I was wondering if there was such a thing. IF not, has anyone got any advice for maximizing the UMD skill, any classes or abilities that add to or alter it (taking 10, anyone?) or any general tips for using it. Any good wands, scrolls, other items that are worth picking up, etc.
Thanks!
Sounds like a great idea to me. I'm always wondering what spells I should take as a scroll/wand instead of memorizing for the day. Things like True Strike make for a great wand.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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As I understand it, wands are generally preferred over scrolls if you're using UMD. Something about different DCs, but I haven't looked it up. Any spell whose effects aren't very dependent on level or casting stat make great wands: endure elements, protection from evil, cure light wounds, etc.
well, for example: first level of Pathfinder Savant allows the taking 10 on UMD rolls. I wish I could get that for a rogue. In fact, a Rogue archetype focused on UMD would be awesome...
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I'm currently enjoying a low level rogue with maxed UMD ranks and a halfling Charisma. Small charge wands are a fun boost to the character's roguishness, and adds some magic use to a light melee and skill based character.
Wands are easier to use than scrolls with UMD. The DC for wand use is a flat DC20, and the worst downside is rolling a 1 and thereby putting the wand away for the day. Scroll can be tough because they still need to be deciphered with a DC of 25+spell level (wand of read magic can be helpful here), possibly an ability emulation check, and the UMD check to use the scroll once deciphered is 20+CL..so, in itself is always higher than the wand. On the other side of the discussion, scrolls can be used for higher level spells (wands are limited to fourth level), and can be purchased in one use increments.
Skill Focus and Magical Aptitude are both feats that can bump the score. Potions/scrolls/wands of Eagle's Splendor are gold resource rather than feat resource options on bumping Charisma. Anything else that also bumps Charisma or the skill (magic resource for a skill bump, traits, tool for +2) is an option as well.
I really would like to play a Rogue with the False Casting feat from Inner Sea Magic.
(since pfsrd hasn't got it) It allows you to fool any observers into thinking that any spell trigger or completion items you use to create a magical effect are in fact, you casting the spell. Any onlookers with spellcraft ranks can attempt to see through this deceit, However they roll against your Bluff, which could be ridiculously high.
So basically, you can use any wands, scrolls, or other magic items, and get everyone to believe that you are in fact a wizard or cleric.
So what i really want to play a rogue that goes on adventures, writes books, basically cultivating a cult of personality around himself as a powerful wizard and adventurer. He lies to everyone, getting people to go on adventures with him, under the guise of a powerful spellcaster. Of course, many of his books are complete fiction anyway.
So... a reliable method of UMD as early as possible would be awesome, (if it fails here and there you can claim arcane spell failure from the light armor you conveniently wear), as would a good bluff (which is easy to do).
That sounds like a great solo character or the protagonist for a fun novel. Unfortunately, in a typical 4-5 person party, there's little need for putting that much effort into UMD. If you have an arcane caster and a divine caster in your party, they come with all those low-level wand effects built in, without having to spend money on each casting. Furthermore, if you do want to use such magic items, your arcane and divine casters can do it with no risk of failure and no feats for skill ranks devoted.
So, for a solo campaign, or one where you are much more concerned with roleplaying than effectiveness, go for it! Otherwise, build a more useful character and come up with a fun personality to match it.
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Quick ways to cheese UMD:
*Gnome Rogue taking the alternate Favored Class bonus for +1 to UMD on written things
*Dangerously Curious character trait +1
*Skill Focus (UMD) +3/6
*Magical Aptitude +2/4
That gives a level 1 character with 14 CHA a +11 modifier, +12 if they're a gnome rogue using a scroll.
Get a Masterwork Tool, another +2 (Circumstance), for +13 at level 1.
The 1st level Bard/Cleric spell "Tap Inner Beauty" gives you another +2 (Insight) for 1 minute per level (get a wand of this).
Now you're at +15 at level 1, and only a 25% chance to fail a wand activation.
===Level 3 / 4===
Base Modifier is +13/14 with another +4 for your tool & spell (lets say you reliably have a +17).
Have a bard buddy Inspire Competence +2 (Competence) on you. (+19)
Have a wizard buddy cast Eagle's Splendor for another +2 (Enhancement). (+21, can't fail wands except on a nat 1 which nukes the wand anyway)
Have a bard buddy cast Heroism on you (He can at 4) for another +2 (Morale). (+23)
===Level 7===
You should be looking to replace the Eagle's Splendor with a +4 CHA headband. Your base should be +16 with a reliable +26 with above prep.
Bard buddy now gives you +3 (Competence). (+27)
Somehow come up with a Stone of Good Luck for +1 (Luck). (+28)
===Level 10===
Above prep and levels should give you approx +31.
Your 2 feats double in value for an additional +5. (+36)
===Level 11===
Prep'd score +37
Wizard buddy casts Greater Heroism, giving another +2 (Morale). (+39)
Bard buddy's inspire competence to +4 (Competence). (+40)
===Level 15===
Prep'd score +44
Bard Buddy's inspire competence to +5 (Competence). +45
Headband of CHA to +6 (Enhancement). (+46)
===Level 16===
Prep'd score +47
4x boosts to CHA for every four levels. (+49)
===Level 17===
Prep'd Score +50
4x Castings of Wish for +CHA. (+52)
Also +17 for written words for taking that gnomish favored class bonus all these levels. You roll a +69 when prepared and deciphering a scroll, which your wizard buddy should be writing you some high CL scrolls.
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Considerations:
GM may or may not allow Aid Another checks for UMD.
GM may or may not allow Stone of Good Luck to be enhanced to greater values than +1.
3rd party spells may provide better sources for Insight (this capped at +2), Circumstance (MW tool is only +2), and then there are always Luck Feats which may benefit your situation.
Hero points may help depending on your campaign.
The Bard spell Gallant Inspiration is an immediate action spell your bard buddy can cast if you fail to give you a +2d4, or an empowered version to 2d4*1.5. This overlaps with Inspire Competence, though.
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Except that there is no such beast defined in the ruleset.
In the equipment section of the CRB:
This well-made item is the perfect tool for the job. It grants a +2 circumstance bonus on a related skill check (if any). Bonuses provided by multiple masterwork items do not stack.
It can be cheesy, and some DMs may not allow it. But it's a possibility.
Except that there is no such beast defined in the ruleset.In the equipment section of the CRB:
This well-made item is the perfect tool for the job. It grants a +2 circumstance bonus on a related skill check (if any). Bonuses provided by multiple masterwork items do not stack.It can be cheesy, and some DMs may not allow it. But it's a possibility.
Don't forget the Circlet of Persuasion too (4,500 gp for +3 to all Charisma based checks is nice <_<).
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Have a wizard buddy cast Eagle's Splendor for another +2 (Enhancement). (+21, can't fail wands except on a nat 1 which nukes the wand anyway)Just to jump in with something I recently discovered; if you succeed even though you roll a nat 1, there are no consequences. So once you're at a +19 modifier, you're golden for all wand usage.
Try Again: Yes, but if you ever roll a natural 1 while attempting to activate an item and you fail, then you can't try to activate that item again for 24 hours.
Well oh well... Those three words are a game changer indeed. Thanks for pointing them out!
The masterwork tool entry is a generic one so they didn't have to print a ton of redundant entries.
And then once UE comes out, we'll stop having to refer to the developers :)
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Except that there is no such beast defined in the ruleset.If you want to get creative, you can always get a Masterwork Tool for UMD. That'd be another +2 to the roll.
That's not defining a masterwork tool for a skill. The definition of a masterwork tool for a skill includes a description of what it is and a price for such a tool in the equipment list. Even still such a tool may not be usable in all circumstances such as scroll use since two hands are required to unfurl and read a scroll.
Masterwork tools only apply on skills which require a tool in order to operate at par. UMD is not such a skill.
Also not explicitly called out in the rules.
Don't rules lawyer some stuff but not other stuff.
Sigh. There, Jason Bulmahn coming up with some examples of masterwork tools for skills that don't use tools.
It's just a +2 circumstance bonus if the tool is helpful in that circumstance. What the tool is is up to the player.
I created a Ninja a week or two ago for a game and got to looking into UMD quite a bit in her design. I'm now of the opinion that it is indeed one of the better skills for everyone. Wands are very useful and while a 20 can be difficult for a low level character, a mid to high level character should be able to use a wand anytime they need to (barring horrible charisma), and once you've activated the device once, the DC goes down by 2, which is nifty (well really you get a +2, but same thing). They're even better for Ninja's due to the charisma.
One of the first things I picked up was a weapon with the spell storing feature, and that goes together with a wand like a hand and glove and can make for great versatility in a weapon. Next were buff spells with a decent duration, so hours, minutes aren't bad. Darkvision, Barkskin, and Lead Blades were all pretty decent choices, I'm sure there are plenty for anyone with some spare gold. Spare scrolls that the Casters arent going to use are even better with a decent score because then you can start using rd/level spells with longer durations.
I have a kind of funny situation. A couple of months ago, the party in my current game only had 2 casters. One was me and the other a wizard. When he died, the party gave me all of the wands he had crafted. Most of them I could use without a UMD check, though I have to roll if I want to use Fireball or Melting Hands. (Burning Hands with a Metamagic feat applied.) Now we have a total of 5 casters, though 2 of them are used by the same player who switches them out along with 2 other characters, so we usually have 3 casters. And I still have the wands.
I know this is a thread necro, but another way to get UMD is to take a Familiar with the Sage archetype.
Personally, I've gotten the most mileage out of UMD via pathfinder savant. It lets you take 10 on the check and when you cast spells from scrolls you can use your own caster level. I created a magic item based on the handy haversack that works only only scrolls. That way I could stock up on a bunch of minimum caster level scrolls for situational spells I didn't want to have to keep memorized all the time. For my favorites/daily buffs I created permanent scrolls. They cost about 100x what a normal scroll costs but the writing never fades and are otherwise exactly the same as a normal scroll.
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I know this is a thread necro, but another way to get UMD is to take a Familiar with the Sage archetype.
This kind of Familiar increases in Int over time. There is a Magic trait called Pragmatic Activator that lets you use Int instead of Cha for UMD. There's also a Religion trait called Underlying Principles that grants UMD as a class skill with a +1 Trait bonus. So...
Get a Familiar with the Sage archetype and trade out it's starting Feat for the Feat: Extra Traits. The Familiar takes the 2 noted above. You in the meantime take the Feat: Evolved Familiar to give your Familiar the Skilled evolution; this grants the Familiar a +8 bonus to one skill, which in this case is UMD.
As you level the Familiar gets skill ranks; put 1/level into UMD. Your Familiar starts at a base UMD of +10 at level 1; every 2 levels you take in a class that grants leveling to your Familiar, your Familiar's Int bonus increases by 1 meaning that, without any further spells/items, your Familiar will go up +1 per Skill Rank with an additional +1 from their Int bonus every 2 levels.
Level 3/Familiar's UMD is +13
Level 5/Familiar's UMD is +16
Level 7/Familiar's UMD is +19And so on. Add in spells/items that boost Int or grant bonuses to skills and that's gravy. With a Familiar and the expenditure of 1 Feat delivered to it instead of you, by level 7 at least you'll have a wand-wielding side kick constantly at your side.
Now if you're going "sure, but what if your Familiar can't talk or doesn't have hands?" then to that I say either use a raven or get a reliable source of Alter Self spells you can pass through yourself to your Familiar. There's ways to do it and, using the rest of this thread as a guide, you could probably also boost your own UMD to compliment your Familiar's as well.
The familiar will have to be able to speak to activate command word items. Better have a raven or thrush familiar.
The familiar will have to be able to speak to activate command word items. Better have a raven or thrush familiar.
If the master is 5th level or higher, a familiar and the master can communicate verbally as if they were using a common language. Other creatures do not understand the communication without magical help.
Any familiar works at level 5 and up.
Some improved familiars have decent CHA, and one even is a sorcerer 3rd. My familiar saved my life once by using a wand of cure on me. [Helps that I have max ranks in UMD.] Remember, the familiar gets your ranks, but not the class skill or your stat mod. Most familiars have low CHA, so have a major problem using UMD.
Then there are Wand Key Rings that give +10 insight for a particular spell.
And also the story feat Artifact Hunter that lets you take 15 once or twice a day.
/cevah
Okay, I will bite. Where can these be found or are they homebrew?For my favorites/daily buffs I created permanent scrolls. They cost about 100x what a normal scroll costs but the writing never fades and are otherwise exactly the same as a normal scroll.
That sounds like a minor schema from Eberron. D&D 3.5, I forget which exact book.
Okay, I will bite. Where can these be found or are they homebrew?For my favorites/daily buffs I created permanent scrolls. They cost about 100x what a normal scroll costs but the writing never fades and are otherwise exactly the same as a normal scroll.
Homebrew I'm afraid. I used the normal item creation rules from the book though and I've provided the details below for anyone interested.
Permanent Scrolls
Aura see text; CL see text
Slot Scroll; Price 2 x Cost; Weight -
DESCRIPTION
These scrolls are made out of a high quality thin, yet supple leather. Each scroll is created with a single specific spell scribed upon it. These items function exactly as scrolls except the writing never fades allowing the spell to be re-cast as desired. Unlike normal scrolls, if the permanent scroll contains a spell with a costly material component(s), those component(s) must be provided at the time the spell is cast, otherwise the spell simply fizzles with no effect.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS
Cost Spell Level x CL x 1,000gp; Feats Scribe Scroll, Craft Wondrous Item; Spells Spell to be scribed;
Reusable Scrolls
Aura see text; CL x2 the level of the scroll;
Slot Scroll; Price 500gp (1st), 1,800gp (2nd), 4,000gp (3rd), 7,000gp (4th), 11,000gp (5th), 16,000gp (6th), 22,000gp (7th), 28,000gp (8th), 36,000gp (9th); Weight -
DESCRIPTION
These scrolls are made out of a high quality thin, yet supple leather. A spell inked onto this scroll only costs half as much as normal. There are 9 different levels of scrolls. A scroll of a given level may have a single spell of any level up to the maximum level of the scroll. So for example a 4th level scroll may have a single spell of any level up to 4th on it.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS
Cost 250gp (1st), 900gp (2nd), 2,000gp (3rd), 3,500gp (4th), 5,500gp (5th),8,000gp (6th), 11,000gp (7th), 14,000gp (8th), 18,000gp (9th); Feats Scribe Scroll, Craft Wondrous Item; Spells Spell to be scribed;
Scroll Book
Aura see text; CL none;
Slot Scroll; Price 200gp; Weight -
DESCRIPTION
This is a book where each page is a single scroll. Using the book requires a certain amount of time. If the book contains fewer than 5 scrolls it is a free action. If the book contains 10 or fewer scrolls it takes a move action to find the scroll. If a book contains more than 10 scrolls it takes a full round action to find and cast the desired scroll.
Normal Scrolls Cast from the book crumble to dust after cast. Reusable scrolls simply become blank and a new spell may be scribed onto it only if it is first removed from the book. Permanent scrolls function as normal and neither crumble nor fade with use.
A scroll book can hold a maximum of 20 scrolls.
It takes 1 hour to add or remove one or more scrolls from a scroll book. A scroll may not be added to the book if it contains more than one spell.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS
Cost 1/3 Price; Feats none; Spells none; Skills Bookmaking DC 20;
Scroll Book of Speed
Aura see text; CL 5th
Slot Scroll; Price 2,000gp; Weight -
DESCRIPTION
This scroll book is like a normal scroll book except that it is magically enchanted to automatically turn to the scroll that a caster desires to cast. If the scroll sought is not in the book then it turns to the closest spell to the one sought.
Using a scroll book of speed is always a free action to retrieve the spell desired. But a caster must still cast the scroll as normal.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS
Cost 1,000gp; Feats Scribe Scroll, Craft Wondrous Item; Spells locate object;
The ability to chirp and have your master understand you does not imply the ability to speak a command word.The familiar will have to be able to speak to activate command word items. Better have a raven or thrush familiar.If the master is 5th level or higher, a familiar and the master can communicate verbally as if they were using a common language. Other creatures do not understand the communication without magical help.Any familiar works at level 5 and up.
And who says that chirp is not the correct word in the secret language you share?
Activate Blindly: Some magic items are activated by special words, thoughts, or actions. You can activate such an item as if you were using the activation word, thought, or action, even when you’re not and even if you don’t know it.
Use a Wand, Staff, or Other Spell Trigger Item: Normally, to use a wand, you must have the wand’s spell on your class spell list. This use of the skill allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. Failing the roll does not expend a charge.
Actually, UMD does not require you to speak the command word.
Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it’s even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell. This is the case even for a character who can’t actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin. The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
This does not say that the word must be a particular word. Otherwise, all those wands that you find or buy will need to be researched before you know the correct word to activate. Does that happen in your campaign? Or is the trigger word always found on the item somewhere? The only time this happens to me was on a named item, not a generic one.
And also the story feat Artifact Hunter that lets you take 15 once or twice a day.If your GM is fine with retraining your familiar to have a STORY feat specifically devoted to activating all the magic items... well, more power to you, I guess. I wouldn't imagine that to be a common stance, though.
Well, the OP was not talking about familiars. This feat was for the OP.
/cevah
The spells detect magic, identify, and analyze dweomer all reveal command words if the properties of the item are successfully identified.
Not going to answer everything here, to try avoiding an internet argument.
Quote the entire rule. For activating blindly, you still need to speak. The standard "use as if it's on your list" bit doesn't have anything removing the need to speak, either.Activate Blindly: Some magic items are activated by special words, thoughts, or actions. You can activate such an item as if you were using the activation word, thought, or action, even when you’re not and even if you don’t know it. You do have to perform some equivalent activity in order to make the check. That is, you must speak, wave the item around, or otherwise attempt to get it to activate.Actually, UMD does not require you to speak the command word.
Don't add to the quote either.
The rule is "speak" not "speak the command word".It also states "as if you were using the activation word, ... even if you don’t know it."
This does not say that the word must be a particular word. Otherwise, all those wands that you find or buy will need to be researched before you know the correct word to activate. Does that happen in your campaign? Or is the trigger word always found on the item somewhere? The only time this happens to me was on a named item, not a generic one.Yes, an item has a particular command word. The word may or may not be written on the item - that's part of what the Spellcraft check to ID it is for.
Actually, Spellcraft is for identifying the properties, not the command words. You need Identify for command words. Except the Identify spell mechanically only acts liked a buffed Detect Magic which only identifies auras and properties but not command words. Basically, it is a chaotic mish-mash as to how command words are determined.
/cevah
EDIT: Reread Detect Magic.
(link for how to figure out command words)
Not much of a chaotic mish-mash after all. : D But it would have been nice if they'd reproduced this information in detect magic's spell description.
(link for how to figure out command words)
Not much of a chaotic mish-mash after all. : D But it would have been nice if they'd reproduced this information in detect magic's spell description.
That link has the following:
If no activation method is suggested either in the magic item description or by the nature of the item, assume that a command word is needed to activate it. Command word activation means that a character speaks the word and the item activates. No other special knowledge is needed.
The Knowledge (arcana) and Knowledge (history) skills might be useful in helping to identify command words or deciphering clues regarding them. A successful check against DC 30 is needed to come up with the word itself. If that check is failed, succeeding on a second check (DC 25) might provide some insight into a clue. The spells detect magic, identify, and analyze dweomer all reveal command words if the properties of the item are successfully identified.
Well, it states the spells get the command word if you get the properties.
However, this is for command word activated items. A wand is a spell trigger item. It uses different rules. Read the paragraph just above the link, and you see no info on command words. :-/
Still a mish-mash.
/cevah
Huh. I'll be damned, but now I can't find any reference stating that wands have command words at all. *shrug*
well, I did find this.
Regardless of the type of puzzle, the answer should mean something. Perhaps the answer is the command word to a powerful wand, or the riddle of the three gems results in the players ending up with a magical treasure.
That being said, once the familiar picks up the ability "speak with master" it should be able to use the "activate spell trigger" option of UMD. This is because the words used to activate magic items never seems to be tied to any particular language. If the command word is "fire" for example, that information is enough to use the item. If speaking the word in a different language was required then every spell trigger item would have a language tag associated with it. Also, some items would be impossible to use without having the second tongue trait. Since characters without it would be physically unable to speak the proper command word.
Also, the familar is actually speaking since even though the ability is called speak with master, a familiar can speak with someone other than it's master via magical aide (eg. comprehend languages, tongues).