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As above, I'm creating an archer Inquisitor. I'm currently deciding between human and half orc, leaning human because I could really use the extra feat, not to mention extra spells.
The main decision I'm facing is between two archetypes, Ravener Hunter and Sanctified Slayer. I think I can take both of these actually, but that may not be a good idea.
My goal is maximum DPR, while not trading away the feel of playing an Inquisitor.
Ravener trades away my domain, but gives access to Wood Bond. I get all cleric spells with the good descriptor (any good ones I don't already get?). I also get Demon Hunter which seems really situational, and lose a teamwork feat. Solo tactics gets delayed until 6th level.
Sanctified Slayer trades away judgments altogether, to get the Slayer's studied target entire class feature. I also get sneak attack at 4th level and four Slayer talents starting at 8th level.
I've never played an Inquisitor, so I'm not exactly sure how to weigh the various benefits with what I'm giving away. Recommendations?
Sanctified Slayer is good.
For a ranged Inquisitor, I really like the Spellbreaker archetype and the Spellkiller Inquisition as the domain, personally.
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I like sanctified slayer + ravener hunter. Sneak attack is mostly useless except to study as an immediate action. Which you can do often with dex and wis to init. Use heighten awareness to boost that further.
Divine favor/power are your key buff spells.
Sanctified slayer gets you ranger combat styles, which you can use then use Extra Slayer Talent to get more feats from. This will get you point blank master or improved precise shot.
Ravener hunter looks like it's meant to be for catfolk.
As for good [good] spells - Burst of radiance and chains of light are debuff spells worthy of note if you're going for a high wisdom rather than just enough to cast your buff spells. Angelic aspect and the lesser version are packages of minor buffs you cast as one spell. Eaglesoul is similar but you cast it well in advance (1 hour/level) but the actual effect only lasts one combat. And wall of silver is the best wall you can have as an archer.
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Ravener hunter looks like it's meant to be for catfolk.
As for good [good] spells - Burst of radiance and chains of light are debuff spells worthy of note if you're going for a high wisdom rather than just enough to cast your buff spells. Angelic aspect and the lesser version are packages of minor buffs you cast as one spell. Eaglesoul is similar but you cast it well in advance (1 hour/level) but the actual effect only lasts one combat. And wall of silver is the best wall you can have as an archer.
According to the sourcebook it is not a racial archetype. That book was a bit confusing because things were broken up by race but not everything was race restricted. You can see this reflected in the PFS rules.
Good spell suggestions. One note wall of silver is already an inquisitor 5 spell.
I've got a Half-Orc Inquisitor with both of those archetypes that focuses on archery. I haven't played her yet but her build seems pretty solid. Here's a link to the level 9 sheet I made as a backup for my current game. Her stats are rolled for this.
https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1534463
And this is a link to the description of the item Stag's Helm. It gives you +2 on Perception and once a day allows you to make a ranged sneak attack when you normally wouldn't get a sneak attack.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/h-l/helm- stag-s-helm/
Personally I would not bother with the Ravener Hunter
Holy magic simply adds the spells to your spell list. It does not however give you extra spells known; it simply allows you to choose those spells as part of your spells known. You are still limited to the number of spells know like any other inquisitor. This does not really add any power to the character which is why you don’t trade anything away for it. Notice it says this ability alters your spell list, not it alters your spells known.
Losing your domain for a single revelation is probably a down grade. Some of the domains give you very good abilities, but really look at the inquisitions instead.
Demon Hunter is as you said very situational and unless the campaign focuses on demons it is probably not worth it.
Sanctified Slayer is a little better.
Studied attack and sneak attack can give you a decent boost to your damage. Gaining slayer talents is also useful. But judgements are incredibly versatile and allow the inquisitor to easily adjust to multiple different situations. The ability to mix and match bonuses is one of the inquisitors biggest advantages. The abilities you gain are about equal to those you give up so what it really comes down to is what is important to you.
Half orc is your best choice for race. One problem with the inquisitor is that they are a ¾ BAB class so do not qualify for many of the combat feats at first level. Half orcs also get darkvision and proficiency with great axes and falchions. This gives you a couple of good melee weapons even if your deity has a poor favored weapon. Since a half orc counts as boot human and orc they can take the favored class bonus of either race as well as their own. The half orc favored class bonus is actually pretty decent. With it the half orc inquisitor can get intimidate to an absurd level. Max out intimidate and your half orc inquisitor will have a +25 to intimidate without any other bonus. You will also get a +5 to monster lore.
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Also it's two revelations. One at 1st level, one at 8th.
Thanks for everyone's responses.
I really like the idea of wood bond and wood armor, though I haven't even looked at armor yet. I hadn't considered that sneak attack damage would be pretty useless, which is a bummer. I like the idea of taking the "gang up" feat to try to mitigate that (should be a teamwork feat dang it), but don't think it'd be worth it given the prereq's. Sniping is the only option I can think of, don't know how feasible that is either.
I've never played a slayer so I don't know anything about slayer talents, let alone what determines their DC's. Ranger combat style does sound good, along with PBM and IPS, thanks! I think I'll take both archetypes.
Thanks for the spell suggestions also. On that note, I'm having some issues with stat distribution. He's a human, and I'm sure I want an 18 Dex (with racial bonus). Level 6 spells come online kinda late, maybe I can do without those, but I want a wisdom of at least 15. Here's what I'm thinking:
Str 10, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 15, Cha 10.
I'd love some feedback about stats.
J
Fate's favored with half-orc sacred tattoo and half-orcs scent are the main reasons I'd vote for half-orc as race. And you might take a bite attack if you want to.
I'd change the stats to at least Str 14. Dex doesn't have to be that high since you'll hit pretty well with judgement and Divine Favor (plus Fate's favored trait).
I don't like Sanctified Slayer because you give up your judgements... that make you hit better, with more damage, against any DR ... or give you energy resistance/DR/AC/save bonuses...
All that you'll lose for sneak attack and a small bonus with studied target.
Personally when I made my archer Inquisitor I play an unarchetyped Inquisitor with the Chivalry Inquisition to grant me a mount and played a mounted archer.
Sanctified Slayer is nice, but I had just played a Ranger archer so I didn't want to go through combat style again.
That being said, while the combat style feats are great, I don't think they're 100% necessary when you can play as a mounted Inquisitor. Your mount will give you mobility to stay away from your enemies.
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My top head slot item for many archers has become animal mask for scent and pheromone arrows. Inquisitors can be a little tight on Swift actions though.
FYI, Inquisitors do get access to Bloodhound (level 2 spell), which is hour/level scent (30'). For the sake of a spell known, or even a Page of spell knowledge (slightly more expensive at 4k vs the 2.7k of the mask) you can get a minimum of 4 hours of scent vs 5 minutes; this does use a spell slot. Runestones of power are not cheap, but 8000 gp at higher levels for 8+ hours of scent, always on (no swift action activation) seems like a good trade.
Thanks for the feedback. For some mechanical but mostly fluff reasons I've decided on human for the race. There are great reasons for half-orc, and I know what they are, but I'm going with human. Definitely taking Fate's Favored. Thanks for the creative idea Wicky, sounds great! Just ultimately not what I'm going for, I really want to be an inquisitor.
Here are my modified stats:
Str 14 Dex 18 Con 12 Int 8 Wis 14 Cha 10
My thought process: I'll get a headband of inspired wisdom, they're only 4k. Since that's the case, I don't need a Wis of 15. I lowered my Con, since as a ranged char I won't be (hopefully) taking a ton of damage. That allows me to keep my Dex up, and raise my Str as well. Not worried about an 8 int since I get the extra skill rank for being human. Important Dex is 18, I want to be able to hit, especially as a 3/4 BAB.
Thanks for the info on Bloodhound spell, I like it!
Argh, just when I'd decided on Ravener Hunter GL throws Chivalry at me! Couldn't I get more options for mounts if I took the feather subdomain? Wouldn't I need to take feats like mounted combat, mounted archery, narrow frame? Mobility would be nice, as would an attack if an enemy tried close-quarters combat. I don't want something to ride that's bigger than a Large creature, since I want him in dungeons with me. AND he would need to survive a fireball or lightning bolt spell. Is it worth it? If I got a good mount I could give up RH and take Spellbreaker, and still possibly take Sanctified Slayer...
J
Argh, just when I'd decided on Ravener Hunter GL throws Chivalry at me! Couldn't I get more options for mounts if I took the feather subdomain? Wouldn't I need to take feats like mounted combat, mounted archery, narrow frame? Mobility would be nice, as would an attack if an enemy tried close-quarters combat. I don't want something to ride that's bigger than a Large creature, since I want him in dungeons with me. AND he would need to survive a fireball or lightning bolt spell. Is it worth it? If I got a good mount I could give up RH and take Spellbreaker, and still possibly take Sanctified Slayer...
J
Feather domain is an option, it would get you a better animal companion list. However, it's also 3 levels behind which would almost necessitate Boon Companion feat (and archery is already very feat intensive). Chivalry inquisition allows you to get a horse companion which is perfect for what you really want it for. Don't try to turn your animal companion into an offensive powerhouse, you want your animal companion to be your mobile transportation and defender. And for that purpose a horse works just fine. Not to mention that with Chivalry domain your animal companion benefits from your judgement. Which can be pretty awesome. You don't need the feats mounted combat, or mounted archery, and narrow frame would be one for the companion to take not you. Give it the bodyguard archetype and you can get really defensive with it.
I will admit feather domain is pretty good alternative to Chivalry Inquisition, but the trades are basically needs boon companion vs can't have better (or flying) mount. Either way, my personal opinion is that a mounted archer Inquisitor is one of the most effective ways to play this kind of character.
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My experience has been the opposite of Claxon's. Have had very little cause to move around with my archers. Being able to move can negate soft cover bonuses but so can teamwork (though this is group and group composition dependent). The defensive abilities like being able to move away and bodyguard are solid advice.
I really like a grappling animal companion for archers. It further increases your DPR, prevent one enemy from getting to you, and makes them easier to hit. Titanoboa or Big cat are good choices.
The second choice for me is a flying mount. Though that might be a little higher for an Inquisitor one of the only casters without a long-term flight options.
You can stay ravener go nature (hourse/camel-who work with ranged teamwork feats) or lunar and get a better animal and a second revelation.
Apologies, Claxon, I said GL when I meant you in my previous post.
The whole goal of taking Ravener Hunter (for me) is to take wood for Wood Bond (and another revelation at 8th), so taking any other mystery defeats the point. RH doesn't otherwise appeal to me as an archetype.
There are definite advantages to having an animal companion, a mount or a grappler, but I just don't want to give anything more up to get it. Right now I'm thinking this is as good as I can do with this character? I want to maximize his chances to hit, DPR, without giving up survivability or too many of the abilities that making playing an inquisitor cool.
J
I can tell you that my personal experience was that with Fate's Favored working on Divine Favor / Divine Power, Judgements, and Bane I never really had much of a challenge hitting anything. Woodbond is nice for the competence bonus to hit things, it's hard to deny that.
Though I think trading it out for other tangibles, is worth it. It doesn't necessarily win the straight up DPR competition, but honestly Inquisitor archer is one of the best 3 martial damage builds, and the other competitors are Archer Warpriest and Archer Fighter (but not the archetype).
I'll try to remember when I get home to look at the archer Inquisitor I made for Rise of the Rune Lords and so I can tell you all the neat things it can do. Most of those tricks will probably apply regardless of whether or not you used Ravener Hunter or went for a base Inquisitor or even the Sanctified Slayer.
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Claxon has it right. Inquisitors don't have a problem hitting. The wood mystery does one of two things. It frees up your point buy to be more well rounded or to take more strength. Or, it makes you less dependant on Divine favour/divine power.
In that build thread, the inquisitor used a round to cast a spell (divine power) many other builds did not, meaning that it would not be until round three or four before before the inquisitor caught up and the fight would be long over before it caught up to the fighter that full attacks from round one.
With the additional accuracy wood bond you have more freedom to decide if attacking now, or next turn after casting a spell is the correct option.
archer inquisitor is nice because there's a teamwork feat that lets you ignore cover and solo tactics lets that work for you so you have improved precise shot via teamwork feat no hoops to jump through. This makes moving for cover issues basically non-existent.
Between normal or sanctified it's tough. Sanctified is nice as it lets you buff as a move action since you're swift gated but you need to do it for every target. Judgement starts off a little slower but ramps up nicely and last an entire fight. So largely depends on how high you plan on getting and how often you fight mobs vs big things.
the RH downside is delaying your fake Improved precise shot feat.
Glad I don't need to worry about hitting.
At this point the biggest decision might be if it's better for me to take a mystery or a domain. Wood mystery has been discussed, and I'm interested. Any other mysteries that are standout choices?
The only domains that tempt me are Liberation, Travel, and (possibly) Feather. I don't think there are any inquisitions that tempt me.
Isn't there a mystery or domain that can turns my attacks magic, for bypassing DR?
Edit: I was thinking of the smiting judgment
J
Getting some magic arrows is usually possible from very early on. Or you could cast magic weapon on your bow.
If you don't go with ravener hunter then the green faith marshal archetype opens up the druidic domains, like Eagle which would be decent for an archer.
Inquisitor (Sanctified Slayer/Green Marshal) :
1. Tons of skills
2. Very nice spells (fly, overland flight)
3. Able to study and Sneak attack
4. Slayer Talents!
5. bane ability!
6. Animal and terrain domain. Familiar eagle and half level to attacks 5 plus times a day.
7.Teamwork Feat
I want to make myself such an archer.
So I play one in PFS for close to 5 years now, he is almost lvl 11. Honestly when I started him people looked at me odd but stuck at it and he is probably one of the deadliest characters at the table. I did retrain and pick up Sanctified slayer.. I like the ability to use it whenever needed vs the times per day for judgement. I went feather domain, especially since I made the mistake of a 10 con.
Stats: Str 14, dex 18 con 10 int 12 wis 15 and cha 7
I have a +1 seeking longbow (+2 str) that I enchant to a +2 composite longbow. I keep heroism on myself and my pet and heightened awareness up. At the start of a encounter I will cast divine favor..either just on myself or split it in half with the pet (5 rds each) I am usually hitting at +21 (manyshot) +21/+16...with it going up 1 or 2 based on conditions. Each arrow hits at 1D8+1d6+16...not counting bane...I have clustered shot so dr doesnt matter anymore. Ac is low at 22 but the pet has a ac28...oh and the pet is +14 to hit bite/claw/claw/talon/talon at 1d6/1d4/1d8+12 each...honestly I try not to use the pet because it is kinda silly at this point
Sacred huntmaster archetype is another way to get a mount/animal companion. Losing solo tactics is fairly painful but you do get to keep bane at least.
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So I play one in PFS for close to 5 years now, he is almost lvl 11. Honestly when I started him people looked at me odd but stuck at it and he is probably one of the deadliest characters at the table. I did retrain and pick up Sanctified slayer.. I like the ability to use it whenever needed vs the times per day for judgement. I went feather domain, especially since I made the mistake of a 10 con.
Stats: Str 14, dex 18 con 10 int 12 wis 15 and cha 7
I have a +1 seeking longbow (+2 str) that I enchant to a +2 composite longbow. I keep heroism on myself and my pet and heightened awareness up. At the start of a encounter I will cast divine favor..either just on myself or split it in half with the pet (5 rds each) I am usually hitting at +21 (manyshot) +21/+16...with it going up 1 or 2 based on conditions. Each arrow hits at 1D8+1d6+16...not counting bane...I have clustered shot so dr doesnt matter anymore. Ac is low at 22 but the pet has a ac28...oh and the pet is +14 to hit bite/claw/claw/talon/talon at 1d6/1d4/1d8+12 each...honestly I try not to use the pet because it is kinda silly at this point
I don't know if you still get to play this character but PFS no longer allows familiars and animal companions on the same character. You will have to choose to leave on at home. :(
Nah he just has the one companion..sorry kept using the word pet :P
Ah forgot the pheromone arrows...so add +2 hit and damage. Studied target also has the added effect of a bonus to knowledge/bluff and sense motive...which can come into play in non-combat.
Also funny enough he is decent in melee now too, since the bonuses apply to both melee and ranged (obviously range is better)
Right now I'm pretty sold on Ravener Hunter. The only mystery that really tempts me is Time, for the Rewind Time and Temporal Celerity revelations. I'm just not sure that's enough to overcome Wood Bond (plus pheromone arrows, which are awesome!). Not sure what I'd want as my 8th lvl revelation...I guess it depends if Wood Armor stacks with regular armor or not?
J
Alright, here is my lvl 1 character:
Inquisitor
Male Human
Hit Points: 9
Initiative: +6
Speed: Walk 20 ft.
AC: 18 (touch 14, flatfooted 14)
Attacks: *Longbow +4;
Damage: *Longbow 1d8;
Saves: Fortitude: +3, Reflex: +4, Will: +4
Abilities: STR 14 (+2), DEX 18 (+4), CON 12 (+1), INT 8 (-1), WIS 14 (+2), CHA 10 (+0)
Feats: Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot
Possessions: Longbow; Outfit (Traveler's); Hide Armor; Backpack, Common; Bedroll; Rations (Trail/Per Day); Holy Symbol (Wooden); Holy Text (Cheap); Waterskin; Arrows (20); Spell Component Pouch;
Spells Known: Level 0: Detect Magic, Guidance, Light, Read Magic, Stabilize Level 1: Divine Favor, Shield of Faith
Overall I'm pretty happy. I'll do a lvl 5 and 10 build later on. I'm open for trait ideas, I've taken Reactionary and Fate's Favored, it's not uncommon for me to take three traits and a drawback.
I'm considering Adopted, if anything nice comes from that, maybe well-informed for the Knowledge Local. My fort save is a little low. If I'm missing anything obvious, let me know.
Alright, here is my lvl 1 character:
** spoiler omitted **
Overall I'm pretty happy. I'll do a lvl 5 and 10 build later on. I'm open for trait ideas, I've taken Reactionary and Fate's Favored, it's not uncommon for me to take three traits and a drawback.
I'm considering Adopted, if anything nice comes from that, maybe well-informed for the Knowledge Local. My fort save is a little low. If I'm missing anything obvious, let me know.
I personally hate having 20' speed. If this were my character, I'd go with a light armour since the AC isn't much lower and you're an archer who shouldn't be in melee anyway. Preserve your mobility IMHO.
I would go litany of sloth instead of shield of faith that way in a pinch you can move. Definitely go with light armor. Personally losing solo tactics until later, is a huge deal. Coordinated shot is a life saver early levels or heck even Friendly fire maneuvers.
One thing to remember is dont spend too much time buffing...and really divine favor will probably be your go to spell
By level 8 I'll probably take wood armor, so I'll have +6 armor (scales with level) with no max dex. Until then I suppose I could go studded leather or chain shirt.
Any other things you see, or trait ideas? I'll be working up lvl 5 and lvl 10 version soon.
Have you ever considered a 3 lvl multiclass into zen archer monk?
What are the benefits?
It's loaded with feats and feat equivalents, plus the saves & effective full BAB. Not totally sure I'd take the dip on any inquisitor, there’s so many things that'd stop advancing.
The problem with the inquisitor is the lack of bonus feat. You feat progression is going to be something like this:
1. PBS, PS
3. Rapid Shot
5. Deadly Aim
7. ???? you don't qualify for Manyshot or Clustered Shot
9. Manyshot
11. Clustered Shot
With a dip of 3 lvl into Unchained Zen Archer you could get 2 bonus feat of your choice, full bab, 1 more attack round when full attacking(doesn't stack with manyshot and rapidshot), wisdom to ac, wisdon to hit, fast movement 10 ft, Weapon Focus(a bow of your choice), Point Blank Master, Perfect Strike with bows, Improved Unarmed Strike.
As avr says, it's a tough choice too, you delay your class abilities progression.
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The monk dip is nice but honestly you might regret not getting bane at level 5 vs getting at level 8.
@ Alzhan you are missing some key things in your equation..spells and teamwork feats. Also I'm hoping JDawg is going sanctified slayer so breakdown is this:
1: PBS,PS Divine favor +2 hit/damage, Studied +1 hit damage.
3: Rapid shot, TW Friendly fire maneuver (allies no longer provide soft cover)
5. Deadly aim, Divine favor is now up to +3 h/d and studied is +2 h/d..plus bane..also the spell bloodhound for scent with pheromone arrows..+2 h/d.... so +7 hit/damage on two hits not adding the +2 h/d +2d6
7. Hmm tough call...extended bane, ranged disarm,ranged trip etcTw Coordinated shot (so +1 to hit if a ally is next it +2 if they are flanking) Lvl 3 spells Heroism (+2 to hit,+2 saves, +2 skills)
8.Slayer talent:combat trick: Manyshot
9. Clustered shot. Enfilading fire (another +2 to hit against a flanked opponent)
11. Honestly we are getting silly but hey divine interference Divine favor would be +4 hit/damage, studied would be +3 h/d...plus you get level 4 spells...eh improved invisibility..now they lose dex so you add +3d6 sneak attack
12..improved bane
Not even close imo
Wouldn't divine power be in there somewhere?
Zen Archer could be nice but I want my abilities sooner rather than later.
Also, which pet did you go with?
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Dippong is a poor option. Your stat array only become a little better a point of accuracy and damage maybe but your worse 1 and 2.
Next there is not Zen unchained you can't use core archetypes with unmonks. Finally even if this existed you can't use flurry and use archery feats it is one or the other "A zen archer cannot use Rapid Shot or Manyshot when making a flurry of blows with his bow."
Becuase you have to use a core Monk which states "For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus." You don't get many shot early.
This means in the end you get a stat array that let's you lower dex and increase wis. It does not let you dump dex because you need ref, initiative, and AC, so you trade these for a better will save.
You are losing all the class features the ekibus clearly lays out.
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Wouldn't divine power be in there somewhere?
Zen Archer could be nice but I want my abilities sooner rather than later.
Also, which pet did you go with?
Yep as soon as you 4th level spells, but even then you will divine favor more often. Haste + divine favor if good and saves a high level spell slot if someone in the group is casting haste. At first you save divine power for when you need it.
The problem with the inquisitor is the lack of bonus feat. You feat progression is going to be something like this:
1. PBS, PS
3. Rapid Shot
5. Deadly Aim
7. ???? you don't qualify for Manyshot or Clustered Shot
9. Manyshot
11. Clustered ShotWith a dip of 3 lvl into Unchained Zen Archer you could get 2 bonus feat of your choice, full bab, 1 more attack round when full attacking(doesn't stack with manyshot and rapidshot), wisdom to ac, wisdon to hit, fast movement 10 ft, Weapon Focus(a bow of your choice), Point Blank Master, Perfect Strike with bows, Improved Unarmed Strike.
As avr says, it's a tough choice too, you delay your class abilities progression.
Extended Bane. Extended Bane goes in that slot. It's not super awesome yet (because you don't yet have Greater Bane) but those extra rounds of bane basically make it so that you can use it on every round. +2 to attack and 2d6+2 damage is amazing for archers. Especially when you don't need to choose whether or not you should.
And if your GM allows retraining rules you should consider retraining the feat once you qualify for Manyshot. But eventually you're going to want Extended Bane anyways.
Honestly dipping on an Inquisitor is generally a bad idea in my opinion. Even with Zen Archer. While wis to attack sounds great, sacrificing 3 levels of progression of all your abilities isn't.
Besides, while more strength would be nice at lower levels for Inquisitors you can easily get by as an Inquisitor by just focusing on Dex and Wisdom. The bonus strength damage to attack is nice, btu eventually so much of your damage is derived from other sources that you wont care much about 1 or 2 points of damage from strength.
The only part about Zen Archer that is attractive to me is that quick acquisition of bonus feats. But it doesn't outweigh the malus of delayed progression of your main class.
Right now I mainly use divine power for bosses. Divine favor giving you 4 to hit and damage is a godly level 1 spell.
I have to admit, I went with a velociraptor. Mainly for the ring slot (ring of tactical precision: improved spell sharing) basically I cast divine favor, split the duration in half, study the opponent and velociraptor is pouncing. With feather domain I get +5 perception. I went light on gear so it has a +1 mithril chain shirt and a +1 amulet of mighty fist. Feats power attack, toughness, friendly switch, step up, toughness and item slot.