My 2nd Edition wishlist.


Prerelease Discussion

Liberty's Edge

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1) We need a treasure table. Treasure value based on CR doesn’t cut it, especially when GMing on the fly. We need the ability to roll up potential treasure items when we generate an encounter.

2) GP for XP.

3) Creature HD tied to creature size; creature combat/XP based on HD. Easily make a creature stronger by merely increasing HD, which in turn is reflected by XP reward. Creature special abilities have associated XP bonus, and creatures can be modified/advanced by giving them different special abilities.

For example: there is a group of attacking goblins, which are normally 1d6 HD. Instead of having all of them be the same, one can be made the group commander by giving it 3d6 HD and the ability to make two attacks in a round—and the XP associated with this special goblin is easily determined by looking up how much 3d6 gives and adding the XP bonus for the extra attack.

4) Generally, make things easier for the GM to run the game on the fly.

5) Character creation takes minutes, not hours.

6) Make rolling for stats relevant again by making the ability score modifiers non-linear. Rolling for ability scores is a core, fundamental element of creating a character. But, the bell-curve of the die rolls lose their importance when the modifiers are linear, thus leaving everyone to choose point-buy so they “don’t feel like they’re being left behind.

7) Treasure tables, quick character creation, fast and clear GM monster adjudication.


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1/3/4/7. These are all excellent. All references which help GMs on the fly aid player experience regardless of where you come from on the gaming spectrum, something which I hope Paizo recognizes.

2. There are enough games which aren't about treasure and more about narrative that I don't think this is tenable. *At best*, this could be a variant rule. It would cause an exodus if it were core.

5. This is something which I think is great, but will invariably be a split in Paizo's community of customization junkies. I say that with utter respect for both perspectives, I just think it's a really contentious point. I'd love to have both, somehow.

6. I've never understood the non-linear modifier argument. Even in earlier D&D-esque games, there were disagreements on how much ability scores should matter. I think the amount they matter at the end of the day has to do with how the GM runs the game, and is GM-side, rather than the math of the system (that is to say, system-side), unless some rather dramatic, system-wide changes are made. Simply doing this single change doesn't really alter the game for the better or the worse, is my view.


My wishlist:
stick with 1st edition


*1 hardcover bestiary per year assuming that this edition lasts ten years like 1E Pathfinder (300 monsters, with a balance of all creature types giving each type roughly 23 creatures per book)
*a line of hardcover books which stat up all the demigods and heralds from 1E Pathfinder
*a softcover bestiary every year assuming the same thing as with hardcovers
*a book of monsters from the Maelstrom created entirely by Todd Stewart
*all the stuff I put in 1E wishlists this past week without realizing Paizo is moving to 2E Pathfinder
*a line of books which give us all the races we learned to love over the six bestiaries and several race guides
*maybe consider continuing to make 1E books, so that I can still dream of having the fabled "Bestiary 25" that some people mentioned a long time ago in a forum far, far away


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1) Quickly reinventing the classes we love from 1E - mainly the base and the occult classes - into 2E's new rules set.

2) I hope there'll be no need to reprint all the six bestiaries, because it'll be possible to use 1E ones, just as we do with Starfinder.

These are my two greatest wishes for 2E.

Scarab Sages

1) Martial classes a bit more comparable in utility/damage to spellcasters, not the same, just comparable
2) At least a bit of theurge baked into core, whether reduced casting penalties for multiclassing or a way to dip into another casting type without wrecking progression
3) Racial traits that increase with level. Make species matter


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A convertion guide for all 30+ races, all 40 classes, all rules and all 6 Bestiaries within the first 2 years.

Seriously, I've bought around 50 books in digitasl format, so I've spent between $500 and $600. It would pretty stupid to tell players to throw away the books, just because the system needs an upgrade.

When 3.5E came around for D&D, WotC offered erratas for previous books. Paizo offered convertion rules for Starfinder so you can use your Pathfinder material.

They just released the Shifter and are currently revising it... only to throw away when 2E comes around?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I think reinventing the classes is a big one. Give Clerics charisma to cast, and Oracle features! Combine Arcanist with Wizard! New fun stuff for Sorcerers to make them truly unique! Fighters coukd once again be top of the game instead of overshadowed by Barbarians on the Martial front and Spellcasters on every other front! Potentially look into nerfing Druids Wild Shape and making Shifter an Archetype?

I think BAB has to be done away with- or at least, rebalanced.


Reimagine monsters to include the NPC classes. Expect them to have a class if possible.

Example: Hags with the Adept class. A very old class for very old monster.

Hags are supposed to be monstrous witches. Because of a lack of magic, I don't find them witchy; adding the Adept class solves that. She gets a few spells and maybe a familiar without overpowering her.

With that idea in mind, I hope they re-examine all monsters. Any creature with enough intelligence would probably have some class - NPC or otherwise.


A complete reevaluation of the spell lists.

•Tell me why Enchantment and Illusion both exist without sounding like you're trying to blow smoke up my bum ("one tricks your senses, the other tricks your mind!" ... yeah, my senses are ruled by my mind; try again!).
•Don't let things like Fear (emotional manipulation) end up in Necromancy and Acid Splash (direct elemental damage) end up in Conjuration.
•Cure and Resurrection not being Necromancy.
•Etc.

tl;dr - Whoever was responsible for sorting spells back in the days of 3rd Edition (or earlier, whatever) clearly used zero defined principles for sorting spells into schools and just threw stuff into schools based on a whim.
Now's your chance! Be objective and thoughtful this time around, please??

Relevant discussion link:
https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?816982-Pathfinder-Spells-that-Should-b e-Another-School


All classes should get a good amount of skill points.

Racial abilities/traits that scale with level. All races should have more then 3 racial abilities. Race choice should matter.

Dex to damage built into the rogue class. Also as an option for some other classes.

More sorcerer bloodline powers for each bloodline.

Gauntlets of ogre power making a comeback with both it and the Belt of Giant strength being minor artifacts. Also both of them stack.

No more cloaks of resistance and most stat boosting items.

If you are using weapon and armor enhancement bonuses for magic items make them based on character level. Example would be magic weapons/armor gain a +1 at level 4 and increase by +1 for every 4 levels beyond forth(maxing at +5 at level 20). Artifacts are at a +5 bonus regardless of level.

A lot more stat points gained by leveling.

A ring protection should stay as a static +2 bonus to AC and saves. Maybe has an ability to re-roll one save each day.

Natural 20 should always hit, even against concealment, mirror image, and other similar effects. Also should be an automatic critical.

Select spells that do provoke like shocking grasp, chill touch, and other melee combat spells or the evocation school in general.

Dark Archive

I just wish they aren't going to release updated version of so far released campaign setting books. If they would do that, chances of eventually getting Tian Xia books and books on more obscure regions would be small considering how long it took to get book on Nidal in first place.


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Also the fact that several places in the Inner Sea haven't gotten any love let alone most places outside the Inner Sea.

Hope it doesn't take long for the other classes and races to make it to 2e. I hope I am not disappointed in this editions versions.


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GP for XP. No, please...just no.


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I agree, no GP for XP. Also every class has the same XP rate to level up.


Classes should still get immunities, resistances, and other interesting defenses.

If a class or race gets a breath weapon let it work like monsters were you have no limit but the 1-4 round recharge wait.

Keep alignment.

Don't down play spells.

No more prestige classes, such things should be done through base classes and archetypes.

More non-armor based AC options.

Healing and resurrection type spells should go back to necromancy.

Add both Str mod and Con mod to fortitude saves.

Add both Int mod and Dex mod to reflex saves.

Add both Wis mod and Cha mod to will saves.

Instead of using stat enhancement items for casting just have magic items(circlets, third eyes, amulets, etc.) that grant static bonuses to caster level, save DCs, damage, area of effect, etc.

Keep HP as it, don't use anything like Starfinder's version.


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Introduce new player races in class/character focused books not in bestiaries.


Most of my list is around combat at the moment.


  • Raise the baseline ability of characters to start heroic feeling even if the low HP and dice variability makes it dangerous. If a class is proficient in something they should at least be OK at it - like using two weapons, a ranged weapon, throwing a weapon, etc. I know there's a lot of noncombat stuff this applies to, but the most obvious cases are just being able to use the weapons a class is supposed to use.
  • GREATLY improve maneuvers. Ideally, you should be able to make an attack and use a maneuver so you are not constantly weighing attempting a small action versus dealing the HP damage that a party is relying on. Either reduced damage to add an effect, or tie maneuvers to weapon damage to make weapon choice meaningful and allow a weapon use the maneuver as part of the typical damaging attack.
  • Remove hyper-specialization in weapons. It is terrible, and even 5e pushes a fighter - a master of all weapons - to only ever use a small number of weapons. Specialization should be how to make a gish-y wizard (if anything), not how to make a fighter.
  • Related to above, allow for carrying several powerful magical items without relying on your big 6. The best way this is done is simply by removing enhancement bonuses to magical weapons (or greatly reduce them). Make magic items to magical things and not abstract +X to roll things.
  • Make mundane equipment more fantastic, and the choice matter more. This was done well later in Pathfinder and needs to continue - and be extended to armor and weapons more.
  • De-emphasize stats, or at least the penalties. Pathfinder basically requires DEX, CON, and WIS for 90% of characters while CHA is relatively meaningless. The biggest issue is probably the negative modifiers combined with things like 2+INT skills, heavy armor, and save tracks. I don't have a great solution, but it's an old system that is showing its age.


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My wishlist :
- a magic system that doesn't bypass the skills
- less bonus types, if only all spells could have bonus type called magic
- no archetype that make a class irrelevant, there was too many archetypes that made the rogue irrelevant


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Still have feats anyone can get like cunning, dodge, iron will, skill focus, toughness, etc.

Liberty's Edge

Planpanther wrote:
GP for XP. No, please...just no.

Yes, please, yes.

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

[list]

  • Have all casters use the Spontaneous casting mechanic across the board (Memmed spells are considered "known" spells for the class)
  • Not have skills be like the "Trained or suck" mechanic. This is something that Starfinder has a bit of.

  • Liberty's Edge

    hiiamtom wrote:
    ...while CHA is relatively meaningless.

    If you want to make charisma mean something again, reintroduce henchmen and hirelings, morale rolls, the reaction adjustment table, and tie the amount of gold received from selling treasure to a percentage based on the charisma score.


    My primary wish is that it be an Upgrade and not a new game.

    If PF2 is a matter of taking some of thhe better optional rules that have come out over the years, polishing them and rebuilding the game around them I can live with that.

    The Action system seems to be something like that. Taking the Unchained system and bakeing it directly into the core so that it runs smoothly.

    That's the sort of upgrade I can get behind because it means converting my old stuff is about the same difficulty as it would have been using the Unchained version. It's just me making stuff fit the new system instead of me trying to make a new system fit the old game.

    THe initiative change is likewise something I can deal with cause it's like plugging a new option in. I could use it now if I wanted to.

    Skill changes...give me a conversion guide so I can easily shuffle old skills to new ones. Also fine

    Don't rebuild from the ground up, just move forward the way you did from 3.5 to Pathfinder.

    also don't be Starfinder. It's ok but it's not what I want


    My Wishlist
    1) Reduce the number of skills.
    2) Reduce the number of conditions.
    3) Reduce the number of bonus types.
    4) Add jumping power, swimming speed, poisonous slippy skin, and long tongue to adorable Grippli!


    Words of power made part of the core! More effect words! =D

    Elemental affinity racial traits being more broad! Every single racial element affinity racial trait is ONLY for sorcerer? WHY!?? Make it work for all spell casting classes! More variety!

    Magic casting that deviates from the typical formula of Vancian and 3+mod per day!

    More archetypes that change the primary ability modifier. I really like playing Ninjas using wisdom instead of charisma, I personally like it more.

    Better rules for the automatic firearms from reign of winter. I know not everyone likes firearms in pathfinder, but this isn't a video game, a DM can simply say "no".

    Combat maneuvers that are viable from get go! No feat tax just to be usable! I think this is going to be implemented already? Rolled as acrobatics?

    Actual psionics! DreamScarred Press makes outstanding content where even a healer looks fun to play. Paizo should take note!


    Make only 2-3 levels of fear.

    Bring back poison as a HP damage type as well as a status ailment. So green dragons can get back their poison breath and open up the poison based spells and abilities that do HP damage.

    Keep creatures types but have vermin as an animal subtype and bring back elemental as a creature type.

    Psychic magic YES, psionics NO!

    Add aquatic and verdant sorcerer bloodlines in the core book.

    Dark Archive

    Actual 2-weapon fighting not like starfinder's system.

    Kinesticsit class! (It won't be in core but is my favorite class)

    Make sure spells are not nerfed into oblivion.


    If we are wishing, I want a bit more of a modular nature from the class system, so we don't "need" a magus, or any of the hybrid classes to do what we want, and can actually Multiclass with more flexibility. Rebuilding the class system so Multiclassing (and even Prestige Classes) can be viable outside of dipping a level would be a tremendous boon.

    Remove the great big list of "Knowledge" Skills, I was very happy with how Starfinder handled this, so I hope they are already looking to this.

    And while I mentioned it, Prestige Classes. Don't get rid of them, but make them 3-5 levels, give them special abilities to reward you that are hard to qualify for, but as good or better than just continuing your main class abilities.

    edit: spelling.


    a. constant flow of new, innovative, and thoroughly enjoyable content, like I've had for ten years, plus the 3E stuff Wizards made

    Dark Archive

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    Neo2151 wrote:
    A complete reevaluation of the spell lists.

    Honestly, the spell list needs to be redone to the point where I would suggest throwing away everything except a minimal description of each spell with absolutely NO mechanics, then rebuild the spells from there.


    2nd edition Kingmaker AP.


    Rebuild the magic system from the ground up.

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