rdknight: I'm unsure why you're so defensive here. thejeff is just saying that in games he's played, it'd take some effort to get the talent to work on a consistent basis. This is something YOU'VE agreed with when you called it "conditional".
And as far as sensual full body massages go, I think I'd have to have a talk about that with fellow PC just as I would with 'dancing'. You don't just oil yourself up and jump on the nearest PC and expect everything to be fine in either cases.
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@thejeff: I wasn't trying to be insulting at all. I was trying to humorously illustrate that the social talent is not particularly restrictive because if you want to use it, you can fluff a character to satisfy the conditions for it in many ways on the one hand. On the the other hand, writing a social talent, feat, etc. that can always be accessed without any roleplaying effort becomes essentially "Just get a pool of moral points and call it a day". Obviously my attempt at humor did not come across, and I am very sorry.
@greystone: I'm not being defensive at all. Yes, it is conditional. Yes it takes some effort to get the bonus daily. In fact my guess is that the talent is written as it is so it CAN'T be accessed every day. No, that is not a bad thing. If you do want to use that particular social talent in campaigns that allow no whiff of sexual references or outside urban/populated areas, yes you can. My vigilante is in an online campaign, and it has not been an issue to interpret CttL as I have. I simply haven't had the experience you mention with GMs that you have so often I guess. I have found them to be very reasonable and willing to work on crafting characters to fit their campaigns well.
I never mentioned or implied a "sensual" massage. A regular one will do just fine. Again, "physically intimate" and "physical pleasure" is a far broader category of things than you are allowing for.
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Vigilantes are an excellent class that just has a slight problem with having so many options it looks intimidating to people just getting into the class. Once you get into the groove of it the vigilante is one of the best classes designed for d20 though.
You may be a little confused. The name of the class you described is Kineticist. Vigilante is something else.
I liked it better when you guys were talking about "dance halls" related stuff now it has gone more into "barnyard" territory.
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.....squirrels......:P
Customer Service Manager
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So my question is this....what can we, as a community, do to help police ourselves ?
What can we do to handle both the toxic people, and the squishys who can't handle criticism/bluntness of any type, so that they can participate in our community....without making Paizo staff solely responsible for handling everyone's behavior ?
- Flag posts that are violating our community guidelines.
- Do not reply to posts that are violations of community guidelines.
- If you feel you must reply to a post that is in violation of our community guidelines (something like ‘I feel your comment/post/word choice is not okay,”), note that your post may be removed as when we remove posts, we typically remove both the post and replies to it. If you are replying to someone else’s post and also adding your own thoughts to a topic, separate those in to two posts so that your civilly worded, on-topic post does not get removed, too.
- When posting, particularly on a topic that is considered a hot-button issue or is one that you are very passionate about, keep the following in mind:
-You are communicating with other people who are gamers and fans of RPGs and typically are here because they enjoy Pathfinder, Starfinder or the PF Adventure Card Game. You hold that connection with everyone else here, regardless of whatever other beliefs or opinions you disagree with them on.
-Consider what your words are actually saying, not what you intend them to mean. Text based mediums for communication often make conveying tone difficult. Sarcasm, snark and hyperbole are not always clear and can easily negatively escalate a conversation.
-If you stumble across a thread or subject that you are not interested in, you do not need to state that you are not interested. If you find it difficult not to add your two cents, you can hide the thread.
- Be wary of getting into arguments that boil down to “I’m right about this subjective thing and that means someone else is wrong.”
- When you do feel something is objectively one way or another, be mindful of how you express this. Insulting, baiting, or bickering with other community members based on your belief that you are objectively right is not okay.
- If you feel there is a problem on the forums that cannot be addressed by flagging or that a flag may be too ambiguous about why it is problematic, please email community@paizo.com with context.
- Educate yourself on effective communication techniques. Remind yourself that like most things in life, communication is a skill and to get better at it, you need practice.
Do not reply to posts that are violations of community guidelines. When posting, particularly on a topic that is considered a hot-button issue or is one that you are very passionate about, keep the following in mind:
-You are communicating with other people who are gamers and fans of RPGs and typically are here because they enjoy Pathfinder, Starfinder or the PF Adventure Card Game. You hold that connection with everyone else here, regardless of whatever other beliefs or opinions you disagree with them on.
-Consider what your words are actually saying, not what you intend them to mean. Text based mediums for communication often make conveying tone difficult. Sarcasm, snark and hyperbole are not always clear and can easily negatively escalate a conversation.
-If you stumble across a thread or subject that you are not interested in, you do not need to state that you are not interested. If you find it difficult not to add your two cents, you can hide the thread.Be wary of getting into arguments that boil down to “I’m right about this subjective thing and that means someone else is wrong.”
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UW: Awesome! Can't wait to see the new shifter. If the class changes too much, I hope I can get an updated PDF so I can maybe print out new pages and stick them into my hardcover. Yay for bookbinding classes?
Vigilante: I really like the "Intrigue Feat" feats. I kinda wish [Intrigue] was a tag for feats. Along with [Skill] for Skill Focus and the +2/+2 feats...but I digress.
I agree about the intrigue/skill thing for feats, I also wish feats that require a race and/or a racial ability would have the [race] type as well.
UW: Awesome! Can't wait to see the new shifter. If the class changes too much, I hope I can get an updated PDF so I can maybe print out new pages and stick them into my hardcover. Yay for bookbinding classes?
Vigilante: I really like the "Intrigue Feat" feats. I kinda wish [Intrigue] was a tag for feats. Along with [Skill] for Skill Focus and the +2/+2 feats...but I digress.
"IF" they change the class (and that's a really big if)...when the PDF is updated you can re-download ;)
Is there any news on the fix for UW?
Is there any news on the fix for UW?
2. We will have more to talk about on the Shifter in the coming weeks once we are all back in the office.
And I imagine it will be a few months after that that we will hear anything but I'm patient just so long as something is being done.
And I imagine it will be a few months after that that we will hear anything but I'm patient just so long as something is being done.
I'm hoping they start rolling out some simple to answer FAQ's, like Elementalist Shifter's Elemental Strike damage types, in the near future and then slowly work up to the harder ones instead of just waiting several months and then dumping a pile all at once.
And I imagine it will be a few months after that that we will hear anything but I'm patient just so long as something is being done.I'm hoping they start rolling out some simple to answer FAQ's, like Elementalist Shifter's Elemental Strike damage types, in the near future and then slowly work up to the harder ones instead of just waiting several months and then dumping a pile all at once.
I didn't take you for the optimist.
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I didn't take you for the optimist.And I imagine it will be a few months after that that we will hear anything but I'm patient just so long as something is being done.I'm hoping they start rolling out some simple to answer FAQ's, like Elementalist Shifter's Elemental Strike damage types, in the near future and then slowly work up to the harder ones instead of just waiting several months and then dumping a pile all at once.
Jason surprised me by saying they're reviewing the shifter so my outlook has risen to cautiously optimistic. IMO, the best way to show people you're 'working on it' [and keep them happy] is to push out those easy fixes that don't really need much of a debate/discussion and are simple to implement. It's a win/win: a gradual rollout gives more time to work on the more difficult items [I'm looking at oozemorph] as there is tangible evidence work is being done to fix the book and people are less likely to complain when that happens. Jason's post seemed to mollify most of the posters that had issues with the book but the effect lessens with every day that passes without any evidence of progress.
They wait too long and the villagers are going to light some torches and storm the castle... ;)
Giving the class a playtest like all the others have had would do wonders to get my faith back in Paizo.
While I would LOVE to have a shifter mark II playtest, I'm nowhere near THAT optimistic... I've barely made it to cautiously optimistic. :P
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Have any of the softcovers released since UW referenced the Shifter? Some of the big patches for classes have come from those kinds of books (e.g. the rapier swashbuckler was terrible before Fencing Grace existed, AWT and AAT largely fix the fighter).
Still, I'm eagerly awaiting someone on the PDT offering a defense of the shifter or at least some insight into what they liked about it, since I still don't really "get" the class in terms of "what's the hook supposed to be here."
Have any of the softcovers released since UW referenced the Shifter? Some of the big patches for classes have come from those kinds of books
I'd guess that all the softcovers released between UW's release and now were written before it had come out. Many of the authors wouldn't have seen it and nobody would have seen the feedback from those who didn't like the class.
It'll take quite a long time for any changes the PDT make now to work their way through the system into print (however that eventuates). I'd guess FAQs and/or a blog would be the most likely 'first response'.
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I think the hook was supposed to be "paladin of druid circles" that were pretty versatile(the fluff of the class backs this up, the mechanics do not) and we got warriors instead.
For me they seem like the 'jocks' of the druid world... Not bright enough to figure out spells and not wise enough to completely figure out druid level shapeshifting: so they ended up with a hodgepodge of druid abilities and the amazing ability to have a full BAB...
I feel like that if Druids wanted some wanted some big muscley folks around who were really into the whole nature thing, they'd be better off welcoming Green Knight Cavaliers, Geomancer Occultists, Terrakineticists, or just select Rangers and Barbarians into their circles.
I feel like that if Druids wanted some wanted some big muscley folks around who were really into the whole nature thing, they'd be better off welcoming Green Knight Cavaliers, Geomancer Occultists, Terrakineticists, or just select Rangers and Barbarians into their circles.
Oh, I don't think the druids WANTED the shifter, they are just the druid dropouts that got a scholarship for the log toss team...
Giving the class a playtest like all the others have had would do wonders to get my faith back in Paizo.
The legendary shifter had one, it looks to solve a lot of problems people had with the original product. I'm really looking forward to it.
Man, I didn't even know UW was coming out, found out about it today, got super hype, went and got the book from my FLGS... and ended up sorely disappointed.
I really hope they give the Shifter an overhaul for the next printing, keeping some of the community feedback in mind, because right now it's strictly worse than Monk in terms of combat, and it's worse than both Hunter and Druid at shifting, which is supposed to be the classes' core concept.
I love shifters, always have, but this one just really let me down.