A simple question that needs to be answered in the book


General Discussion

Grand Lodge

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You are Asleep or Unconscious. Can someone pick you up? How can people interact with you? Are you still considered a person, occupying a square and refusing others to pass? Are you effectively an object?

This is not really optional. Please. I have assumptions, as I'm sure most people who read this do, but it really should be in the book.


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This came up in my game where the players were bottle necked in a path and the lead PC went down, the other players didn't know if they could stand over the body in the same square.


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Along these lines... How much bulk does an unconscious person constitute? People have been referencing the petrification rules, of all places, but I question that a stone statue really has the same bulk as an unconscious person?

Grand Lodge

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A thousand guesses, but this really shouldn't be a GM discretion kind of 'thing'.


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I don't really think it's a matter of "guesses" but information not presented in the right area. Since Petrified pretty definitively states that twice a creature's bulk is "typically 16 for a petrifed Medium creature or 8 for a petrifed Small creature" it's clear to me that those values are 8 and 4 for a regular creature. The problem is that this is the only place those values are mentioned.


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As Pathfinder is going the opposite direction of the "Mother May I" style, such questions are vital, yes I agree.

And I'd add one of mine: "Do fire damage spells burn unattended things unless otherwise noted?" Yes, I heard horror stories of 4E when an incompetent D..referee disallowed fire powers from burning stuff because it ain't written so.

Grand Lodge

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Tholo, that's great, except it still doesn't, by the rules, let you actually pick someone up. Can you stand in their square? Are they occupying their square? Do they make the square they're in difficult terrain, or basically don't exist for sake of movement, or block it all?


Moving through a Creature’s Space (pg 311):
You can move through a willing creature’s space. If you want to move through an unwilling creature’s space, you have to either attempt an Athletics check to Shove it out of the way or Tumble Through that creature’s space using the Acrobatics skill. You can’t end your movement in a square occupied by another creature, though you can end a move action in its square provided you immediately use another move action to leave that square. If two creatures end up in the same square by accident, the GM determines which one is forced out of the square (or whether one falls prone).

Prone and Incapacitated Creatures (pg 311):
You can share a space with a prone creature if that creature is willing, unconscious, or dead, and is your size or smaller. The GM might allow you to climb atop the corpse or unconscious body of a larger creature in some situations. A prone creature can’t stand up while someone else occupies its space, but it can Crawl to a space where it’s able to stand, or it can attempt to Shove the other creature out of the way.

This answers most of your questions. One that I still have and showed in my last game is that is possible to Drag a incapacitated creature...
I ruled that it consumed an interact action and for movement count as difficulty terrain

Grand Lodge

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That does answer one of the big questions. However, is an Asleep/Unconscious person willing? I would think so?

Still doesn't cover picking them up, and their bulk remains an inferred number in an unrelated effect.


Lucas Yew wrote:

As Pathfinder is going the opposite direction of the "Mother May I" style, such questions are vital, yes I agree.

And I'd add one of mine: "Do fire damage spells burn unattended things unless otherwise noted?" Yes, I heard horror stories of 4E when an incompetent D..referee disallowed fire powers from burning stuff because it ain't written so.

There is a group of Starfinder players that I know are like this and they are not young kids or new players.

MDC


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David Silver - Ponyfinder wrote:
That does answer one of the big questions. However, is an Asleep/Unconscious person willing? I would think so?

I am pretty sure that they avoided the "asleep/unconscious = willing" thing in the playtest rules because of various unfortunate implications -- but they do mention both sets of conditions when they have equivalent effects.

Liberty's Edge

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The "dragging someone that's down" thing seems to come up a LOT. I'd appreciate it getting an official mention in the rulebook, too.

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