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For spiderman mine was straight unchained monk, I dumped chr, a real spiderman would have mid 20's in every stat but that's just not possible, but still had max ranks in umd and took a trait that gave it as a class skill. Get two spring loaded wrist sheaths, one with web and on with web bolt. Slippers of spider climb, and I also had a wand of regular spider climb. I took the grappling feats and the dimensional dervish feats and for the ki powers I took abundant step and then ones that increased mobility. I just fluffed that the abundant step was him just web zipping to enemies and the one that let's monks fly as long as they could end their turn on the ground as his web swinging.

Grand Lodge

The flash should be an Aether Kineticist with Ride the Blast. It'll do electricity damage, not bludgeoning, but you do get to teleport huge distances in an instant.

my brain is going bonkers!


the Venom symbiot bonded with Dr. Bruce Bannor, aka; the Hulk?

Brawler might work though I like it more as a dip in this case than anything else.

I will definitely keep the wrist sheaths in mind, although I don't know how I'd shoot a spell with it. Putting a grappling arrow or little grappling hook might work though.

I am Nemesis wrote:

my brain is going bonkers!


the Venom symbiot bonded with Dr. Bruce Bannor, aka; the Hulk?

It has. In multiple different settings.

The Venom symbiote was even bonded with Red Hulk whilst Red Hulk had Ghost Rider's Spirit of Vengeance... try get that into Pathfinder without gestalt.

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Sheesh, what comic was THAT in?! A Ghost Rider Red Hulk Vemon? Sounds like a nightmare.

Heather 540 wrote:
Sheesh, what comic was THAT in?! A Ghost Rider Red Hulk Vemon? Sounds like a nightmare.

Circle of Four (2012)

I will look it up.

Meanwhile, back to rage powers. I did reconsider the one that gives Improved Unarmed Strike, but the feat doesn't improve the damage amount itself. It's still only 1d3 for a medium creature. If I take the feat, the rage power boosts it to 1d6, but I can do that with a basic club. Not really worth it. Heck, I can do better damage than basic Unarmed with a Cetus and have a better crit range to boot.

The rage power Intimidating Glare makes it so Str is used for the skill to demoralize a foe instead of Cha. And if the target is adjacent, it's a move action instead of a standard action so I'd still be able to attack it. And if the Intimidate roll is successful, the foe is shaken for the rest of my rage.

So, I'm still torn between using human and half-orc for Hulk. Benefits for a human are the bonus feat and an extra skill point every level. Benefits of using a half-orc are darkvision, +2 to Intimidate, and Orc Ferocity.

I think I'm going to take Intimidating Glare. It's either that or take the totem power that gives him claw attacks again for when the mutagen runs out.

Going back to the Alchemist Discoveries, I need to pick what I get at level 4 and 6. Bone-Spike Mutagen gives +2 Natural Armor. Lingering Spirit makes it so your Constitution is considered 10 points higher for determining when you die from taking hit point damage. Pheromones gives +3 to Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate. And finally, Spontaneous Healing lets him heal 5 HP as a free action at the start of a round. He can do this once for every 2 levels.

I'm looking at the traits for Hulk now. I'm going to list them in their categories.

Berserker of the Society gives an extra 3 rounds of rage, but it requires starting as a barbarian.
Bloody Minded: +1 to Initiative and Intimidate.
Reactionary: +2 to Initiative.

Fate's Favored: Increase all luck bonuses by +1. (This will be more considered if I go with Half-Orc and Sacred Tattoo.)
Indomitable Faith: +1 to Will.

Alchemical Adept: +2 to Craft Alchemy to create alchemical items and only ruin materials on a Nat one.
Enduring Mutagen: Effects of your mutagens last for +1 minute per level.

Artisan: +2 to single Craft skill.
Bruising Intellect: Can use Int instead of Cha for Intimidate, which is a class skill. (Can replace possible choice of rage power.)

I'm still looking through them (got to the H in Social), but I'm going to post this so I don't lose what I've typed. I can post more later.

Top Four for Alchemist:
combat - Reactionary
faith - Fate's Favored
magic- Enduring Mutagen
social - Bruising Intellect

What's wrong with Hulk starting with a level of Urban Barbarian? Followed by a bunch of levels in Beastmorph Alchemist...

Then you can take Berserker of Society and Enduring Mutagen.

Nothing's really wrong with it. It's just what I would have to do if I took that trait.

are you still working on spidey & hulk? i'm looking for inspiration more Hero PC creations. Thoughts? Challenges?

Yes, though I put them on the back-burner for a little bit to finish some earlier characters that never got completed.

Well, as a challenge, you could try doing Iron Man.

I pulled this one in another thread, behold;

The Invincible Iron Golem Man::

Attributes and Race
When it comes to your Iron Golem Man the primary attribute is going to be whatever you need as a caster. If you want to make him a sorcerer then you need a high charisma, but if you'd rather make him a wizard or a magus then you're going to want intelligence as your primary attribute. While charming and handsome, it's important to remember that Tony Stark is also a genius, so it can go either way. Dexterity and wisdom should be considerations for second tier scores, with strength likely coming in toward the bottom of the list. Tony might have average strength, but it's his armor that turns him into a titan.

For those who want to keep this build as close to the comics as possible it's a good idea to leave Tony as a human. However there are benefits to making him an elf (intelligence bumps for magi and wizards), but it's also possible to make the build work with half elves. Or even half orcs. Human is still the best bet though, and the one we'll be using from this point onward.

Your Iron Golem Man starts with two traits just like everyone else. Since he (or she) is likely going to be focused on crafting items of great power it's important to pick traits that will help in that regard.

Magic Crafter provides a +1 on appraise checks, and provides a +1 on any craft check used to make a magic item. That's a pretty good start. Then again Spark of Creation, which provides a +1 on all craft checks and reduces the cost of any magic item you make by 5% is also a good choice. Traits that fit the character's persona also include Avid Reader, which allows you to take 10 on a selected knowledge skill even when threatened, or Bruising Intellect, which allows you to make intimidate checks using your intelligence modifier and which makes intimidate a class skill for you, are also useful.

As previously mentioned it's possible to play Iron Golem Man as a sorcerer, magus, or wizard. For this particular build we're going to use a Universalist wizard whose bonded item is an amulet (which may or may not need to be inset into his chest to save his life at some later date).

When it comes to your spell selection it's important to learn as many as possible, but judging from how Tony acts outside of his armor (see Iron Man 3 when he assaults the villain's compound) you're going to be preparing a lot of evocation spells. It's probably a good idea to prepare plenty of abjuration spells as well, so that your squishy, unarmored self lives to build the item that grants him his namesake.

As a human wizard your Iron Golem Man will have an absolute minimum of 3 skill ranks (2 for the class, and 1 for being human). Given that intelligence is the major casting stat, we're going to assume a minimum of a +4 bonus, allowing for 7 skill ranks per level.

The skills you're going to want are craft (armor), spellcraft, knowledge (arcana), Linguistics, knowledge (planes), craft (sculpture), craft (siege engine). Additional skills like use magic device are helpful, particularly if you decide to take the trait Dangerously Curious which makes use magic device a class skill and provides you a +1 on all checks with the skill.

As with many character builds the meat of the power comes from the feats (and in this case what the feats and spells combine to let you create). All wizards start with Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat, but there are some others that your Iron Golem Man should have. The necessities are:

Craft Magic Arms and Armor (Core Rule Book 120): You can craft and repair magic weapons and armor. Requires you to be a 5th level caster, and may be taken as a 5th level bonus feat.

Craft Wondrous Item (Core Rule Book 120): You can craft and repair wondrous items. Requires you to be a 3rd level caster, and should be taken as your 3rd level feat.

Craft Construct (Bestiary): You may craft and repair constructs. Requires character to be a 5th level caster, and can be taken as your 5th level feat.

Arcane Armor Training (Core Rule Book 118): As a swift action reduce the arcane spell failure chance for any armor worn by 10% for a single round. This requires light armor proficiency, and a 3rd level caster.

Arcane Armor Mastery (Core Rule Book 118): As a swift action reduce the arcane spell failure chance for any armor worn by 20% for a single round. Requires medium armor proficiency and a 7th level caster.

(Note: Arcane armor training and mastery are easier if players take a single level of a martial class like fighter, or they can be ignored altogether when using a magus instead of a wizard.)

Other feats that you'll find useful for your Iron Golem Man build are:

Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot (Core Rule Book 131): Provides a +1 to hit and damage for ranged attacks within 30 feet, and allows the character to ignore the -4 for firing into melee respectively.

Skill Focus (Core Rule Book 134): Provides a +3 bonus on a skill, and a +6 bonus after a character has 10 ranks in that skill.

Magical Aptitude (Core Rule Book 130): Provides a +2 on spellcraft and use magic device checks, and a +4 bonus after a character has 10 or more ranks in the skill.

Suit Up!
Once you have the ability to craft constructs then you have the ability to start creating your Iron Golem Man armor. We're not talking just any old run of the mill +1 or +2 armor that gives you the look of the iconic character either; we're talking a full on comic book replica.

The secret to this is on page 114 of Ultimate Magic. When you have a construct of your size you can modify it so that it becomes construct armor. This adds 35,000 gold to the cost, and +1 to the CR of the construct, but it allows the creator to wear it as armor. The construct armor is considered to be a breastplate, and it takes a full-round to don if it's functional. The armor may be ordered to release the wearer as a swift action if it's still functional, stepping into an adjacent square. All attacks on the wearer first target the armor, and it takes no independent actions, instead allowing the wearer to control it and all of its abilities (whatever those may be). When not being worn the construct can be directed just as any other generic construct of its type.

But What Will You Wear?
When it comes to what constructs you're going to modify for your armor there are a plethora of options in the bestiary. For the most genuine feel a medium-sized iron golem is tough to beat (though it requires a 16th level caster). For those who want a lower chance of arcane failure a mithral golem (which requires an 18th level caster) is a solid bet. Of course when it comes to sheer firepower or brute determination a cannon golem or an adamantine golem are terrifying sights to behold.

Golems aren't easy to build, I'll grant. They have a slew of skills and spells that you have to have access to, they're expensive, and if you want to add modifications like the ability to fly or intelligence they're even more ridiculously over-priced. There's a reason that people who aren't billionaire playboys don't have these suits in their closets. However, golems are immune to most spells (which will target the armor first), and they can often be healed by certain kinds of energy damage. They're tough, hard-hitting, and will buy your man in the can plenty of time to slug it out with whatever big bads come his way.

Lastly, remember this; all of the necessities with the exception of the item creation feat can be ignored, with a +5 added to the DC for every spell or skill that the crafter lacks. Fortunately, being a universalist wizard, all it takes is a scroll of a spell if the wizard doesn't have it to learn it and use it to create a construct. Choose which kind of constructs you intend to turn into construct armor early on though so you can make absolutely certain that you have the skills and spells you need to make the craft DC as easy to reach as possible.

but avr said:

avr wrote:
Object possession will be a lot easier than construct armor. There's a thread about using it to be a mecha pilot somewhere in this forum.

i would like to see that build but i could not find the mecha pilot thread

That's pretty detailed and well thought out.

Heather 540 wrote:
That's pretty detailed and well thought out.

credit goes to Neal Litherland. he did alot of great builds several years ago. i still base alot of my builds off of his work.


Ok, I've decided to come back to this as the rest of my characters that need finishing really need rebuilding. And I want to do this one first.

I really wish that I could take two traits from the same category. I like both the Enduring Mutagen and Alchemical Adept a lot. I think I'll go with Enduring Mutagen though. It's say one additional minute per level. Not one additional minute, but one additional minute per level. That's pretty handy.

For the other trait, I think I'll go with Reactionary. Gotta go first so he can drink that mutagen and start swinging.

I'm also thinking of using the Ragechemist archetype. It fits the theme, only loses poison which I wouldn't be using anyway, and gives decent enough bonuses to Str, natural armor, and even Con if I go up to ten levels of Alchemist.

So I think I'm going to take 8 levels of Alchemist instead of 7 before going into Master Chymist. That way I get one more Discovery. A big question is, do I want to have only 2 levels of Barbarian? If not, how many do I add and when?

I'm going to go with Human rather than Half-Orc.

Here's the mech pilot thread for any interested.

Ragechemist is a horrible trap. Fitting as it may be, stacking Int penalties will first stop you using extracts then knock you out in the middle of a melee. Which may well kill your PC. Int penalties are incurable other than by time, you can't even chug an extract or potion of lesser restoration to mitigate them.

If you want to use the prestige class at all then delaying it later than 11th level is probably also a mistake. i.e. don't take more than 2 levels of barbarian.

BTW, how is +1 minute/level noticeably useful when the base duration is 10 minutes/level?

That is a good point. I'll stay away from the archetype.

Got a possible point spread for Hulk. 20 points, putting the +2 into Strength.

16 Str, 12 Dex, 16 Con, 14 Int, 12 Wis, 7 Cha.

Or I could go with 10 Dex and 15 Int.

I think I'm definitely going to go with the Lesser Beast Totem for claw attacks. Since it takes an hour to make a mutagen, I probably won't be able to do so while adventuring. So the rage power can give me attacks once the mutagen wears off.

A 6-level caster is fine starting with a 14 in their casting stat, alchemists especially since they rarely use spells which use save DCs.

If you want a backup weapon it might be better to go with an earthbreaker or some polearm or something than to use your one free rage power on claws. Barbarians get full martial weapon prof.

Do you have a suggestion for the rage power?

I've decided not to take an 8th level of Alchemist. I don't see any discoveries that really fit the theme other than the 3 I'm already taking. I mean, he'll have access to bombs, but he's not really going to use them.

Still don't know what rage power to take.

Knockback or knockdown or smasher all seem appropriate. If you don't like combat maneuvers then lesser undead blood is more appropriate than the name sounds. Guarded life helps avoid Sudden Barbarian Death Syndrome. Flight response stops you being frightened before you get a chance to start raging. What do you want out of your rage power?

I'm not sure. Guarded Life seems pretty useful. Keep him from dying and all that.

  • guarded life- covert lethal to nonlethal equal to barbarian level
  • scent- locate unseen foes
  • smasher- ignore objects hardness
  • superstition- +2 save vs spells/spell-like/supernatural

  • Ok, so I think I'm going to go with Guarded Life. I'm building the character up to level 13 so that's two advanced mutagens from the PrC to pick.

    I like Furious Mutagen, but it needs 11 combined levels of Master Chymist and Alchemist so I have to take that second. For the first one, I like the look of Restoring Change. When changing back and forth between normal form and mutagenic form, I heal by 1d8 + character level. It's either that or Extended Mutagen to double the length of time of the mutations.

    Considering what your Will save is likely to be as an alchemist 7/barbarian 2/master chymist 4 I'd have thought dual mind worth a look.

    Oh yeah, alchemists have horrible will saves, don't they?

    Barbarians and master chymists have poor will saves too. You'd have a +3 base (& +Wis, +cloak of resistance) Will save at level 13. +2 more in a rage. About +9, +11 in a rage? Vs. typical CR 13 save DCs of ~21. So long as you do get that cloak of resistance +5 it's not truly horrible, but another +2 and getting to reroll again a round later where applicable could help noticeably.

    Ok, so I'll just push Furious Mutagen back to level 15 instead of 13. Dual Minded needs 10 levels of Master Chymist and Alchemist so I still couldn't take it first unless I do go with an 8th level of Alchemist.

    Alchemist 8 does come with another discovery and may be a better break point if you're not using fractional BAB/saves.

    Edit: I'm not sure which discoveries you're taking. Obviously feral mutagen and I expect spontaneous healing. Elemental mutagen and preserve organs have their points, so do extend potion and enhance potion. Wings isn't especially appropriate but is useful. You're probably not getting into bombs with this character?

    Those two and Bone-Spike Mutagen. It gives a +2 to Natural Armor.

    That's true. And no, I wasn't getting into bombs. He'll have them, but won't be using them much.

    And I totally forgot about the discovery Lingering Spirit. You treat your Constitution score as 10 higher for determining when HP damage kills you.

    Ok, so.... feat ideas, anyone? I assume Power Attack will be needed, and I'll probably want Iron Will.

    Extra Rage is always good for a Barbarian. Extra Rage Power could be useful if I have the room for it.

    I'm still working on Hulk, but when I was going through the feats, I noticed a couple that could be useful if I tried making the Flash again. Circling Mongoose and the Spring-Heeled line. Instead of focusing only on boosting base speed but still only being able to attack one person at a time, he can move around and attack multiple people in the same round. It's a bit feat intensive though.

    If I just want him to be able to attack just one more person, I can do it with Spring-Heeled Reaping which is only one more feat after Spring-Heeled Sprint. But if I want to attack 3 people, I'd need Greater Spring Attack. Which requires Improved Spring which in turn needs Nimble Moves. Basically it would be a choice of two attacks for one feat or 3 attacks for 3 feats. Monks do get bonus feats, but only from a list which means it won't really be helpful filling out the build except at level one.

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