Doppleman |
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Hello,
I would like to get some advices on what precautions a party should take before going to a "formal meeting". Ex: Going to talk with nobles, commercial talks, or any other events that would require the party to go without their heavy armor & weapons. We know there's a possibility to be attacked during the meeting.
I believe this would mostly be a task for the rogue and the wizard. Since I am the tank fighter, what is my job in this situation? Should I prepare something before going? I have a couple ideas, but I'd like to know what you guys think.
Also, what should I expect from my party? This is a simulation, it's not actualy happening in my game. I just want to know what are the options here. What should we do if there's no wizard or no rogue in the party. What to do at lower levels. What if we split?
Zhayne |
Hope and pray that your GM is taking the fact that you're completely and utterly hosed into account when designing the potential attackers.
You might be able to smuggle in a small weapon, or perhaps a set of brass knuckles. You might have to resort to an improvised weapon like a table leg. You'll be reliant on unobtrusive magic items, like jewelry, for any defensive measures.
This is one of the things that irks me sometimes about PF ... your ability to defend yourself doesn't really go up as you level up. This is supposed to be represented by hit points, but it seems weird that a 20th level fighter's naked AC is going to be only a couple points different from that of a 1st level dirt farmer.
Kayerloth |
Glamer on your weapon(s) and armor could work. It does run the risk of being detected or seen through with whatever repercussions are involved there.
Called is another enhancement that could be placed on armor or weapons which allows the weapon/armor to be summoned to you. The drawback there is ensuring you remain within the effective range which if I recall is fairly short.
Various extra-dimensional holding devices might similarly be used to smuggle equipment in.
Shrink Item might be employed turning the equipment into a cloth like material again to either smuggle or make it seem harmless.
Any and all magical solutions run the risk of being blocked by barriers and/or antimagic and run the risk of your subterfuge being unmasked.
If one expects this sort of problem with any sort of frequency then investing in some feats to help might be worth considering. Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Improved Disarm (hey can I borrow your nice looking pointy thing). Note that both Unarmed Strike and Disarm can be attempted without any feats they just draw attacks of opportunity if not proficient in these tactics.
And unless staying around to defend someone/something is necessary there's always the run away and live to get revenge option.
SheepishEidolon |
Against foes with limited damage output, consider using combat maneuvers, even without the according feats. Being Str based works well here, full BAB and a good Str modifier make a solid CMB against humanoids. Grapple them to the point of being pinned, bull rush them down the stairs or disarm them (ideally to get their weapon) - there are numerous possibilities.
ohako |
a) any arcane spellcasters in your party should be pretty deadly (for a limited time, anyway) without weapons or armor. not to mention the old, 'you wouldn't deny an old man his cane, would you?' routine.
b) improvised weapons
c) for the party rogue, hidden weapons. Try to hide a few, in case one gets found out.
d) maybe a sword cane, although that's probably not going to fool anybody.
oh, okay, you're going in as the party tank? k...how tanky are you? do you have the Bodyguard feat? Or one of those feats where you can share your shield bonus with someone else? Are you a paladin, or a cavalier with some teamwork feats to hand out?
If you're a dude who hits great with a sword, then you may be out of luck without your gear. But remember, a fighter who gets his sword greased should still have a spiked gauntlet handy, and AC is just a number, after all. You may have to be a tank in the buff, as it were.
Hmm, you know, there's some funky options for like false scabbards and wrist sheaths and such. Maybe check those out?
Spark Monkey |
I really like the cheaper items - still very affordable/useful even at low level.
Potion of Mage Armor, or have the caster place the spell on you before the meeting... other potions for buff spells, or just long acting spells.
Alchemical items such as Anti-Toxen, Anti-plague, Stillgut to boost Saves for an hour (maybe extras in case you need them longer than an hour). Liquid Blade for an instant short sword - or two if you are a two weapon fighter. Smokesticks, smokebombs and so many other things...
Improvised Weapons (hit them with the chair!) can be your friend.
are these the kind of things you are looking for?
or more expensive?
like a Bracelet of Friends (19K, less for one with fewer than 4 charms) - have the fighter not even go into the meeting, they can remain anywhere else (back at the Inn? in the next country? a world away?), armed, armored and with weapons drawn, awaiting the call. Then, if things in the meeting get all sharp and pointy, the Talker just "calls" in the cavalry.
Doppleman |
Nice, nice, nice, those are all very good ideas. I really like Kayerloth mention of the called weapon. I looked at it and it has a range of 100 ft.
I appreciate the amount of feedback this got.
What about some speech solutions to save the party? Combined with the right feats/features, I'm sure there's a way to intimidate/diplomacy/bluff out of the fight. The meeting is still peaceful, but you know there's a high chance that a fight might happen.
What would you do?
Dave Justus |
First thing I would do is clarify the nature of the meeting and the protections the hosts have in place. In theory, if they are inviting you protection of the meeting is there responsibility, and they should be willing to discuss security arrangements. If they are the potential attacker that is less useful of course, but then without some guarantees I don't see why you would attend.
What you can take with you will depend greatly on the rules and societal expectations. It wouldn't be uncommon for weapons, armor and magic to be forbidden in the presence of royalty, for example, although given the powers of magic users enforcing that against innate abilities would be problematic.
One item that can be useful is a liquid blade. Since it is academical, not magical, only a mundane search is going to detect it. Of course, if it is detected, it would likely be taken as proof of ill intent.
Guardianlord |
For mundane options:
-A sling, easy to conceal (its just a belt!) ammo can be anything close to the right size and shape as a sling bullet, and a high STR toon will do decent damage at ok range.
-Silken Ceremonial: +1AC, no Max DEX, No ACP. It looks good (almost formal, hint hint) and is in fact armor. 1AC can be a real difference at lower levels.
-The Total defence action, hurt your ability to fight as well, but defend so much better.
- Aid another: With improvised weapons (or unarmed strike) untrained you draw AOO's, but if you aid another and hit a 10, an adjacent ally can strike with a stacking +2. So pile on to the same foe and let your heavy hitter hit heavily-er.
- Tactics: Flanking, flipping tables for total cover, throwing curtains closed for concealment, charging for +2 to hit, tripping and withdrawing actions.
- Buffs: Bards are king here, surprise round performance to make everyone a little better at surviving. Skald is a close second for group rage at a moments notice.
- Summons: Anyone who can have this ready, should prepare at least one casting, either as a distraction, meat shield, or door stopper while the party prepares/flees.
- Prebuffs: Message, decent range and the rest of the party can at least hear your side of the conversation. Downside is detecting as actively magical. Mage armor, shield, barkskin, stat boosters, even the resistance cantrip for short duration meetings.
- Concealed weapons: Many have a bonus to hide, plus this stacks with clothing that adds a bonus.
- *Secret Containers: Maybe my favorite for mid level characters. Pathfinders pouch or a Concealing pocket, smuggle in undetectable alchemical weapons (Acid, fire, liquid blade), scrolls, potions, wondrous items like fire breath or feather tokens, small weapons, magical rings (beware some have wear activation times of 24hrs). Or escape items, smoke pellets, smokesticks and tindertwigs, caltrops, etc.
keerawa |
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Bribe a servant to smuggle in your weapons and hide them in a specific spot in case of trouble? Have a druid polymorphed into a bird, insect, or other harmless familiar holding your gear in a sack, ready to change back into human form if things go south? Improved Unarmed Strike is an excellent feat investment, as are some combat maneuvers.
Set-up a mutual defense pact with another group in attendance?
Put your best foot forward by buying a Noble's Outfit, and possibly a local cologne or perfume that is in fashion. Also, often every party member can Aid the person with the best social skills. Be prepared to explain to the GM what your character is doing to aid.
Depending on who you have in your party, Glibness, Heroism, Fallback Strategy, Egorian Diplomacy, Burst of Insight, Telempathic Projection, and Honeyed Tongue can increase your chances of talking your way out of trouble.
Omnius |
A chain shirt can be hidden under heavy clothing and there are plenty of ways to conceal a weapon on your person. A fighter may not be as happy with a dagger in their boot as a sword at their side, but it'll do in a pinch.
If there's anyone older in the party, they can bring a staff as their walking stick and pass it off to a beater if it comes time to fight.
A sling can be used as any number of articles of clothing, or simply wrapped around a limb discretely beneath clothing, while squirreling away bullets here and there all over your body.
Sword canes are a martial weapon.
Slim Jim |
Fortuitous polearm in a Glove (or ring) of Storing, and a potion of Enlarge Person in a spring-sheath.
Most opponents at "formal" occasions are other normal-sized humanoids; having a 20' reach and a lot of AoOs really tames down on the amount of inbound melee damage you're likely to receive.
~ ~ ~
Be careful, though; a lot of encounters involving formal settings are more about setting up the PCs to loss face, and tricking them into "overreacting" by going on a murderhobo rampage after a minor provocation may be exactly what the enemy intends, especially if they're a powerful nobel who can then simply order their arrest.
Purplefixer |
Bladed Belt + Shield Cloak, both remarkably cheap.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/c-d/cloak -shield/
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/belt- bladed/
That belt turns into a polearm, axe, sword, rapier... whatever you want as long as it does slashing and/or piercing. And if you actually have cash to blow, you can enchant it, too. It's an amazing backup weapon which is 100% concealable, and drawn with only a move action.
Mark Hoover 330 |
Wizard: 1. Shrink Item to wear some armor as a patch of fabric; 2. toss down armor and have it expand during Surprise; 3. cast Swift Girding for a single Standard Action to put the armor on you. I think there's also a cleric spell that transfers armor you're wearing onto someone nearby; bribe an NPC cleric to stand close to where the negotiations will take place and launch armor on you on a pre-planned signal.
As for talking your way out of things... that will depend on your party. For example a half-elf rogue, human wizard and dwarf fighter built for dungeon exploration probably have only a few skill ranks in the needed skills for these kinds of scenes.
Enter: NPCs. Some obvious things you could do would be buy mundane or magic items to buff your abilities but hirelings could take things to the next level.
If you're meeting with nobles to negotiate, say, trade agreements, there's no reason not to have an entourage. One of these might be an Expert NPC 2 levels lower than the highest level PC (Minimum Expert 1) with Skill Focus: (x Skill needed for negotiations), a 15 or higher Charisma, and a reputation.
Imagine, for example that the party is level 5 and about to enter into a dangerous negotiation with an evil merchant lord. They enter the merchant's home accompanied by Gree, their trusty merchant NPC friend. Gree is a Halfling Expert 3, has 17 Cha, Skill Focus: Diplomacy, Persuasive (+2 to Diplomacy) and has been buffed with the Cantrip Enhanced Diplomacy (+2 Competency). His total Diplomacy check then is +16 to try and negotiate on your behalf. Meanwhile your PCs are flanking him and standing behind him, concealing Light weapons on your person while the wizard has cast Mage Armor on all of you.
Doppleman |
If you're meeting with nobles to negotiate, say, trade agreements, there's no reason not to have an entourage. One of these might be an Expert NPC 2 levels lower than the highest level PC (Minimum Expert 1) with Skill Focus: (x Skill needed for negotiations), a 15 or higher Charisma, and a reputation.
Imagine, for example that the party is level 5 and about to enter into a dangerous negotiation with an evil merchant lord. They enter the merchant's home accompanied by Gree, their trusty merchant NPC friend. Gree is a Halfling Expert 3, has 17 Cha, Skill Focus: Diplomacy, Persuasive (+2 to Diplomacy) and has been buffed with the Cantrip Enhanced Diplomacy (+2 Competency).
I really like that one.
It would make sense to hire a good negotiator if the party doesn't have a dedicated diplomat.