As with all optimization, "best" depends on what you want to do. Luck and Travel domains are certainly good at making your cleric be an outstandingly capable individual, but if you want to be a party buffer, or a powerful preacher and face person, maybe other domains would serve you better.
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or a powerful preacher and face person, maybe other domains would serve you better.
Note that if you go this route you'll also want to seriously consider some of the archetypes that give you extra skill points or class abilities such as inspire courage. Domains alone just aren't enough.
The Cleric is an amazingly versatile class and can make a lot of very different characters (although any one character is NOT going to be all that versatile, unfortunately). Its definitely one of the leaders in the "Build a group where EVERYBODY is the same class" game :-)
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The cleric class is powerful, no discussion about that. The problem is that to actually be the best in the party at anything, you really need to specialize. If what you want to do is smash stuff with a greataxe, sure, you can do that, but unless you devote your entire build to it, a poorly optimized barbarian will outshine you. The trick is to know what to give up, and understand well that buffing is generally a poor strategy, because it loses actions and rounds. Most combats last 3 rounds or less. Of those, the first round is the most important. Use it for buffing, unless the spell is amazing (powerful effect on entire party), and you're losing effectiveness.
Yes this is the irony of the cleric.... on first appearances it has something of everything but in actual fact to be effective, you HAVE TO specialise.
Im no expert on playing them but I have dabbled and certainly seen some good ones played. Without exception every time Ive seen someone try to do the 'bit of everything' cleric or the battle cleric they have been pretty poor.
IMO there are only 2 worthwhile cleric builds.... 'survivable caster' or 'summon & buff'.
Pure caster doesnt quite work IMO as the cleric lacks a few tricks to do it properly. However you will 90% of the time have better saves and HP than a D6 caster and an easier time recovering lost HP and conditions.
'Summon and buff' is v. doable for a cleric.... a Herald Caller with Feather domain for animal companion and sacred summons, following up with group buffs is outstanding.
Alternatively, I once saw a cleric of Iomedae with Archon and Heroism domains + Sacred Summons + Augment Summons completely wreck an entire days worth of PFS adventures....the looks on the GMs faces as the guy then topped everything off with Blessing of Fervors was quite funny...
The Cleric is an amazingly versatile class and can make a lot of very different characters (although any one character is NOT going to be all that versatile, unfortunately). Its definitely one of the leaders in the "Build a group where EVERYBODY is the same class" game :-)
It is possible to build a versatile Cleric but it takes some tweaking and sacrifice. My Herald Caller Cleric has fantastic control through variant negative channeling, solid face and knowledge skills, enhanced summoning abilities through his archetype, reasonable Wisdom for offensive casting and a familiar to boot (for more skill points and scouting).
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If you're a martial interested in pure mobility, Travel + Fur is the way to go in a single-level dip.
But you have to like sheep.
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Chaos+Luck makes for a great debuff/buffer for your part. Extra rolls for your allies and take the worst rerolls for enemies works great if you are paired with another person who can take advantage of them
When choosing a domain, you have to look at a couple of things, the powers and the spells.
If I only consider the late game Cleric (17+), the Trickery domain is the best because you get Time Stop.Every single teleport spell you might need for moving around in the world, you can use Miracle instead at 0 cost (Miracle doesn't costs gold if you just replicate a spell).
After that, the Animal domain gets you Shapechange. And Shapechange will grant you access to all the good spells : Giant Form II , Form of The Dragon 3 etc.
The feather subdomain is especially good :Eyes of the Hawk (Ex): You gain a racial bonus on Perception checks equal to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum +1). In addition, if you can act during a surprise round, you receive a +2 racial bonus on your Initiative check.
my top domains:
1. Trickery (just get time stop)
2. Animal/Feather (we get shapechange, an animal companion and perception bonuses)
3. Travel/Trade (we get the useful spells, and a way to escape grapple)
4. Demon subdomain (crazy damage for melee)
Interesting, would these domains picks be ideal for pure caster clerics?
Question, if you took Travel subdomain Trade, would you get everything in Travel except Agile feet and the original level 1, 5, 9 level spells?
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Travel + Fur are ACME rocket-powered roller-skates.
If you get the Void domain as an Elder Mythos Cultist, you become one of the best binders in the game. This is due to:
- A charisma dependency
- void granting the planar binding spells
- and access to the hallow/unhallow spells, which you can add dimensional anchor to.
If you get the Void domain as an Elder Mythos Cultist, you become one of the best binders in the game. This is due to:
- A charisma dependency
- void granting the planar binding spells
- and access to the hallow/unhallow spells, which you can add dimensional anchor to.
What's a binder? Jack of all trades type of thing?
What's a binder? Jack of all trades type of thing?If you get the Void domain as an Elder Mythos Cultist, you become one of the best binders in the game. This is due to:
- A charisma dependency
- void granting the planar binding spells
- and access to the hallow/unhallow spells, which you can add dimensional anchor to.
Planar Binding, the spell to force/negotiate chosen outsiders into long term service.
Trickery is good, but the extra skills are kind of wasted due to Cleric's 2+Int skill points. Unless you're going for some multiclass/PrC combo that yields you more skill points, that is. But copycat is always amazing and the extra spells are spiffy.
Sorry im noob, which extra skill points are you referring to?
Ahh thank you. Ya I have a 10int
Feather and Revelation can make perception checks a breeze, especially due to a wisdom dependency.
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Question, if you took Travel subdomain Trade, would you get everything in Travel except Agile feet and the original level 1, 5, 9 level spells?
Replacement Power: The following granted power replaces the agile feet power of the Travel domain.
Silver-Tongued Haggler (Su): Whenever you make a Bluff, Diplomacy, or Sense Motive check, you can, as a free action, grant yourself a bonus on the roll equal to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum +1). You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
Replacement Domain Spells: 1st—floating disk, 5th—overland flight, 9th—gate.
Yes. It replaces what it says it replaces, and you keep the rest.
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While the domains by themselves are pretty amazing, it bears mention that some of them are quite synergistic, and should be considered for what they offer together.
Some of these have probably been mentioned before, but I think these are some of the neat combos that can be done:
Luck + Animal / Scalykind (Saurian): Bit of Luck requires either teamwork or reach tactics in order to maximise its potential. If you add in a pouncing beast, you've got the teamwork nailed down by yourself.
Glory (Heroism) / Magic (Divine) + Animal / Scalykind / Chivalry Inquisition: As the above, only combining swift-action party buffs rather than standard action buffing. The more, the merrier.
Glory + Void: If you want to be the very best at planar binding, this is how you do it. Touch of Glory lets you add your level to those Cha-checks, and Void gives you access to the planar binding spells. Happy minionmancy.
Travel (Trade) + Chaos (Revelry): The "do-it-all" combination. Touch of Chaos lets you debuff, Silver-Tongued turns you into a great face, and the domain spells are pretty much all amazing.
Sun + Death (Undead): Get a conductive weapon and smack someone with Death's Kiss, before then using Channel Smite to deal xd6+level bonus damage on the swing. Silly, but fun.
While the domains by themselves are pretty amazing, it bears mention that some of them are quite synergistic, and should be considered for what they offer together.
Some of these have probably been mentioned before, but I think these are some of the neat combos that can be done:Luck + Animal / Scalykind (Saurian): Bit of Luck requires either teamwork or reach tactics in order to maximise its potential. If you add in a pouncing beast, you've got the teamwork nailed down by yourself.
Glory (Heroism) / Magic (Divine) + Animal / Scalykind / Chivalry Inquisition: As the above, only combining swift-action party buffs rather than standard action buffing. The more, the merrier.
Glory + Void: If you want to be the very best at planar binding, this is how you do it. Touch of Glory lets you add your level to those Cha-checks, and Void gives you access to the planar binding spells. Happy minionmancy.
Travel (Trade) + Chaos (Revelry): The "do-it-all" combination. Touch of Chaos lets you debuff, Silver-Tongued turns you into a great face, and the domain spells are pretty much all amazing.
Sun + Death (Undead): Get a conductive weapon and smack someone with Death's Kiss, before then using Channel Smite to deal xd6+level bonus damage on the swing. Silly, but fun.
I'm not sure how Planar Binding works. What do u mean by being the very best at planar binding?
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In order to make the creatures you call with the Planar Binding spells actually do something, you need to make a charisma check to make them agree to terms of service. That's where Touch of Glory comes in and makes all the difference:
Touch of Glory (Sp): You can cause your hand to shimmer with divine radiance, allowing you to touch a creature as a standard action and give it a bonus equal to your cleric level on a single Charisma-based skill check or Charisma ability check. This ability lasts for 1 hour or until the creature touched elects to apply the bonus to a roll. You can use this ability to grant the bonus a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
So, essentially you're getting a massive boost to binding creatures, for free.
Ahh thank you. I was thinking of having a 10 Cha, I could go 14 Cha instead of 14 Con but is it worth it? Is this a really good spell? Are there other feats I will need to supplement this spell?
The pilgrim archtype. With the luck and travel domains.
It allows you to use your domains at range on your companions. And depending on your reading, you can give your entire team free rerolls for an entire round at range at one time.
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I'm a big fan of Protection, specifically the Defense Domain.
For domain spells, you pick up Shield and Barkskin, which means you have the capacity of being the very best power turtle you can be without spending money.
It also comes with a built-in Cloak of Resistance, which saves you money.
Shelyn is a goddess that offers it, and the Luck/Fate domains, additionally she has a Glaive as a favored weapon meaning you can make a reach cleric build using Bladed Brush and prioritizing DEX, which synergizes with Combat Reflexes, and reduces MAD.
It's the best cleric for beginners imo.
If you want to go ranged, I would recommend Erastil and taking the feat that swaps WIS with DEX for your to-hit with a bow. It also reduces MAD. Sadly, upon doing research for this post I have learned that Greater Status no longer exists in PFRPG. The feather subdomain gets you an animal companion, and a scaling racial bonus on Perception checks making you better than a rogue.
If you can manage to get the Stars Subdomain, then you get fly, overland flight, and the ability to spontaneously cast your stars domain spells if you prepared them while the stars are still out. As part of the void domain, you also get +2 insight on mind-affecting Will saves.
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I prefer Fate to Luck.
Making the big baddie re-roll that 20 is amazing.
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No one's mentioned the ones I tend to graviatate to.
Love Subdomain forces an opponent to make a will save to attack you each round, because you are so adorable.
Darkness gives you a free feat (Blindfight) and then lots of ways to lay down concealment.
Animal gives you an animal companion, and the subdomains also have some nice situational stuff. (Also the Animal spells
Most people say Travel is the best, is it because of Dimensional Hop? Or would it be best without even that ability?
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Most people say Travel is the best, is it because of Dimensional Hop? Or would it be best without even that ability?It's a combination of things; +10 movement is pretty sweet, and being able to take a 5ft step in difficult terrain isn't too shabby.
Or +20 movement, since it gives you Longstrider. And it gives you other excellent domain spells, like Fly and Teleport.
Dimensional Hop is great too, though. "I teleport myself and my ally 5 feet to get him out of the grapple - I can do that eight more times today. Then, since that didn't use my Standard Action, I cast a spell..."
Surprised nobody mentioned the Self-Realization Subdomain of the Liberation or Strength Domains. The Archives of Nethys pages for the parent domains Liberation and Strength (it doesn't have its own page, so scroll down to the bottom of either one) list the associated deities. It replaces the liberation power of the Liberation domain or the strength surge ability of the Strength domain, but the upside of it is that the 4th level Domain spell replacement is Paragon Surge, even if you are not a Half-Elf. Clerics don't get any bonus feats (except for a few archetypes that grant them at the cost of something else), while Paragon Surge is a 1 minute/level free bonus feat that you can change each day. If you go with the Eldritch Heritage feat chain or VMC Sorcerer with the Shapechanger Bloodline (although this does cost a bunch of feats), you can make it 10 minutes/level and eventually 1 hour per level. Then use it to take whichever Item Creation feat you need temporarily but don't want to invest in permanently, as long as it isn't one that has a prerequisite you don't want to take with a regular feat (you still need to qualify for the feat to be able to get it with Paragon Surge).
Surprised nobody mentioned the Self-Realization Subdomain of the Liberation or Strength Domains. The Archives of Nethys pages for the parent domains Liberation and Strength (it doesn't have its own page, so scroll down to the bottom of either one) list the associated deities. It replaces the liberation power of the Liberation domain or the strength surge ability of the Strength domain, but the upside of it is that the 4th level Domain spell replacement is Paragon Surge, even if you are not a Half-Elf. Clerics don't get any bonus feats (except for a few archetypes that grant them at the cost of something else), while Paragon Surge is a 1 minute/level free bonus feat that you can change each day. If you go with the Eldritch Heritage feat chain or VMC Sorcerer with the Shapechanger Bloodline (although this does cost a bunch of feats), you can make it 10 minutes/level and eventually 1 hour per level. Then use it to take whichever Item Creation feat you need temporarily but don't want to invest in permanently, as long as it isn't one that has a prerequisite you don't want to take with a regular feat (you still need to qualify for the feat to be able to get it with Paragon Surge).
Paragon Surge and so is in the list of spells of the cleric
^It is only on the regular Cleric spell list if you are a Half-Elf.
No offense at all - but I guess you could work with those answeres given here way more easily if you thoroughly read the rules about cleric spells, cleric domains and cleric subdomains. Then there would probably be less confusion as those rules are pretty clear.
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Travel is the most generally applicable of the powerful domains and that probably wins it the title of "most powerful" but I hesitate to recommend it universally. It depends on what the player in question wants to do and/or what they know about the nature of the campaign. Some other domains like Souls, Liberation and Sun are stupidly powerful if their niche comes up. While I generally try to encourage players to avoid considering themselves primary healers, the Healing domain is very strong at what it does as well.
Travel is probably at its strongest when the cleric is wearing heavy armor or non-mithral medium armor (going from 20' to 30' is way more important than going from 30' to 40') or when the party has insufficient mobility support from the arcane classes. If a party Wizard or Sorcerer has Fly & Dimension Door covered, it could end up looking somewhat anemic.
Broadly speaking, I try to find one domain that has good features (and hoepfully good spells) and one domain that has good spells (and hopefully good features).
Here's a list of good domains to look at off the top of my head: (* denotes that the domain assumes some non-trivial investment in Wisdom, + assumes a battle cleric build that can actually hit enemies)
Defense subdomain - most of the Protection domain sucks but having Shield & Barkskin as domain spells is phenomenal
Love subdomain* - the Adoration power is great and you pick up Heroism
Plant domain - more Barkskin. I almost put an * on this one to take better advantage of Entangle, but the domain powers are better for battle clerics. Take a look at the Growth subdomain as well.
Good domain - Touch of Good is a crazy ally buff
Healing domain - cure spells become actually good after you get Empowered heals. Still not good enough to do every round, but it doesn't feel like a waste of an action to do Cure Moderate Wounds anymore.
Luck domain - another crazy ally buff
Travel domain - discussed thoroughly in the rest of the thread
Frenzy subdomain+ - the correctly done version of both the Destruction domain and the Strength domain
Fire domain* - If you don't have an evoker of some sort, Burning Hands and Fireball will help to control swarms. If you do have an evoker-type around, throwing your Fireball at the same location they did can finish off many enemy groups.
Some of the best domains have been pointed out multiple times. They have powers that will be helpful often. I don’t know if it has been addressed yet in this thread, but you should find out if your game requires you to choose a deity. If so, your deity selection will determine which domains you have access to.
You said that you want to play an evil character. I can think of two possible snags there. The first is that you will not be able to spontaneously cast cure spells. I have played an evil cleric for many levels and its fine, but you will need to do a better job of planning out your spells for the day. The other is that evil deities are less likely to have domains like travel, luck, and liberation. If you don’t need to choose a deity then it won’t matter.
A Strength-based melee cleric is much easier than a ranged cleric. If you’re not sure which to do, then default to melee.
I ended up going a caster cleric, my GM told me I had to pick a deity so I ended up selecting Kurgess. I am a ecclesitheurge Cleric my main domain is Luck and my secondary is Good (Archon subdomain). We do have a sorcerer in our group. I choose Luck and Good (Archon) mainly for there special abilities. I didn't feel like I needed to get the Travel domains special abilities, they were too defensive for my liking, I do however still can get access to all there spells due to Kurgess. I like him more than Desna because he is Neutral as opposed to Desnas Chaotic which is slightly more restricted in spell selection.
I like to thank everyone who posted on this thread, it taught me a lot.
Frenzy subdomain+ - the correctly done version of both the Destruction domain and the Strength domain
Is the Frenzy domain 3rd party? Or did you mean Ferocity?
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If a party Wizard or Sorcerer has Fly & Dimension Door covered, it could end up looking somewhat anemic.
I've played "Taxi clerics" quite a few times in PFS so I've experience with a wide range of different groups.
They're certainly sometimes more powerful than other times but I don't think they EVER get down to "anemic". One scenario 3 out of 6 characters had access to dimension door and it was STILL very powerful (sometimes the cleric had to desperately do something and the wizard was the taxi, sometimes the other way around :-))
Surprised nobody mentioned the Self-Realization Subdomain of the Liberation or Strength Domains. The Archives of Nethys pages for the parent domains Liberation and Strength (it doesn't have its own page, so scroll down to the bottom of either one) list the associated deities. It replaces the liberation power of the Liberation domain or the strength surge ability of the Strength domain, but the upside of it is that the 4th level Domain spell replacement is Paragon Surge, even if you are not a Half-Elf. {. . .}
Here's another one that the search engine didn't turn up in this thread: the War Domain gets you a flexible temporary bonus combat feat at 8th level, and it doesn't even have to be the same each time you use it during the same day; the War Domain Spells are pretty good too, although it hurts that levels 2 - 6 of these are already on the regular Cleric list. If you manage to get this and the Self-Realization Domain together, you could use this to get both a Combat Feat that you really want but don't have and its prerequisite that you also don't have. DON'T take the Blood Subdomain, which trades out the 8th level Domain Power, but Duels trades out the decent but not outstanding 1st level power for a variant of Challenge, and replaces 3 of the spells with better ones, including replacing 2 that are on the regular Cleric list with 2 that are not, although on the downside it requires you to spend a trait to get it; the Tactics Subdomain also gives you a good replacement 1st level Domain Power (reroll Initiative for 1 party member several times per day), although the replacement spells are actually a letdown (even more are already on the regular Cleric list).
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I ended up going a caster cleric, my GM told me I had to pick a deity so I ended up selecting Kurgess. I am a ecclesitheurge Cleric my main domain is Luck and my secondary is Good (Archon subdomain). We do have a sorcerer in our group. I choose Luck and Good (Archon) mainly for there special abilities. I didn't feel like I needed to get the Travel domains special abilities, they were too defensive for my liking, I do however still can get access to all there spells due to Kurgess. I like him more than Desna because he is Neutral as opposed to Desnas Chaotic which is slightly more restricted in spell selection.
I like to thank everyone who posted on this thread, it taught me a lot.
Sidenote that Kurgess doesn't offer Archon as a subdomain (NG deities offer Agathion instead). If your GM is fine with it, I don't have any beef with that. I say so mostly so other visitors don't get confused.
Sidenote that Kurgess doesn't offer Archon as a subdomain (NG deities offer Agathion instead). If your GM is fine with it, I don't have any beef with that. I say so mostly so other visitors don't get confused.I ended up going a caster cleric, my GM told me I had to pick a deity so I ended up selecting Kurgess. I am a ecclesitheurge Cleric my main domain is Luck and my secondary is Good (Archon subdomain). We do have a sorcerer in our group. I choose Luck and Good (Archon) mainly for there special abilities. I didn't feel like I needed to get the Travel domains special abilities, they were too defensive for my liking, I do however still can get access to all there spells due to Kurgess. I like him more than Desna because he is Neutral as opposed to Desnas Chaotic which is slightly more restricted in spell selection.
I like to thank everyone who posted on this thread, it taught me a lot.
Ah crap, what do I do now?
I spoke to my GM he said "You can but we will have to come together on what kind of faith do you have that gives you powers, what are the domains and what would be a violation of your church dogma." Any help with this?
Looks like Lawful Good deities don't do Luck, unless one does it that is so obscure as to be missing from the Archives of Nethys Lawful Good deity page.