| Azothath |
by definition you gain levels in ANOTHER class and that means progression in the primary class is delayed. Prestige classes usually let spellcasting continue to accrue but class features do not. So complaining about it is pointless.
The key to multiclassing is to pick abilities/features that will be useful for the life of the character.
| quibblemuch |
Terrible seems overstating it a smidge.
My most effective (and most fun) character had 10 different classes by the time he was done. He had more feats than a human fighter of the equivalent level, higher base saves than a monk (old-style monk, not unchained), he could pick up any wand or staff in the game and use it without a check, he had a shot at using almost any scroll in the game, every skill was a class skill, and there wasn't a type of AC bonus he didn't have. Sure, his BAB was lower than the party's sorcerer, but he was nearly impossible to hit, so it just became a war of attrition against opponents' touch ACs (because of tactical choices on my part). He had a shot at doing nearly anything, and there wasn't a round that went by where I was at a loss for something to contribute to the party.
Yes, if you want to be a 9-level caster, then anything more than a level or two dip into another class will mean you don't get those 9th level spell slots. This does not mean that everything else is terrible. And there are some fantastic 1st level spells that make a caster dip attractive--a monk with mage armor and shield? Yes please. A barbarian with lead blades? Heck yeah. A rogue with a couple of summoner SLAs to add a flank buddy? Why not? I'd get more mileage out of that over a 1-2 year campaign than the handful of sessions I'd have 9th level spells.
YMMV.
| Matthew Downie |
i can't see any real incentive for anyone to multiclass assuming they aren't a pure martial character
Many characters are pure martial. If they multiclass, they stop being pure martials and become something else - an arcane trickster, or a monk with a wand, or an archer with a clerical domain. Given the 'magic beats mundane abilities' nature of Pathfinder, this is often quite fun.
If you think of your character as a caster, it's probably not worth it. (Though there are some prestige classes that don't cost you spell levels.)
If you're a caster class but you like to go into melee, there are often ways to benefit from multiclassing - usually as a dip. For example, a wild-shaping druid could go Barbarian for rage, or Monk for +Wisdom to AC. You can also use this to gain class skills, trapfinding, etc.
| PossibleCabbage |
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Multiclassing is a strong spice and one of the primary design goals of Pathfinder was to encourage people to stick with single classes by eliminating dead levels and providing incentives to stay single classed.
So while there are relatively things like "favored prestige class" and "prestigious spellcaster" that lessen the blow from taking a PrC, I don't think they're going to do anything to encourage people to take levels in a bunch of different classes. There are already effective ways to do this, but they don't fit a broad range of character concepts and require a lot of system mastery, so it's best they just get left alone.
The real question is "what are you looking to gain from taking a second class, and how much is it worth to you."
| Tinalles |
There are ways. I had lots of fun with a character that had 4 classes (Wizard 7, VMC Rogue *, Sleepless Detective 1, Arcane Trickster 10) who wound up with the same sneak attack dice as a full rogue and only one caster level off a full wizard.
Also take a look at the Spheres of Power system (3rd party), in which caster levels stack. It's a whole different magic system, though.
| WatersLethe |
I actually like the way they've done it so far. Creating enough base classes to avoid the necessity of multiclassing to get the features you want, then adding archetypes to customize and flavor further then leaving prestige classes as optional packages for even more character flavor.
In the current paradigm, dips can still be great investments, and I see nothing wrong with that.
| Chess Pwn |
You don't need to be a pure martial (full bab), just a pure beatstick. Beatsticks don't care about scaling if they are meeting their DPR points. If you're a barb 6 or a monk 1 ninja 2 bloodrager 1 cleric 1 fighter 1 it doesn't matter if both are doing 50 DPR and not dying, you're doing your role. Now which is more fun is preference since the multiclass can jump well and use some wands while the barb can do barb things.
The other things I'm curious about it what would a full caster want from multiclassing?
pauljathome
|
Arcane Tricksters definitely work. Early entry Mystic Theurges work. Bards with martial classes can work. Empirical Investigator/ int based caster can work.
Note by "work" I mean functional, pull their weight, contribute to the party, fun to play. NOT optimal
No multiclassing will make a 9 level spell caster more powerful in general. At best, you'll be almost as powerful in general and more powerful at some specific levels.
| Chess Pwn |
Chess Pwn wrote:The other things I'm curious about it what would a full caster want from multiclassing?To be one of those gimmicky crossblooded sorcerer / admixture wizard blasters?
True that one case is a good deal for blaster wizards.
But that doesn't make you gimped at casting. It seems like it's either more than 1 level dip or some strange non-synergistic combo he's wanting to pull off.
| master_marshmallow |
Paizo has a habit of creating classes for the purpose of filling multiclass niches.
You'll find a bunch of archetypes that exist for classes to simply trade one of their class features for one of another class.
You may want to look into 3.5 stuff, as there were a bunch of feats that more or less created these archetypes for you by telling you which class features would stack if you took said feat.
| Baba Ganoush |
You're probably already aware of these, but <shrugs> they may help somoone.
Either the trait Magical Knack or Bifurcated Magic do help a little for a multi classing spellcaster - you're still delayed on getting access to spell levels but at least your CL doesn't suffer for a one or possibly two level dip.
With Bifurcated Magic a spellcaster could for instance dip a level of cleric for:
* medium armor proficiency,
* proficiency with a deity's favored weapon
* channel energy
* a 1st level cleric's spells cast as a 2nd level cleric
* 2 domain abilities
and still keep their CL = to their HD for their main class.
If their main class has fast full/memorized spell advancement then a 1 level dip only delays them down to the same as a spontaneous caster.
pauljathome
|
pauljathome wrote:Arcane Tricksters definitely work.I kind of want to try one of those VMC Rogue plus Accomplished Sneak Attacker single class entry builds for the arcane trickster, it might be better than taking rogue levels. But then I realized I don't like playing Wizards.
I have a Trickster in PFS that has one level of rogue.
Depending on the group, he tends to play as pretty much a sneaky wizard OR a backstabbing sneak attacking rogue with a bit of magic.
He is a LOT of fun to play. Skills out the wazoo (wizard :-)), mobility (he flies on his Mauler familiar), sniping sneak attacks, and spells when necessary.
If you're using the spells to support sneaky roguey behaviour it won't "feel" like a wizard.
| Baba Ganoush |
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Oh, and I'd think the half-elf alternate racial trait Multidisciplined would stack with Bifurcated magic. (Multidisciplined - if have spellcasting abilities from at least two different classes, the effects of spells she casts from all her classes are calculated as though her caster level were 1 level higher, to a maximum of her character level.)
| Heather 540 |
With Multiclassing, it's all about how well you do it. In my current game, I'm playing a 6th level hunter and I plan to start taking a few levels of Unchained Rogue. The Sneak Attack works well with my Pack Flanking and Precise Strike feats, and the GM is letting me retrain the Weapon Finesse I took at level one since the Unchained Rogue gets it as a bonus feat. Yeah, I'll delay my spells by a few levels, but the extra damage and the Rogue Talents are worth it to me.
| Wei Ji the Learner |
It also merits noting that it also depends on what one is seeking from the spell casting side of things in a multi-class combo.
Personal buffs and the like?
A dip for a level or two might not be that bad.
If you're actually trying to do things to other targets with your spells... probably not such a good idea.