did you see the paladin?
DO - NOT - USE - THE - P - WORD!
Seriously, I'm a bit curious myself:-)
Which iconics did you see/play?
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I actually played the paladin :)
The party also included the iconic rogue, cleric, wizard, and fighter.
The paladin felt pretty familiar to me. It did have an ability called (if I remember correctly) Retributive Strike. I never got to use it, but it essentially allowed the paladin to immediately get an attack on an enemy if that enemy scored a critical on one of my allies. Unfortunately I was never close enough to use the ability ...
One thing that just occurred to me - I'm pretty sure I did not see Detect Evil on my character sheet
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What was the alignment of your Paladin?
Just bear in mind that if it was something else than LG, you better take a one week vacation from the forum :)
Well ...
None of our pregens had alignment listed. We of course asked about it pretty much immediately and Jason told us that was just an over site and we shouldn't read anything into it ...
a +1 cookie to Gorbacz
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I actually played the paladin :)
The party also included the iconic rogue, cleric, wizard, and fighter.The paladin felt pretty familiar to me. It did have an ability called (if I remember correctly) Retributive Strike. I never got to use it, but it essentially allowed the paladin to immediately get an attack on an enemy if that enemy scored a critical on one of my allies. Unfortunately I was never close enough to use the ability ...
One thing that just occurred to me - I'm pretty sure I did not see Detect Evil on my character sheet
Is regular, good old Smite Evil still around?
And did you get a chance to look at backgrounds?|
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I actually played the paladin :)
The party also included the iconic rogue, cleric, wizard, and fighter.The paladin felt pretty familiar to me. It did have an ability called (if I remember correctly) Retributive Strike. I never got to use it, but it essentially allowed the paladin to immediately get an attack on an enemy if that enemy scored a critical on one of my allies. Unfortunately I was never close enough to use the ability ...
One thing that just occurred to me - I'm pretty sure I did not see Detect Evil on my character sheet
Is regular, good old Smite Evil still around?
And did you get a chance to look at backgrounds?
Smite Evil was not on my character sheet ...
Backgrounds didn't come up really, although there were a few things already figured into the character sheets that may have come from backgrounds ...
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The fact that someone can fumble a DC10 check implies that Nat 1s are fumbles even if the DC isn't failed by 10 - I'm not sure I like that. I'd rather the +-10 rule replace nat 1/nat 20 for fumbles and crits and not be in addition to it - especially with skills. I really don't want Olympic class swimmers failing to stay afloat in calm water 5% of the time or people jumping to the moon 5% of the time. If it's just +-10 for crit you avoid that by setting the DC appropriately.Well, in that case just don't ask for a skill check and assume the character is taking 10 on his check, if you are the GM. If you are the player, just take 10.
And if you are in combat, you can just assume that the character failed the check because he was distracted, not because he cannot swim.
Taking 10 requires more explicit and defined rules and a GM willing to allow them - Hell, I've been in PFS games and been told not to Take 10 because it "isn't fun" and "any badly failed diplomacy can result in combat so you're always in danger"
Marc what can you tell us about spellcasting?
How was the spell list distributed?
How useful are spell now that they don't scale automatically?
When you augment them how much is the increase?
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Taking 10 requires more explicit and defined rules and a GM willing to allow them - Hell, I've been in PFS games and been told not to Take 10 because it "isn't fun" and "any badly failed diplomacy can result in combat so you're always in danger"
That’s bad GMing right there
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You're making a lot of assumptions here.
One of the biggest seems to be conflating Attacks of Opportunity with reactions in general. In one of the other threads it was mentioned that another GaryCon player mentioned paladins having a retributive strike (though now I'm thinking that might have actually been in this thread) that keyed off an enemy critting against an ally (and if crits are possible on pretty much everything including skills and not just attack rolls, that might actually be even more valuable than it would be in the current system), so presumably there's all kinds of reactions with different triggers available depending on your class. Fighters get an attack of opportunity as a reaction, paladins get a retributive strike, etc. That's not a bad thing, IMO, it actually helps each class stand out by having different things they can react to built into their chassis.
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One of the biggest seems to be conflating Attacks of Opportunity with reactions in general. In one of the other threads another GaryCon player mentioned paladins having a retributive strike that keyed off an enemy critting against an ally (and if crits are possible on pretty much everything including skills and not just attack rolls, that might actually be even more valuable than it would be in the current system), so presumably there's all kinds of reactions with different triggers available depending on your class. Fighters get an attack of opportunity as a reaction, paladins get a retributive strike, etc. That's not a bad thing, IMO, it actually helps each class stand out by having different things they can react to built into their chassis.
You're making a lot of assumptions here.
I played the paladin in our group and she did indeed have retributive strike, which worked as you describe.
I also saw a monster use a reaction to great effect - it was able to attack the fighter (if I remember correctly) as it's final blow during the fighter's turn as a reaction just as the fighter was making the killing blow against it!
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Marc what can you tell us about spellcasting?
How was the spell list distributed?
How useful are spell now that they don't scale automatically?
When you augment them how much is the increase?
There was not a lot of spell casting in our group for some reason. The cleric cast a Heal spell or two and, as mentioned earlier in this thread, was able to cast it as either a touch spell, a single-person ranged spell, or area of effect spell, depending on in she used 1, 2, or all 3 of her actions that turn to cast it. Pretty cool actually
Can you elaborate on the new initiative system? I hadn’t seen any explanation on how it is different yet.There is no separate initiative score. What you're doing at the start of the encounter (when you're in exploration mode, probably) determines what skill you roll for initiative.
So if a rogue is keeping to the shadows, he may roll a Stealth check for initiative. If a fighter is walking with her sword drawn, staying alert and looking for danger, she may roll a Perception check.
It's detailed a bit in the Glass Cannon podcast (part 1 - https://glasscannonpodcast.com/the-pathfinder-playtest-parts-1-and-2/)
35:04 (Exploration mode detailed a bit)
41:40 (Combat starts - explanation of new Initiative system)It also describes Perception in PF2 a bit.
Hopefully, Marc Radle can elaborate or give some more insight from his play experience.
I totally missed that in the podcast. This sounds REALLY cool! Thank you sharing.
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I just asked the design department if we can switch to a nonlinear d20—perhaps one numbered using the Fibonacci sequence. I was beaten soundly....if they continue to use a linear D20 to resolve skill checks.
I recall someone reviewing an RPG made by gamers in Soviet-era Czechoslovakia. Somewhere in it, it made players compute a gamma function.
There was not a lot of spell casting in our group for some reason. The cleric cast a Heal spell or two and, as mentioned earlier in this thread, was able to cast it as either a touch spell, a single-person ranged spell, or area of effect spell, depending on in she used 1, 2, or all 3 of her actions that turn to cast it. Pretty cool actuallyMarc what can you tell us about spellcasting?
How was the spell list distributed?
How useful are spell now that they don't scale automatically?
When you augment them how much is the increase?
What did the Wizard during the session?
One of the biggest seems to be conflating Attacks of Opportunity with reactions in general. In one of the other threads another GaryCon player mentioned paladins having a retributive strike that keyed off an enemy critting against an ally (and if crits are possible on pretty much everything including skills and not just attack rolls, that might actually be even more valuable than it would be in the current system), so presumably there's all kinds of reactions with different triggers available depending on your class. Fighters get an attack of opportunity as a reaction, paladins get a retributive strike, etc. That's not a bad thing, IMO, it actually helps each class stand out by having different things they can react to built into their chassis.
You're making a lot of assumptions here.
I played the paladin in our group and she did indeed have retributive strike, which worked as you describe.
I also saw a monster use a reaction to great effect - it was able to attack the fighter (if I remember correctly) as it's final blow during the fighter's turn as a reaction just as the fighter was making the killing blow against it!
Ooooo was it a Reefclaw (Giant blue Lobster thing)? They have an ability kinda like this already.
There was not a lot of spell casting in our group for some reason. The cleric cast a Heal spell or two and, as mentioned earlier in this thread, was able to cast it as either a touch spell, a single-person ranged spell, or area of effect spell, depending on in she used 1, 2, or all 3 of her actions that turn to cast it. Pretty cool actuallyMarc what can you tell us about spellcasting?
How was the spell list distributed?
How useful are spell now that they don't scale automatically?
When you augment them how much is the increase?
So is Heal now a different lower level spell than it currently is? Sounds like a mix of one of the Cure X spells and the Channel Energy class feature.
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So is Heal now a different lower level spell than it currently is? Sounds like a mix of one of the Cure X spells and the Channel Energy class feature.
...Cure Wounds? (ie, 5E..)
So is Heal now a different lower level spell than it currently is? Sounds like a mix of one of the Cure X spells and the Channel Energy class feature.That seemed to be the case. I heard or saw no mention of and cure light wounds spells.
Not sure I like that. The Cure x series (and Heal) are such iconic spells that tossing them just feels wrong. Likewise the mention of a healing potion apparently unconnected to spells seems like a step back to the AD&D way of doing it. I really like potions as spells in a bottle, not a completely separate thing.
Not sure I like that. The Cure x series (and Heal) are such iconic spells that tossing them just feels wrong. Likewise the mention of a healing potion apparently unconnected to spells seems like a step back to the AD&D way of doing it. I really like potions as spells in a bottle, not a completely separate thing.So is Heal now a different lower level spell than it currently is? Sounds like a mix of one of the Cure X spells and the Channel Energy class feature.That seemed to be the case. I heard or saw no mention of and cure light wounds spells.
Since spells scale if you cast them with an higher slot, it makes no sense to have different versions of the same one.
Since spells scale if you cast them with an higher slot, it makes no sense to have different versions of the same one.Not sure I like that. The Cure x series (and Heal) are such iconic spells that tossing them just feels wrong. Likewise the mention of a healing potion apparently unconnected to spells seems like a step back to the AD&D way of doing it. I really like potions as spells in a bottle, not a completely separate thing.So is Heal now a different lower level spell than it currently is? Sounds like a mix of one of the Cure X spells and the Channel Energy class feature.That seemed to be the case. I heard or saw no mention of and cure light wounds spells.
I can see that. Just have it as Cure Wounds that scales up. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. And Heal is also an iconic spell, does a huge amount of healing and fixes a bunch of conditions including Feeblemind which otherwise requires a limited wish, wish or miracle.
Clearly the only viable options are linear d20, quantum d20 that rolls all 20 results simultaneously and calculates all possible outcomes, roll a Klein bottle labeled with various numbers, call a relative and ask them to pick any number between 1 and 20, or draw from a deck of popsicle sticks numbered 1 to 20 without replacing until you draw a 20 or a 1.I just asked the design department if we can switch to a nonlinear d20—perhaps one numbered using the Fibonacci sequence. I was beaten soundly....if they continue to use a linear D20 to resolve skill checks.
Even light hearted mocking doesn't cover up the design failure when bringing back fumbles after nearly 20 years.
By linear the poster clearly meant that rolling a 1 has equal chance to rolling a 20 as opposed rolling 2d10 which gives you a normal distribution curve. Or rolling a 2 or 20 no longer has the chance as rolling an 11.
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I can see that. Just have it as Cure Wounds that scales up. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. And Heal is also an iconic spell, does a huge amount of healing and fixes a bunch of conditions including Feeblemind which otherwise requires a limited wish, wish or miracle.Since spells scale if you cast them with an higher slot, it makes no sense to have different versions of the same one.Not sure I like that. The Cure x series (and Heal) are such iconic spells that tossing them just feels wrong. Likewise the mention of a healing potion apparently unconnected to spells seems like a step back to the AD&D way of doing it. I really like potions as spells in a bottle, not a completely separate thing.So is Heal now a different lower level spell than it currently is? Sounds like a mix of one of the Cure X spells and the Channel Energy class feature.That seemed to be the case. I heard or saw no mention of and cure light wounds spells.
I can see your point, but it felt pretty elegant (at least, in the limited times I saw the spell cast)
I think this is one of those things we really need to wait for the actual playtest to test
I can see that. Just have it as Cure Wounds that scales up. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. And Heal is also an iconic spell, does a huge amount of healing and fixes a bunch of conditions including Feeblemind which otherwise requires a limited wish, wish or miracle.Since spells scale if you cast them with an higher slot, it makes no sense to have different versions of the same one.Not sure I like that. The Cure x series (and Heal) are such iconic spells that tossing them just feels wrong. Likewise the mention of a healing potion apparently unconnected to spells seems like a step back to the AD&D way of doing it. I really like potions as spells in a bottle, not a completely separate thing.So is Heal now a different lower level spell than it currently is? Sounds like a mix of one of the Cure X spells and the Channel Energy class feature.That seemed to be the case. I heard or saw no mention of and cure light wounds spells.I can see your point, but it felt pretty elegant (at least, in the limited times I saw the spell cast)
I think this is one of those things we really need to wait for the actual playtest to test
We also may well have a more powerful spell like Heal, along with the Cure Wounds that seems to have been condensed into a single spell.
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Condensing them all into one spell that scales up with the slot from which you cast it also fixes it so that druids and rangers stop having to wait an extra spell level for cure mod.
In many ways it feels like the less complicated inverse of undercasting from Occult (which is a great mechanic). I expect it will be applied to a whole host of other "spell chains" like the summon monster line and the restoration line and the [creature type] body lines. I like it.
