Does it?
Yup
A creature that is taking bleed damage takes the listed amount of damage at the beginning of its turn. Bleeding can be stopped by a DC 15 Heal check or through the application of any spell that cures hit point damage (even if the bleed is ability damage). Some bleed effects cause ability damage or even ability drain. Bleed effects do not stack with each other unless they deal different kinds of damage. When two or more bleed effects deal the same kind of damage, take the worse effect. In this case, ability drain is worse than ability damage.
It says any SPELL that cures hit point damage. Fast healing isn't a spell so I'm not sure it would work.
Oh right, I was assuming fast healing from a spell =)P
I'm pretty sure the answer still stands. Don't have a quote right now but I'll let you know if I find it.
Bleed lists Heal checks and HP restoring spells as counters. In the Bestiary Universal rules (only descriptions I can find) both Fast Healing and Regeneration are listed as (EX) abilities with no mention of stopping bleed. So unless a citation can be found elsewhere, no Fast Healing does not stop bleed.
... In addition, the wearer is immune to bleed damage while wearing a ring of regeneration....
This might be what we're thinking of. It's similar enough that you could count it as precedent (it's based off the spell).
It's possible that this is a legacy thing where fast healing/regeneration healed bleed in 3.5, but i'm not sure.
I don't think bleed existed in 3.5.
It did, there was a feat in song and silence (which is a 3.0 book) called Arterial Strike which added bleed damage to your sneak attacks. It also has the same kind of wording that we see in pathfinder talking about how a heal check or magical healing ends the effect.
I haven't been able to find anything the explicitly states that fast healing/regeneration stops bleed effects, but I was able to find places that seem to assume this is the case.
Regeneration: Regeneration provides no special protection against called shots, but it might negate or undo some of the effects, such as bleeding or limb loss.
Hemochem stops bleeding and promotes healing. A single dose of hemochem grants fast healing for 1 minute. Multiple doses injected do not stack, but they do reset the duration of the fast healing back to 1 minute.
Regeneration and hemochem specifically say they stop bleeding, and also have the effects of restoring HP. That doesn't necessarily mean that restoring HP stops all bleeding. And Fast Healing (the generic term) just says it "acts like natural healing."
Someone could view "bleed damage" as something more severe than "bleeding", and requires real medical attention. I mean, even 1 Bleed would kill an average human in 90 seconds. That's pretty severe.
actually, the first sentence in hemochem is merely flavor text. The only mechanical benefit it grants is fast healing. Additionally, while the magical ring of regeneration stops bleed effects the universal monster ability regeneration has no such wording.
That being said, I completely agree with you otherwise.
So if it does stop does the creature still take bleed damage for one round or does it heal before they can actually bleed any?
The universal monster rules expand the description:
Bleed (Ex) A creature with this ability causes wounds that continue to bleed, inflicting additional damage each round at the start of the affected creature's turn. This bleeding can be stopped by a successful DC 15 Heal skill check or through the application of any magical healing. The amount of damage each round is determined in the creature's entry.
But it's still unclear if fast healing from magical sources is itself magical healing.
Fast Healing and Regenerate are both listed as (Ex) abilities. As such, they operate in anti-magic areas. Thereore, they are not magic of any kind.
Bleed can be stopped by a heal check of sufficient DC or by magic healing.
Therefore, fast healing and regeneration do not normally stop bleed effects. They can and do undo the damage caused by the bleed, but they do not stop the bleed itself.
/cevah
Fast Healing and Regenerate are both listed as (Ex) abilities. As such, they operate in anti-magic areas. Thereore, they are not magic of any kind.
But if magic gave it to you, then they wouldn't function in anti-magic areas.... So how does magically granted fast healing count?
If you magicly grew wings (say from Beast Shape) you would have the fly (ex) ability, which would shut down in AMF when the underlying spell is supressed. Your ability to fly itself is not magic however.
I would say the same about fast healing.
If you magicly grew wings (say from Beast Shape) you would have the fly (ex) ability, which would shut down in AMF when the underlying spell is supressed. Your ability to fly itself is not magic however.
I would say the same about fast healing.
I’m actually not sure about the flight thing, but I’d like to know that too. Do you fly by using the wings or do you take a form that has wings and you also magically gain a fly speed?
I've always played fast healing that it doesn't stop bleed. There, as evidenced, are not any core rules explicitly stating that the (Ex) fast healing would do so, so I play it that the PC bleeds... and the fast healing kicks in to heal that damage. Not one line of errata about it over 10 years, so just go with what is explicitly stated about all conditions.
A bit of thread necromancy here:
Would the Adaptive shifter’s restoration form stop bleeding
It’s a supernatural ability.
https://www.aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Shifter%20Adaptive%2 0Shifter
This might be one of those rare instances where PCs have an advantage over monsters.
PCs with fast healing or regeneration usually acquire it via magical means such as the Inquisitor’s healing judgement or a ring of regeneration. Magical healing stops bleed damage. Monsters with fast healing or regeneration have them as extraordinary abilities and so still suffer bleed damage.
How curious.
i always figures that the bleed rules in the monster section was overstating something with the word 'magical' about the healing that stop bleeding and that the conditions rules stating that you need a spell specifically to stop this was when only spells were availed to be used by characters (potions are bottled spells).
why should it matter how the healing happen?
i tend to think bleed should work like the 'bleeding attack' rogue\unchained rogue\ninja trick\talent :
" The bleeding can be stopped by a successful DC 15 Heal check or the application of any effect that heals hit point damage."
and that the one in the monster book with 'magical' written is an oversight that the trick\talent fix.
|
I think Temperans has the right reply: different kinds of bleed work in different ways. Needless complication as they have the same name, but it seems the better answer.
The Holy Vindicator example isn't particularly relevant as his bleed is the activation cost of an ability.
If the Holy Vindicator is pushed into a negative hit point value with his Stigmata active, saving it becomes harder, as other people have no way to stop the bleeding. Only an act of will from the Holy Vindicator close them.
It is worth noting that the Holy Vindicator’s bleed from Stigmata just can’t be stopped by magical means… fast healing or regeneration would still undo the bleed damage… but just because the damage has been undone doesn’t mean the bleed s stopped.
|
|
It is worth noting that the Holy Vindicator’s bleed from Stigmata just can’t be stopped by magical means… fast healing or regeneration would still undo the bleed damage… but just because the damage has been undone doesn’t mean the bleed s stopped.
Magical healing can heal the damage dealt by Stigmata, it simply doesn't stop the bleeding. Once dealt damage is damage, it doesn't differentiate what dealt it. Some effects can make healing damage more difficult, but it affects all healing (like a Cornugon Infernal wound).