It was months ago now, but I still remember watching all the low rolls on that acid spray and cringing at just how much damage they were about to take. I think the animal companion survived with only 1 HP. Fortunately they cleaned up pretty quickly from there, but the cleric had to blow all his daily healing on this one encounter.
Not a player perspective horror story, but when I ran Raiders of Shrieking Peak one of the minotaurs got completely annihilated by the alchemist thanks to persistent damage. Watching him slowly dissolve over the course of a couple turns while the fighting was too heavy for him to waste actions really gave me new respect for the mechanic.
Remember: Each time you spend an action to try and clean off the acid you get to roll a new flat check. Meaning outside of combat you should have 4 rolls each round to get rid of the acid (one for each action, and then one for when the damage hits). You might have ran that part wrong?
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Yeah, acid needs a time limit.
When Ash cut into the facehugger in the first Alien movie, the molecular acid started melting through the deck plating. The crew was afraid it would melt all the way down through the hull. It didn't. It ran out of, uh, meltiness after a couple of decks.
Why?
IIRC, acid exchanges some of its basic elements (protons, I think?) with the molecules of whatever it's dissolving. The protons leave the acid to bond with the other stuff which causes it to dissolve. Or something like that. Ask a chemist.
But this means that the acid has a finite amount of protons to donate before it runs out.
Or to put it another way, matter is not being created or destroyed. It's just being changed to some new state, and this applies both to the stuff that is being dissolved AND to the acid.
That can't go on forever. Stopping it is not just a matter of wiping it off - it will stop on its own. How much of you is left when it stops is a matter of how much of you was there to begin with and how much acid was used.
But, real world chemistry isn't needed to make in-game acids plausible. It should just have a fixed number of rounds that it can do damage. Arguably, less damage each round as the acid gets weaker, but mechanically that seems too much to track. Something like 4 or 5 rounds would work nicely.
Side note, my ranger nearly lost his cuddly bear companion to that same Pale Mountain's Shadow (PMS) acid monster. One hit, then lots of failed flat checks got him down to the point that another failed check would have killed him. Luckily, I finally made the check.
While IRL it can make sense for the acid (or any other form of persistant damage) to have a turn limit, I feel it's pretty unnessisary. The pass/fail on the flat check is already a pretty good representation of how many protons are still in the acid, how long the fire can burn, long it takes for your body to stop the bleeding, etc.
What I think there really needs to be is a means to help improve the odds of passing the check beyond just the medicine roll outto make recovery go from a 5% to 25% chance to pass. My preference would be an alchemical item, and to add it to the list of elixirs the chirurgeon research field can make using perpetual alchemy. Have the item lower the DC to recover from persistant damage for a short time (1 min or so), and make the DC reduction stack with the medicine check to reduce, and just increase how much it helps for each level of the elixir.
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Yeah, acid needs a time limit.
When Ash cut into the facehugger in the first Alien movie, the molecular acid started melting through the deck plating. The crew was afraid it would melt all the way down through the hull. It didn't. It ran out of, uh, meltiness after a couple of decks.
Why?
IIRC, acid exchanges some of its basic elements (protons, I think?) with the molecules of whatever it's dissolving. The protons leave the acid to bond with the other stuff which causes it to dissolve. Or something like that. Ask a chemist.
But this means that the acid has a finite amount of protons to donate before it runs out.
Or to put it another way, matter is not being created or destroyed. It's just being changed to some new state, and this applies both to the stuff that is being dissolved AND to the acid.
That can't go on forever. Stopping it is not just a matter of wiping it off - it will stop on its own. How much of you is left when it stops is a matter of how much of you was there to begin with and how much acid was used.
But, real world chemistry isn't needed to make in-game acids plausible. It should just have a fixed number of rounds that it can do damage. Arguably, less damage each round as the acid gets weaker, but mechanically that seems too much to track. Something like 4 or 5 rounds would work nicely.
Side note, my ranger nearly lost his cuddly bear companion to that same Pale Mountain's Shadow (PMS) acid monster. One hit, then lots of failed flat checks got him down to the point that another failed check would have killed him. Luckily, I finally made the check.
Pretty sure Acid doesn't interact with protons, it'd be nuclear at that point and would produce isotopes rather than ions, It does however create an electron flow when it interacts with metals, thus allowing acid batteries to produce energy.
Persistent damage is pretty vile (acid or otherwise). Theoretically, you get lots of saves at it (since every time you take an action to address it, you get a free flat check). Of course, you only have a 25% max chance of passing the check, so it's very possible to just die, even when you aren't in combat anymore and can spare the actions.
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Pretty sure Acid doesn't interact with protons, it'd be nuclear at that point and would produce isotopes rather than ions, It does however create an electron flow when it interacts with metals, thus allowing acid batteries to produce energy.Yeah, acid needs a time limit.
When Ash cut into the facehugger in the first Alien movie, the molecular acid started melting through the deck plating. The crew was afraid it would melt all the way down through the hull. It didn't. It ran out of, uh, meltiness after a couple of decks.
Why?
IIRC, acid exchanges some of its basic elements (protons, I think?) with the molecules of whatever it's dissolving. The protons leave the acid to bond with the other stuff which causes it to dissolve. Or something like that. Ask a chemist.
But this means that the acid has a finite amount of protons to donate before it runs out.
Or to put it another way, matter is not being created or destroyed. It's just being changed to some new state, and this applies both to the stuff that is being dissolved AND to the acid.
That can't go on forever. Stopping it is not just a matter of wiping it off - it will stop on its own. How much of you is left when it stops is a matter of how much of you was there to begin with and how much acid was used.
But, real world chemistry isn't needed to make in-game acids plausible. It should just have a fixed number of rounds that it can do damage. Arguably, less damage each round as the acid gets weaker, but mechanically that seems too much to track. Something like 4 or 5 rounds would work nicely.
Side note, my ranger nearly lost his cuddly bear companion to that same Pale Mountain's Shadow (PMS) acid monster. One hit, then lots of failed flat checks got him down to the point that another failed check would have killed him. Luckily, I finally made the check.
DM Blake got it right. (Most) Acids react by "donating" their available protons (aka hydrogen ions). Its confusing to call then protons but a hydrogen atom with one less electron IS just a proton. No need for nuclear shenanigans. Pretty sure that's off topic though... I agree that persistent damage can benefit from a max duration.
Yeah, acid needs a time limit.
When Ash cut into the facehugger in the first Alien movie, the molecular acid started melting through the deck plating. The crew was afraid it would melt all the way down through the hull. It didn't. It ran out of, uh, meltiness after a couple of decks.
Why?
IIRC, acid exchanges some of its basic elements (protons, I think?) with the molecules of whatever it's dissolving. The protons leave the acid to bond with the other stuff which causes it to dissolve. Or something like that. Ask a chemist.
But this means that the acid has a finite amount of protons to donate before it runs out.
Or to put it another way, matter is not being created or destroyed. It's just being changed to some new state, and this applies both to the stuff that is being dissolved AND to the acid.
That can't go on forever. Stopping it is not just a matter of wiping it off - it will stop on its own. How much of you is left when it stops is a matter of how much of you was there to begin with and how much acid was used.
But, real world chemistry isn't needed to make in-game acids plausible. It should just have a fixed number of rounds that it can do damage. Arguably, less damage each round as the acid gets weaker, but mechanically that seems too much to track. Something like 4 or 5 rounds would work nicely.
Side note, my ranger nearly lost his cuddly bear companion to that same Pale Mountain's Shadow (PMS) acid monster. One hit, then lots of failed flat checks got him down to the point that another failed check would have killed him. Luckily, I finally made the check.
To be fair, movie physics aren't very accurate to how real life is. Things are exaggerated, forgotten about, etc.
That being said, a mechanic to reduce the flat check by 1 or 2 each turn that fails to remove it would be appropriate here, so that people (and monsters) don't get screwed by overly bad dice.
You mean like standing up too quickly to go to the toilet, sitting down with a bit of a headrush, and instead of seeing dots in your vision, I saw tiny spiders sliding down out of the air in front of my eyes?
0/10 wouldn't try again, but I've heard other people have had life changing experiences.
I'm not sure there is a strong enough argument for complicated persistent damage by adding a turn limit, especially one that would have to be tracked separately for each source of persistent damage.
Tracking turn limits for poison is already annoying enough to be likely to mess up when multiple poisons are at play.
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We had a rough time with acid the first time it came up and we dug into the persistant damage rules.
Despite several people helping and the character trying himself, single digit roles cause about 5 rounds of burning.
Rather than a time limit, I would rather persistent damage start at a DC 20, have a free check each round, have another check each action spent to remove it, but instead reduce the flat check by 2 each time an action to remove is taken.
That way with enough work, it is guaranteed to be removed.
We had a rough time with acid the first time it came up and we dug into the persistant damage rules.
Despite several people helping and the character trying himself, single digit roles cause about 5 rounds of burning.
Rather than a time limit, I would rather persistent damage start at a DC 20, have a free check each round, have another check each action spent to remove it, but instead reduce the flat check by 2 each time an action to remove is taken.
That way with enough work, it is guaranteed to be removed.
5 rounds really? I feel like you guys have to have been forgetting the rule that one action gives you a new roll. 4 x 5 = 20 rolls to beat a 25% chance. That's not counting however many times an ally was helping wipe it off as well. Which they can spend 3 actions a round to give 3 more rolls.
Acid rules are fine imo.
Yes, it is a 68% chance to get rid of the acid in the first round, if you take all your actions to get rid of it. But if you have 5 rounds, it is a 99,7% chance though (0.75^20). As much as more rolls you have, as more stable your outcome will be.
Yes, it is a 68% chance to get rid of the acid in the first round, if you take all your actions to get rid of it. But if you have 5 rounds, it is a 99,7% chance though (0.75^20). As much as more rolls you have, as more stable your outcome will be.
???
If you use an action to get rid of it, it's 30% to get rid of it first round, and every subsequent round.
An action doesn't give you a DC 15 check to remove it, it changes the check at the end of your turn to DC 15. After the first action, no other actions help remove it.
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Yes, it is a 68% chance to get rid of the acid in the first round, if you take all your actions to get rid of it. But if you have 5 rounds, it is a 99,7% chance though (0.75^20). As much as more rolls you have, as more stable your outcome will be.???
If you use an action to get rid of it, it's 30% to get rid of it first round, and every subsequent round.
An action doesn't give you a DC 15 check to remove it, it changes the check at the end of your turn to DC 15. After the first action, no other actions help remove it.
"You or an ally can spend actions to help you recover from persistent damage, such as casting healing spells or using Medicine to Administer First Aid against bleeding, dousing a flame, or washing off acid; successfully doing so reduces the DC of that condition’s flat check to 15 and usually lets you immediately attempt an extra flat check to end that persistent damage. The reduction to the DC lasts until you remove the persistent damage or gain another persistent damage condition with the same damage type."
usually lets you immediately attempt an extra flat check to end that persistent damage
"usually"?
usually lets you immediately attempt an extra flat check to end that persistent damage"usually"?
I have no idea of what this usually means either, but it's what the book says. Maybe there will be exceptions in the future...?
Yeah, I read that "usually" to mean "unless otherwise stated".
I like persistent damage as is. I don't think we need to complicate it by having it follow different rules for different damage types. Yes, realistically, acid "runs out" eventually, but so does fire or bleeding. Even if it only because the corpse is ash or out of blood. A flat check feels fine enough to represent the chance of a fire going out, acid finishing, or blood clotting.
Given how short combat is, it isn't like most creatures aren't going to die from persistent damage after a fight unless they were pretty close to dead already, at which point how long the damage persists is academic because it is happening to a corpse.