I asked the same question and it took me a while to find it. Literally the only other way to shift attitude happens when the group finds Portimer of Stachys 'not guilty' during the trial. So I made it happen (as above) at a set investment of funds.
Amazing! thanks for finding this!!!
Question: has any GM out there calculated the loot for the entire book 2? (including sale of equipment for defeated enemies) I'm about to do it, but if one of you has done it... ;)
Okay, sorry for enterring in the thread so late, but my party of four is about to start War of the Crown soon, and I have a question. My party's alchemist chose Lotheed as her Noble Scion house, and when she found out Martella was a Lotheed, she asked if she could be Martella's younger sister. Not having book 2 at the time, I thought 'sure, why not?' I've now read through book 2 and realized the total possible can of worms I allowed. I know Bartleby despises Martella, but it states he's quite devoted to the rest of his family.
Suggestions on possible ways to handle the sibling factor?
Make her a Qadiran half-sister like Martella (same mother... daddy's repeated dalliance...) Bartleby will equally racist-hate her.
Sorry, but I just don’t feel that arrangement sounds at all plausible. Martella specifically cites her parentage as the primary reason why she isn’t going herself. I can’t imagine Martella and Eutropia sending a less experienced younger sister who would face all the same difficulties and have fewer skills with which to succeed. And besides, our alchemist is full human rather than half-elf
i was more concerned about roll modifiers and whether Bartleby would insist on his sister living at home rather than Bretoy manor, which would split the party
Martella is full human. She's half Taldan half Qadiran.
Her younger sister would not be as much a threat to Bartleby, especially if she somehow managed to squeeze out the Betony Estate title from some addled brain Senator in Oppara... matter of fact, that might gain his respect, as she figured out of a way to gain a new barony within the Merratt County that will now stay within the family... he might even try to befriend her or exert influence on her out of a new feeling of 'owning two baronies instead of one'... he's sadly unaware that the young sister's purpose is to take his barony from him (he never had it, he was stewarding it) This makes the whole thing even more Game-o-thronesque.
All that, or maybe instead you have to undo what you've allowed, Sir! :)
PS: Funny thing --> if the ending of Book 2 is non-violent, the young sister could even allow Bartleby to save face and steward Betony Estate in her absence... although he officially remains a landless noble, his stewarding of the new, revitalized Betony Estate would allow him to look good, to flaunt the newly renovated estate and village to visiting dignitaries, etc. The sweetest bonus would be that Gul Gusairne officially now works for the young sister - only now the Bartleby's 2nd in command in appearance only - and now reports on the activities of Bartleby to her on a regular basis... swwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwweeeeeeeeeeet!
Full Blooded sibling to Martella could effectively cause some issues, half sibling would probably mean they are Bartleby full sibling, which could be quite advantageous, but also quite dangerous.
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Ok, so my players took Sir Gul alive when he came to question them the final time, he is currently unconscious in the cell in the new Wolf's Whisker, and I'm betting that they'll do the same to Bartleby. (Titus hasn't got a hope though, they looking forward to meeting him again.)
Bartleby's write-up says that if he survives he'll become Eutropua & Martella's prisoner, and that Martella will eventually try to reconcile. Fair enough; but what will most likely happen to Sir Gul? The Book doesn't really expect him to survive. (It all very well saying "he fights to the death", but that doesn't help when the players make sure to do a load of non-lethal damage early in the fight.)
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lOOK at my post above... :P
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In my game the group knocked out Sir Gul and he was put up on trial by Baron Okerra. Since Okerra was on the outs with the party he found him guilty but since he was more on Bartleby's side during the book 2 affair he just banished him from the county.
Later on in book 4 when the party assassinated the Chief Enumerator of the Vault and Chain Pytharreus called in Sir Gul to be the interim Chief Enumerator since he had previous experience with Eutropia's Razors (What the regular populace call the party).
Unfortunately for Gul the group infiltrated the Pillar as guards and templars and managed to get him into an empty room, drop a silence dust and killed him pretty quickly. They were pretty happy to close that 'mistake' of letting him be tried instead of killing him.
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After an unfortunate enforced break, we're back to the game, and my players are about to try to talk Bartleby down. Technically they missed out by a couple of loyalty points, but they've opened up with, "we've met your father's ghost and know that your uncle isn't who he claims to be", so I'm going to allow it.
But...
I'm looking into the verbal dueling rules for the first time, and I can't work out how the hell Bartleby starts with 19 determination points. (Especially as at 6th level the Pcs are realistically only going to have a maximum of 10.) Surely this means that he's going to wipe the floor with them?
After an unfortunate enforced break, we're back to the game, and my players are about to try to talk Bartleby down. Technically they missed out by a couple of loyalty points, but they've opened up with, "we've met your father's ghost and know that your uncle isn't who he claims to be", so I'm going to allow it.
But...
I'm looking into the verbal dueling rules for the first time, and I can't work out how the hell Bartleby starts with 19 determination points. (Especially as at 6th level the Pcs are realistically only going to have a maximum of 10.) Surely this means that he's going to wipe the floor with them?
Haven't looked at those rules yet but I will have to do so for my December game... dotting for interest... :)
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I guess then that it's a boost to counter the multiple opponents.
Worth noting though; his tactics say that he opens with Baiting, Red Herring or Rhetoric. You cannot open with Baiting or Red Herring according to Ultimate Intrigue.
[EDIT]
Actually, looking at his stats; he's got a single Edge from the Circlet, and with his Charisma of 10, his appropriate skills (including class skill bonus) become Diplomacy 6, Intimidate 3, History 2, Nobility 2, Oratory, 6, Sense Motive 7.
Baring freak rolls on my part, he's going to get hosed.
He got hosed...
Any recommendations? Running this on Friday... I was thinking of enforcing the -2 penalty each time they use a tactic that's been already used, but not give that penalty to Bartleby...
Did you have each PC take a go at him and then had him take a turn? or was it like PC1, Count, PC2, Count, PC3, Count... Ultimate Intrigue says you have to impose -2 if you use the same tactic a second time I think. I downloaded someone's spreadsheet to keep track of stuff as I anticipate this to be somewhat of a headache...
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I let the group decide who was taking each turn for the PCs. (So, count, PCs, count, PCs, count... etc.) It generally resulted in one or other of them taking the first couple of rounds, and then the 18 CHA bard coming in to finish him off.
As I read it you only apply the -2 to a skill if it successfully used to finish an exchange, not every time you use it. This is separate to the -2 penalty for countering a tactic with the same tactic.
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Mighty thanks DIU!
The Count's 'weakness' is an intellectual gift (such as an antique or spellbook). Using a weakness grants a PC (and any other characters with whom she shares this information) a +4 bonus on future influence checks. The Count's weakness has a further +1 modifier built in, if I read this correctly, for a total of +5 yes?
I'd like to confirm whether it's +5 or nothing... if the PCs don't bring a gift, can they get the regular +4 in any other way?
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Ooh, this is a fun thread.
I'm running a party (a very large party) through WftC myself. We're currently wrapping up part 1. I've rewritten the Agents of Change system very significantly to make it more interesting/not crazy broken, and since we have a party with strong to very strong system mastery, challenges and encounters are all getting rewritten. Whee, work! I have a Roll20 room with something like 300 handouts in it so far. This AP is kind of nuts.
With respect to the Count and his vices, if you're following the influence rules from Book 1 (Ultimate Intrigue uses slightly different rules for weaknesses) then I'd agree that a PC could get a total bonus of +5. Of course if you find that it makes the DCs too easy, it's not hard to rethink the bonus.
My read is that the Count's weakness isn't expected to be used during the Jubilee (although if the PCs came prepared, they certainly could), but rather it's meant to make befriending him easier during the "long game" of part 2, should the PCs desire.
Just caught a little errata. In Beldam I's write up, he is listed as having been born in 4429 AR, but also coronated in 4077 AR and perished in 4098 AR. I'm going to take a wild guess and assume he's not a time traveler and was actually born in 4029 AR.
Perhaps doctoring the records was yet another one of his legendary pranks.
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Ooh, good catch! I don't think the fix is that simple though. We know that he reigned during the Even-Tongued Conquest (Rebellion? Conflict?) so 4070-4100 is in the right ballpark, but it doesn't look like either of the first two dates match up with other known dates.
According to Taldor, the First Empire, we have:
4082 AR
Grand Prince Cydonus III, who mired his nation in
debt, is poisoned by angry nobles. His successor,
Beldam I, claims the poisoning was carried out by
Qadiran agents.
So I think the first date is wrong just as you thought and "born 4029 AR" is a reasonable fix.
Both the Cheliax and Taldor settings list the Even-Tongued Conquest as starting in 4081 and we know Beldam I acceded to the throne afterward (I mean, he and his buddies needed a reason to off Cydonius III in the first place!) so I think the "Coronated 4077" in WftC 2's backmatter is also wrong. It should probably be "Coronated 4082" instead, from the quote above, since that lines up with the timeline better and the Taldor campaign setting seems like a more reliable source.
We don't have enough information that I've found to say one way or the other on "died 4098 AR." So I agree that one's probably legit.
I'm pretty sure the profiles in the back inside covers of the AP are from the Taldan Senate museum displays, especially given how they present Cydonius III's poisoning. I'm not surprised they're a little off...
So in the Joust, it's specified that each contestant gets paired up, but it also mentions that points are being tallied up over 5 rounds. My concern is that, if each pair only competes against each other, things can get mighty boring.
I also note that, assuming only 1 PC competes, there are 6 contestants and 5 rounds, which would allow for each contestant to have a single round against each other contestant, prior to the final. How did the rest of you play this out; 3 pairs, or round robin?
Unless she does something obvious, it probably wouldn't even occur to him.
Remember that the Lotheeds have had "stewardship" of Merrat for quite some time and behave as if it's their personal property - it's entirely possible that Bartleby doesn't spend much time thinking about how he's not actually the legitimate ruler of the county, so unless something happens to remind him that he's only acting on behalf of - and at the sufferance of - the Stavians, he really won't think anything of it at all.
Perhaps tie it to Loyalty, and when the party gets their first visit from Gul, have the question actually brought up then. It'd be pretty fascinating to see how the party talk their way out of it.
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Sounds like a potentially awkward situation, but as long as the table's all right with it, why not? Supposedly she's not so much opposed as oblivious, after all.
There are a lot of relationships that would be affected by such a thing. That could start with the Voinaris family the Crabbes owe their fealty to--Parthena's not a baron, technically, and would most likely owe fealty to Adella Voinum if you're following what the book has laid out. Check the map on page 66--I don't think the baronies are terrifically well-labeled but you get the idea. Of course, the other obvious relationship is with Sepsina. And, of course, as someone deeply invested in the nobility, Dame Parthena'd want to do things all proper--such as researching the PC's claim to their noble title, should they have one, which could uncover all sorts of things and possibly get the party in trouble.
You could have there be competing suitors, the crazier the better. Does Sir Gul want to move up in the world? Maybe Selli Okerra is trying to convince her dad to get out more and meet someone (so he's not so miserable around the house)? Maybe the remaining human-parts of Baron Telus's brain are trying to rekindle an old romance (and arrange for lunch)--and poor Parthena keeps getting these awkward love letters that talk about how scrumptious she is, how Telus would love to devour her, would love to wrap her in silks, and other totally creepy things she might not catch on to?
And of course there are the various things that Parthena could invite the PC to. The Taldor Trucco Championships come to mind as a potentially quirky sidequest.
Just a few thoughts. Maybe they'll send you off in a good direction or two!
So, I am going to have the grateful people who have returned to Jambis weave spidersilk armor for the group. The idea is they can always have some armor in social settings under their fine clothes.
For the joust I added Westling and Fencing. I had players do rolls for points, skill vs skill. If anyone is interested I can post the table.s
My players discovered the maze after Tea at Moost, and came up with an excuse to stay an extra night when the party failed their way out too many times night 1. Our Bard managed to identify the lovelorn between the visits, even with a +10 modifier to its DC for the limited evidence. (Which probably should have only been +5-- the lovelorn's iconic powers all had clear evidence from the circumstances.) And one of the PCs is taking Dame Crabbe up on the adoption offer: A halfling who has been playing the role of the servant up until now. This will elevate her to nobility officially and let her participate more in Influence.
What I'm currently trying to decide is if Dame Crabbe will throw a party to commemorate the occasion. Generally she seems like she'd be all for an excuse to, but drawing attention to Sepsinia's curse might be a bad idea, both for her sake and possibly for political ramifications if Ophilio's role were to come out.
You might suggest a party at Bentony or I'm Stacheys as a festival event and invite the Crabbes.
Every one could she see was sick. Now she is better. That is worth celebrating. If you need a reason the Bard helped Renew her love of song.
On page 11 the reward the PCs are given for successfully making Dame Crabbe helpful has no price attached, other than the fact that it loses 150gp in value for every failed check against it. The item is a "gilded black marble bust" how much should the intact bust be worth?
On page 11 the reward the PCs are given for successfully making Dame Crabbe helpful has no price attached, other than the fact that it loses 150gp in value for every failed check against it. The item is a "gilded black marble bust" how much should the intact bust be worth?
My players kept it and did not try to sell it because one was/is wooing Sepsimia. I'd value it at 600.
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ME: Within the safe are a variety of birth certificates, death certificates, newspapers, royal announcements, and travel documents dating back over the past 300 years. After studying them for some time, you realize the birth certificates (for men named Panivar Lotheed II-VI) are all forgeries, while the other papers all feature announcements and sketches related to six men bearing the same name and very similar descriptions…
PLAYER: So Panivar I died and all the subsequent ones are fakes. The current Lotheeds aren't true nobles! We can take over their duchy now, since they're illegitimate!
ME: *facepalms in my heart*
ME: Within the safe are a variety of birth certificates, death certificates, newspapers, royal announcements, and travel documents dating back over the past 300 years. After studying them for some time, you realize the birth certificates (for men named Panivar Lotheed II-VI) are all forgeries, while the other papers all feature announcements and sketches related to six men bearing the same name and very similar descriptions…
PLAYER: So Panivar I died and all the subsequent ones are fakes. The current Lotheeds aren't true nobles! We can take over their duchy now, since they're illegitimate!
ME: *facepalms in my heart*
Ah players.
My players have decided that they want to turn the Stachys Pump House into a propaganda mill for Eutropia. Their plan is to bring in a bunch of printing presses into the Pump House and start distributing anti-Bartleby and anti-Pythareus literature. This attempt is ultimately doomed, of course, when Gul Gusairne inevitably discovers it. Thus far the PCs have not made an attempt to be subtle about their plan and unless something about their approach changes it will lead back to them.
What I'm concerned about is what Gul will do when he does find out. Would this be enough for him to attempt to arrest the PCs or should it just call for a visit as per Event 4? I am concerned that they have not done enough in Meratt to warrant the assault on Birdsong, (they only have 12 loyalty points) but I doubt someone like Gul would just let this lie. I am currently thinking that every couple days they should roll a percentile to determine if Gul comes to visit, at which point he will attempt an arrest. This will (hopefully) give them some time to build up loyalty points before their confrontation and won't make them skip most of the book.
I am open to other suggestions for Gul's actions, however.
I wonder if Onara might express concern as an NPC.
Also, they have few loyalty points. The propaganda might not be well received at this time.
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No updates on the Pump House Propaganda, one of the PCs was eaten by a fish so most scheming was put on hold for a couple sessions. However, I definitely wanted to let everyone know how the party delt with the Telus situation.
After learning that Mosle had stayed with his friend and keeping him alive all these years the party concluded that Mosle was Telus' true love. So they created a scheme to draw the Baron out so Mosle could plant a kiss on him. The hunter used his Boots of Spider Climbing to rush to the Baron's location, grapple him, and drop him to the floor, all so that Mosle could barge in and plant the kiss. It was a tough fight, and the hunter nearly died, but eventually they succeeded. The power of gay love won out!
I thought this was a fun solution, anyone else's players have a creative solution for Telus?
I love this. My group killed the Baron and arrested the bandits guarding him and feeding him people.
I love this. My group killed the Baron and arrested the bandits guarding him and feeding him people.
This is what I expected them to do, but the bard is more interested in not fighting anything than actually bringing anyone to justice. So I guess they have a spare baron running around the place now.
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No updates on the Pump House Propaganda, one of the PCs was eaten by a fish so most scheming was put on hold for a couple sessions. However, I definitely wanted to let everyone know how the party delt with the Telus situation.
After learning that Mosle had stayed with his friend and keeping him alive all these years the party concluded that Mosle was Telus' true love. So they created a scheme to draw the Baron out so Mosle could plant a kiss on him. The hunter used his Boots of Spider Climbing to rush to the Baron's location, grapple him, and drop him to the floor, all so that Mosle could barge in and plant the kiss. It was a tough fight, and the hunter nearly died, but eventually they succeeded. The power of gay love won out!
I thought this was a fun solution, anyone else's players have a creative solution for Telus?
It's a funny thing. My players, also, happened across exactly this interpretation of Master Mosle and also went for the True Love's Kiss solution.
I decided to play the Baron as someone who had a fragment of humanity still fighting his curse (kind of like Locutus of Borg in Star Trek). And I decided to play his spidery half as sentient (but weird and deluded).
So it was possible to get the spidery half talking with some fancy footwork and high Diplomacy and Deception checks, and in moments of emotion to force the human half to the surface. The encounter stayed on the razor's edge of violence, but they eventually worked out a way to get Mosle into the room and to give him the chance to give the kiss in a moment of vulnerability where they'd lured out a remnant of the Baron's human side. Curse lifted and gay love triumphant! I was wowed that they pulled it off, it was by far the most forbiddingly difficult route available to them.
Another inventive thing my party did: dealing with Halmash and his pack. I also decided to play Halmash as a sentient being with the ability to negotiate (he had plainly struck a sort of bargain with the thorp of Sotto, so it seemed reasonable).
When they tracked him to his den after an initial encounter with his wolves -- fortunately, it went badly for the wolves -- he had some idea of how potent they were and so decided to "talk" with them. And they actually talked him into a truce with Sotto, reasoning that since he had already revenged himself on their primary wolf hunter, wiping out the entire settlement was beneath him. It was a remarkable feat in itself.