Buried at the back of the weapon fusion list in the Armory is the Soulfire infusion, which when attached to a Solarian Weapon Crystal (and, in fact, can only be attached to said Crystals) makes the Solar Weapon that crystal empowers add the Solarian’s Charisma modifier to damage.
The fusion itself is level 1, and the armory also includes level 1 weapon crystals, which means that Solarians can now go their entire career adding two ability modifiers to their melee damage rolls.
I remember that back when Starfinder was first released, there were several posters who believed that a Solarian would be better served buying an advanced melee weapon rather than using the class-granted solar weapon. With this seal, that’s probably no longer the case.
Nice.
Anyone willing to do the math to confirm the assertion made by the OP?
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Anyone willing to do the math to confirm the assertion made by the OP?
In terms of raw damage, the Solarian weapon varied from slightly behind to slightly ahead of equivalent level weapons. The biggest complaint was at 1st level when you could buy a 1d8 damage reach weapon (2nd level item, but cheap enough to afford at 1st).
However at 1st with a Solar Weapon you can get 1d6+1 (Crystal) + 2 (14 Charisma) = 1d6+3, which is the equivalent of 1d12 in terms of average damage. Which matches the highest damage advanced melee weapon available at 1st level, the unwieldy Tactical Doshko. If you happen to have a 16 or 18 charisma starting, its even better for that given Solarian.
So in terms of raw damage output under favorable conditions, Solar Weapons can be argued the best weapons in the game now. They were always very close to the damage output of advanced melee weapons, sometimes slightly behind and sometimes slightly ahead, so an additional +2 to +9 will definitely put them at the top of damage for KAC weapons.
Still can't get some weapon qualities, like reach on it, but with the addition of Solarian powers which make your weapon gain the Disarm trait for example, its possible down the line we'll see further options which make it possible to get things like Block and Reach.
It also interestingly makes builds with maximized Charisma (i.e start with 18 Charisma and give Charisma the largest personal upgrades) more viable.
A Lashunta could for example, start with Str 14/Dex 12/Con 10/Int 10/Wis 8/Cha 18. Assuming heavy armor proficiency as 1st level feat, its used to be only able to get +3 to hit and 1d6+4 damage in photon mode. However, now they can get 1d6+8 damage, which is over 50% more damage at 1st. A maximized strength build is only getting a more modest 20% boost or so at 1st.
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I think the Solar Weapon already did enough damage. The Soulfire fusion makes the class better. But the Solar Weapon manifestation still faces the same problem--the class is too MAD to focus on a high Dex score for defense. Generally, you should take the Heavy Armor Proficiency feat if you choose the Solar Weapon.
Don't get me wrong. I think the Soulfire fusion is great, and Solarians needed some love. I'm happy Paizo gave Solarians another use for their Chr bonus.
Where I feel Solarians have problems is in the skills department, especially in Starship combat. The Soulfire fusion will help Solarians who want to be Captains in starship combat because they can focus more heavily on Charisma. But I'm not a big fan of the Captain role. Starship combat revolves primarily around Dex and Int skills, and those are difficult for Solarians to focus on if they choose the Solar Weapon manifestation.
If Solarians could somehow add their Chr bonus to gunnery checks, that would be amazing. I think that would just about fix the class for me.
Now here is an idea. A cha dex build. With the loss in str you can still do the damage needed if you can make your solar weapon operative. This would be great! Better initiative and ac. You could be a dodge tank and still put out the damage.
Now here is an idea. A cha dex build. With the loss in str you can still do the damage needed if you can make your solar weapon operative. This would be great! Better initiative and ac. You could be a dodge tank and still put out the damage.
An interesting concept to be sure!
Now here is an idea. A cha dex build. With the loss in str you can still do the damage needed if you can make your solar weapon operative. This would be great! Better initiative and ac. You could be a dodge tank and still put out the damage.
Unfortunately, there’s no way to do this yet. I can imagine there might be a way in the future, though.
Full soulfire text below:
The soulfire fusion (and soulfire fusion seals) can only be applied to solarian weapon crystals. When you hit a target with a solar weapon augmented by a solarian weapon crystal with the soulfire fusion, you add your Charisma bonus to the damage done, in addition to your Strength bonus.
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It says your adding your strength bonus, or in addition to your strength bonus. So a Solarian can start with high strength and a lovely charisma (pretty personable, I'd say), and combine the damage of both with the soulfire fusion at level 1.
The soulfire fusion can be added to higher level solarian weapon crystals, and you still be allowed to do damage based on how strong and personable you are.
I am still mildly with Jasque. Solarians largest weakness wasn't damage, it was skills. +Str and Cha helps the weapon Solarian compete with the 1.5× Str of Melee Striker Soldiers, but it almost feels like a... Why? Solarians have so many other abilities why do they need to compete with damage per round only classes?
Honestly I still prefer the armor Solarian. Through just class abilities you can get DR/ER to everything by level 5 on Graviton builds (plus all three good saves). So you end up a damage sponging CC monster that can't be ignored. With new advanced melee Operative weapons, you can also go full Dex focus if you really want, filling that Gunner role if that's your jam.
Don't misunderstand me, I do like the Soulfire fusion. It's an interesting incentive for the weapon Solarian when they added three armor-only Revelations (including ER 5/10 to Sonic and Electric available lvl 2... Not the most common damage types but that's most of the damage you'll take from those two types before level 6+), it just doesn't feel like it addresses what Solarians were really lacking.
I think the Solar Weapon already did enough damage. The Soulfire fusion makes the class better. But the Solar Weapon manifestation still faces the same problem--the class is too MAD to focus on a high Dex score for defense. Generally, you should take the Heavy Armor Proficiency feat if you choose the Solar Weapon.
Don't get me wrong. I think the Soulfire fusion is great, and Solarians needed some love. I'm happy Paizo gave Solarians another use for their Chr bonus.
Where I feel Solarians have problems is in the skills department, especially in Starship combat. The Soulfire fusion will help Solarians who want to be Captains in starship combat because they can focus more heavily on Charisma. But I'm not a big fan of the Captain role. Starship combat revolves primarily around Dex and Int skills, and those are difficult for Solarians to focus on if they choose the Solar Weapon manifestation.
If Solarians could somehow add their Chr bonus to gunnery checks, that would be amazing. I think that would just about fix the class for me.
It is nice that it lets them possibly back off a bit on going all in on STR and still be able to do really good damage and also now have better DC for their powers and enough resolve points to do stuff with. Having options is good especially for a class pulled in a lot of directions stat wise.
Where I feel Solarians have problems is in the skills department, especially in Starship combat. The Soulfire fusion will help Solarians who want to be Captains in starship combat because they can focus more heavily on Charisma. But I'm not a big fan of the Captain role. Starship combat revolves primarily around Dex and Int skills, and those are difficult for Solarians to focus on if they choose the Solar Weapon manifestation.
If Solarians could somehow add their Chr bonus to gunnery checks, that would be amazing. I think that would just about fix the class for me.
Unless I am missing something you don't have to even get Str until lvl5 now. Why not just focus on Dex and Cha? Then you have the ability to go Int or go pilot/gunnery.
HumanStr 10
Dex 16
Con 10
Int 12
Wis 10
Cha 15
SOULFIRE
When you hit a target with a solar weapon augmented by a solarian weapon crystal with the soulfire fusion, you add your Charisma bonus to the damage done, in addition to your Strength bonus.
The addition means you don't have to get Str at all right? This allows those people who want to be the fast ninja type solarians be just that.
I am still mildly with Jasque. Solarians largest weakness wasn't damage, it was skills. +Str and Cha helps the weapon Solarian compete with the 1.5× Str of Melee Striker Soldiers, but it almost feels like a... Why? Solarians have so many other abilities why do they need to compete with damage per round only classes?
They aren't trying to compete. They are now given the option to not be so MAD. If you go back in the forum posts this is exactly what everyone was asking for. As I see it now (Again, unless I am missing something) they can focus on one less attribute. Now you don't NEED to go Heavy Armor. As long as you buy a solarian crystal and the soulfire weapon fusion you can now use Cha for damage and still keep you Resolve points.
Thanks Paizo!
They aren't trying to compete. They are now given the option to not be so MAD. If you go back in the forum posts this is exactly what everyone was asking for. As I see it now (Again, unless I am missing something) they can focus on one less attribute. Now you don't NEED to go Heavy Armor. As long as you buy a solarian crystal and the soulfire weapon fusion you can now use Cha for damage and still keep you Resolve points.
Thanks Paizo!
The problem is you don't use Cha for attack bonus. The Solar Weapon doesn't have the Operative quality (which some Advanced Melee niw do, so you can do the full Dex Armor Solarian with some beefier weapons if you don't mind 1/2 Specialization) so you still need that Str in order to hit targets.
Using my Envoy as a comparison, I have a +3 to hit at level 3, 2 BAB and +1 Str. I hit incredibly seldomly against any difficult opponent, and a non-Str Weapon Solarian would be batting the same (or +4 with Weapon Focus).
EDIT: What this does is not remove the MAD (which my position on the matter is still it's not really a problem, the class gets along fine with 3 14s), but instead damage-wise make half-investment feel like full investment damage. That 2 14 for Str and Cha will still get the melee +4 damage of full 18 Str Soldier-type.
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Yeah, with the MAD on the Solarian, I'm just going to give them the Both the Weapon and the Armor, make the Weapon Operative, and make Soulfire's Effect as Part of the Weapon as well. Its bad when a class already needs an Unchained Version Right Off the Bat when it comes to MAD issues.
A class should not need to Dip to be Viable ever
Yeah, with the MAD on the Solarian, I'm just going to give them the Both the Weapon and the Armor, make the Weapon Operative, and make Soulfire's Effect as Part of the Weapon as well. Its bad when a class already needs an Unchained Version Right Off the Bat when it comes to MAD issues.
A class should not need to Dip to be Viable ever
Have you or your players actually played one yet?
Have you or your players actually played one yet?Yeah, with the MAD on the Solarian, I'm just going to give them the Both the Weapon and the Armor, make the Weapon Operative, and make Soulfire's Effect as Part of the Weapon as well. Its bad when a class already needs an Unchained Version Right Off the Bat when it comes to MAD issues.
A class should not need to Dip to be Viable ever
I have, just to be clear on my point. I've played two, though went Armor both times for preference reasons. The one used a Pike, the other I wanted to try the Polarity Gauntlets and see if an Operative weapon could still viably work on a non-Operative (results are still up in the air, my to-hit is off the charts due to full BAB, I'm still attacking with Str as it and my Dex are currently even at +2, and I get to target EAC).
But yeah, in practice their "MAD issues" aren't a problem in the system they're in. Levels 1-4 can be a little rough, but you get so much ability boost by 5 that it really doesn't matter.
Its less of an issue that after 5 its fine but more of a matter that the players i have will probably not want to play a character as MAD as that, especially if its because of a stat like Charisma.
Appealing to my player base may be bad, but when its spread out like that, its good for one thing and one thing only, Beat Stick
Also, with the ability of my Players when it comes to character Building...
Lets just say they have a SwordSage, a Psychic Warrior, and an Artificer and I had a Monk and I was better in Combat and Out
While the MADness of solarians isn't as bad in actual play as it is often assumed to be on the boards, it is still disappointing that some extra value was added to CHA, but only for the half of solarians that chose the weapon.
half of solarians that chose the weapon.
*dog headtilt*
seems like everyone wants the lightsaber
Its less of an issue that after 5 its fine but more of a matter that the players i have will probably not want to play a character as MAD as that, especially if its because of a stat like Charisma.
Appealing to my player base may be bad, but when its spread out like that, its good for one thing and one thing only, Beat Stick
It's true.
I homeruled them to be WIS based (and mystics are CHA based), and that helps a bit. Solarians sound more introspective while mystics look more empathic anyway for me, and CHA has been the stat for spellcasting through "connection" with the universe in PF too (oracles or sorcerers, some mind-based magic like mesmerists, and also Use Magic Device).It really helps them with Will save only, it's not that much. I don't think the base class is inviable at all.
In any case, we had a brief blitzlarian for a few levels in Dead Suns, and we started the other day a starfinder version of Skull Serpent (but in space!) which will develop into Skull and Shackles (but in space!), and there's a full solarian there. I think he'll be more than viable, let's see.
I also thought about CON. It will fill all the grid of resolve/ability pairings (if you leave Wisdom for Mystics), but finally I thought simmetry is less important than fit, and WIS sound better in my mind.
However, I'm in doubt yet. I've seen a few player created solarians who weren't "jedi-like" in approach (balanced, wise, etc). A gladiator with cosmic powers isn't Obiwan. Con might help to open the solarian theme a bit, and also make them tankier, which is a concern with a class that has lowish DEX and light armor by default. CON fits well with graviton builds too.
I might think about it.
half of solarians that chose the weapon.*dog headtilt*
seems like everyone wants the lightsaber
That's why I play a solarian.
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That's why I play a solarian.half of solarians that chose the weapon.*dog headtilt*
seems like everyone wants the lightsaber
I roll my stats in order - didn’t get a great Wisdom, so mystic would have been a challenge.
There are some fun deflection abilities in the game to protect against that sort of thing, but they tend to be high level, limited in function, and do nothing for stupidity.
I've been playing a Solarian with a 1 level dip into Blitz Soldier and Soulfire wouldn't be enough to change my mind. Dumping Charisma let me do so much more with Strength and Dex it's absurd. The bonus speed and armor from that dip are also indispensable.
Damage has not been a problem so far, surviving in melee has been though, and trading out a level of Solarian progression in order to live to reach the next level seems like a no brainer to me.
A charisma based Solarian is going to play a whole lot more cautiously than I would expect a melee class to play.
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I disagree with WatersLethe. I was up front, and drawing the vast majority of enemy fire, and melee attacks (why does everyone react along the lines of 'take down the Vesk'?), and yet only had any health issues with facing a gang boss and bodyguard. And even then, I took them both down face to face with my claw. The Soulfire fusion greatly assisted me in this.
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I disagree with WatersLethe. I was up front, and drawing the vast majority of enemy fire, and melee attacks (why does everyone react along the lines of 'take down the Vesk'?), and yet only had any health issues with facing a gang boss and bodyguard. And even then, I took them both down face to face with my claw. The Soulfire fusion greatly assisted me in this.
"Take down the vesk" is ALWAYS good advice when they are in the front line, because they will MESS YOU UP otherwise.
My very first SFS adventure I walked out into the open from a fortified position and punched the Shobhad caster for a significant percentage of her health; she blew two Mind Thrusts and her ysoki buddy shot me with a laser to bring me down.
Of course, bringing down the vesk didn't help the fact that they were standing in the open with no cover to all of my companions, who shot them up.
I guess the lesson is, if the vesk show up, you should just run away.