to be MAD as heck, isn't he? The only stat I can drop is Cha. He's got both super strength and super agility so I really can't drop either Dex or Str. He's also very smart, so that's Int there, and can't really drop Wis because a Monk needs it for AC. Ooh boy.You do know that Spiderman is better known for his taunts and quips than his strength, right? A proper Spiderman build should have a high charisma.
About the only stat you can dump on Spiderman is wisdom. Peter Parker has done a lot of things he regrets later. Though his perception should be quite high. And he does learn from his mistakes so...maybe not a low wis either.
Most of Spiderman can be explained by giving him Boots of Striding and Leaping, and a set of gloves with Spider Climb. The actual web slinging is tougher. Wind Jump (monk ability) acts like web slinging, but a magic item that lets him do that plus web bolt several times per day would be better.
Using bruised intellect would allow Spiderman to bluff or intimidate using his Int score instead of Cha. With Empiricist levels, this would allow Cha and Wis to be kept low.
When converting superheroes to pathfinder, I always try to find an equivalent ability to the superpowers the character should have since it should not have to rely too much on specific items.
Looking back at it, if I was to make this character here's how I would split his levels: Vigilante 2 (avanger for the BAB)/Flowing Monk 5/ Investigator 5+. Stats array should be Dex>Int>Str=Con,Wis,Cha. With Flowing Monk archetype, a high Wis score is a little less important since you can get several ways to dodge incoming attacks with class abilities and feat choices.
@I am Nemesis : you really should try coming up with something on your own, or at least link to the original article. Neal's build are nice but they are quite old. There are tons of new feats, class abilities and spells that have been published since he posted this article.
It does seem like a decent build for Hulk. I will certainly check those classes out.
Monk seems to be the major consensus for Spider-Man, and several have suggested a couple levels of Rogue.
Does Pathfinder have a Fenton Thermos? I need to catch a ghost. lol
Slow weakness? What does that even mean?
Ok, still a little confused but I think I have the drift. I'm not sure I'll use a template since that seems to be an 'ask the GM' thing. Even with theory crafting, I want to try to stay away from that.
I am liking the look of Flowing Monk for Spider-Man. The Pirate Rogue looks decent too for moving around with 'webs.' Too bad it replaces Trap Finding and Trap Sense. There are other classes that have those, right? Because Trap Sense is a BIG thing for Spidey.
Ok, so I looked at Wildsoul Vigilante. The Arachnid abilities are very Spider-Man like. It's just too bad that they take so long to get online. Can't web-sling around until level 18 as a pure class. It does let him get the Stalker talent without being a stalker vigilante, which is nice. The Pirate Rogue archetype can move around in ropes and can use them to change direction for a charge. I can probably find an item to approximate web-slinging with this archetype without having to wait for level 18. However it does remove Trap Sense so I would have to find a way to replace that. Also, the Flowing Monk archetype gives him to do an immediate trip attack if he's attacked by an opponent he's already threatening. If I start with Vigilante and be an avenger, at level two he can take the talent that gives the Improved Unarmed Attack. When and if I take a level in Flowing Monk, I can then retrain that talent for something else.
So that's starting off with at least 2 levels of Wildsoul Vigilante, followed by 2 levels of Pirate Rogue. I'd take a third level if the archetype didn't trade out Trap Sense, but it does. Then 2 levels of Flowing Monk, followed by more Vigilante levels. After a while, I might take 2 more levels of Monk to trip an opponent that's attacking an adjacent ally.
I can't find the Bracers of Wands. I tried looking it up on Bing and found some articles for other games, but nothing for Pathfinder.
Ok.
I think you can dump cha for spiderman. Peter Parker was known as a shy kid. Spiderman talked a lot but he was more annoying than anything else.
I think you can dump cha for spiderman. Peter Parker was known as a shy kid. Spiderman talked a lot but he was more annoying than anything else.You don't pick up the types of babes Peter/Spidey picked up without a massive source of charisma just saying.
Spidey always ends up dropping his best babe, maybe he should have dropped Charisma instead?
I'm actually not fresh enough in my Spiderman dogma to engage in serious debate, sadly.
Just that scene with the web reaching out with little web fingers comes to mind.
I did mention that Cha can be dumped safely earlier in the thread.
I checked for any rules about swinging on a rope, and apparently there aren't any. So web swinging is going to be tough, RAW speaking. There's a trait that lets you use a whip as a rope with a grappling hook, but it's only 15 feet long.
There is a type of arrow that can be attached to a silk rope and fired from a bow. It's got a ranged increment of only 30 feet, but a building shouldn't be that hard to hit. And it's only one gold, so I can buy multiples if needed.
There is also the Crank Crossbow, which one level of Bolt Ace Gunslinger can get for free (other than the level of Gunslinger).
High movement speed, something akin to Abundant Step, obviously Spider Climb, stellar Initiative, the ability to change direction in a charge, and the ability to tie you up with ease...
Flowing or Tetori Monk, Pirate Rogue, Order of the Pentinent Cavalier, and the Vigilante archetype specifically designed to be Spiderman... it's a mess, but doable.
Acrobatic, Sea Legs, Skill Focus Acrobatics, Sliding Dash, Dodge, Mobility, Circling Mongoose, Spring Attack, and maybe Grapple feats. Equipment/Rope Trick?
Why the Cavalier?
The crank crossbow looks pretty nice, but seems a little action heavy. With the arrows, I could keep the rope in a coil on my hip already attached to the arrow. I'd just have to undo a strap and draw the arrow to fire. I could even have two ready, one on each hip.
Order of the Penitent Cavalier can hogtie people with the quickness:
Expert Captor (Ex)
At 2nd level, as long as he has rope, the cavalier can tie up a grappled opponent, even if the opponent is not pinned, otherwise restrained, or unconscious, and he does not take the usual –10 penalty on his combat maneuver check to do so. When determining the DC to escape bonds secured by the cavalier, the cavalier’s Combat Maneuver Bonus increases by 1/2 his cavalier level.
Order of the Penitent also vow nit to kill wrong doers and do all they can to bring them to justice unless there is no other way. That fits Spidey's way of doing things. On top of that, the Constable archetype meshes really well with an unarmed and grapple theme.
Edit : Wildsoul Archetype is not that great. I would stick to normal Vigilante and select the Rooftop Infiltrator Talent a 2nd lvl.
I will take a look at them.
In another thread, someone mentioned the PrC Master Chymist. I looked it up and it's pretty perfect for Hulk. Seriously. The mutagen form has its own personality and alignment and can be used at will without having to drink the mutagen. Sometimes it'll even come out without permission if you're stressed.
It requires third level extracts and either the feral or infuse mutagen discoveries. So that's 7 levels of Alchemist to qualify. The feral mutagen discovery might be better for the first one taken. Yes, the Hulk uses fists and not claws, but it would save on having to take Improved Unarmed Strike if I don't want to. I could add a couple of Barbarian levels here and there for the rage powers.
For race, I was thinking either human or half-orc. Both have advantages and disadvantages.
Yeah that prestige class is pretty much Hulk for Pathfinder. That or Venom... if you choose your Discoveries and Extracts carefully it fits quite well actually.
The next question is do I want gestalt or regular multiclass. The benefits of gestalt are obvious, but is it something it really needs? Can't get the PrC until level 8 and that's without multiclassing. Barbarian will slow that down depending on how many levels I take. But I don't want to wait until after I get the PrC to take Barbarian.
I can probably do Hulk without really needing gestalt, though it looks like Spider-Man will need it.
If I make a gestalt character, it's because the character needs the gestalt. If I join a game that doesn't allow gestalt, I'll just use a different character. Trust me, I have quite a few to choose from.
(That reminds me, actually finish my Dwarf Warpriest's sheet.)
Ok, so if I don't use gestalt for Hulk, which I don't really think he needs, I'm going to start with 2 levels of Alchemist. Then I'll follow it with 2 levels of Unchained Barbarian. There's a rage power that gives him the feat Improved Unarmed Strike while he's raging, but it ONLY works while raging. At level 2, that's 6+Con rounds. But a mutagen lasts for 10 minutes per level, which is a lot longer. Of course, neither lasts all day, either.
So at level 2 of Alchemist, I'm going to take the Feral Mutagen Discovery. It's needed for the PrC class and lasts longer than any rage power. And gives him 3 attacks rather than just one. I can give him a regular weapon for those few fights he won't have the natural attacks.
I'm not sure what rage power he should get though. The best ones require at least 6 levels of Barbarian to take. Raging Leaper is thematic as Hulk gets around by huge jumps. But do I really want a power that requires using a round of rage to jump somewhere? I'm also liking the look of Lesser Elemental Blood. 3 times a day while in a rage, I can add 1d6 damage of a single chosen energy. If I ever get him up to 10 levels of Barbarian, Fire gives the best pick for Greater Elemental Blood. And out of the energy types you can pick, it might be the closest to radiation.
|
So the hulk I made was a mutagenic brawler, invulnerable rager build. Mutagenic brawler gives the mutagen to boost str and also gives the brawlers unarmed attack. Inv barb gives the dr and rage powers. I also took eldritch guardian fighter for two levels and took a valet familiar to get amplified rage working. I took raging vitality for more con and not dying when I go unconscious. So I rage for 8 str and 10 con, mutagen for -2 int +4 str started with a 20str and at lv 6 had a +2str belt. So I had a 32 str, albeit for a limited time, at lv 6. Seems as hulk like as i could get.