So we are playing the shattered star campaign and our gm seems to be ramping up the difficulty (ex. it seems like the monsters are being played as characters using everything at their disposal rather than the gm following their combat ‘moral’ like their before combat, during combat, and if gravely injured) and we have had 18 deaths so far, and we are only in the second book. We also have 2 new players who don’t know what's going on with their character or why we seem to die a lot. I asked my friend who did this campaign before but he said it wasn't this hard he also said that he did it in a group of 3 and we’re in a group of 4 so i've asked the gm why it's so different and he said "he already went through the campaign and it's no fun for him if it's the same", so another player and I in the group are thinking of quitting which would just leave the 2 new players. Our gm also keeps telling us to plan but it seems like he uses our plan against us, after our first total party wipe we decided to be more cautious that is when he started accusing us of metagaming so now when we do something successful he accuses us of metagaming or is extremely weary.
It sounds like you're dealing with a classic killer GM, which sucks. The only options you have are to either have a chat with the guy/gal about the problem, or decide to be pointlessly vindictive and actually start metagaming/powergaming to try and wring some fun out a poor situation. You should probably go with the first option in my opinion.
18 deaths, Wow! Could you put in some details, what are some of the worst examples.
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Walk away.
Unless you're having fun.
It does seem like (really really) high number of deaths. I've been planning in my campaign to be able to handle a lot of deaths as I'd like portions of it to be "run away, you literally can't win this" kinds of things (which they could win if they found a way, but I mean encounters that are a few CRs higher in claustrophobic spaces, so that the PCs use the environment to get away or whatnot.)
That said, I'm guessing this is 18 deaths in 20 or less sessions (maybe even 10?), which is pretty high. I think if I crossed even a "someone dies once every 2 sessions" point.. I'd probably be concerned (and that's from the perspective of someone who wants their campaign to be a bit dangerous.)
As above, you pretty much have to confront him (as a group) and get it to change; or find another DM. If it's just you who has an issue with it, you should just change DMs at that point
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...he said "he already went through the campaign and it's no fun for him if it's the same"...so now when we do something successful he accuses us of metagaming...
Walk.
(1) The story is told by the players, not the GM. I'm running my second Crimson Throne now. You would barely be able to tell they're the same AP. Because the players did different things. NOT the GM.
(2) If tactics = metagaming, so you're just supposed to stand there and die, there's really no point in continuing.
So leave, pick up an AP and offer to run it for your friend who walks with you. Once the other campaign collapses, allow everyone who quits the other game to join your game. I don't know enough about the personalities involved and your out-of-game friendships, but I'd even go so far as to invite the ousted GM.
"I love you as a friend, but as a GM we cannot abide you."
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and we have had 18 deaths so far, and we are only in the second book.
This is insane. Your GM has killed the party 4 times over.
Most of the time, when people come to the forums and complain about their GM it's usually a matter of poor communication or different play styles or arguments about rules. But this is on a level all of its own. Long before he got to 18 kills, the GM should have taken a step back and thought about what needs to change.
I don't say this lightly: You have a terrible GM.
It is time to invite the other players to the new PF game you are running. GM'ing is hard, yes, but it isn't that hard. Your players will be grateful, and will help you learn as you go.
If you truly feel like its sucking the fun out the game, for you and you fellow players, ask you Gm nicely and politely to tone it down.
If he refuses, just as politely inform him/her that your not having fun with him running the game, and that you'll be looking for a different GM/Group/combination of the two.
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Have the DM come here and explain, and we can offer advice.
As someone who has played with power gamer GMs, even we didn't have that many deaths in a year long slog thru his custom home brew.
I too enjoy challenging my players or being challenged if I am playing, but I would be inclined to stop resurrecting after the third everyone dies encounter cause GM wants to wipe the party.
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Another option for you would be to switch from Pathfinder to Paranoia. This has several advantages:
1. Your deaths will be capped at six (though they may all happen in the same game session).
2. It doesn't really matter whether or not you are familiar with your character, or the rules, or the game setting, so the newbies will be fine.
3. Dying is a lot more fun than living.
4. Having a TPK every game session is more or less a goal.
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It seems as though the GM is being judged as bad when the OPs post leaves a lot of questions that also suggests bad play on their behalf. The truth may be they are playing extremely poorly rather than them facing a killer GM.
My understanding is that Adventure Paths are written for balanced parties of 4 but do not require tuned, optimal choices in order to succeed and start from level 1 with approximately 3 levels gained per book. So we know the party is low level, but we do not know if it is balanced. If it is a caster heavy party with no martials going nova on their first encounter then they will be torn apart in the subsequent encounters when they have no spells left. We also know that two of the players do not understand the mechanics of their options. An encounter that is intended for four will be deadly if two of the characters are ineffectual. The OP also states that the GM has told them they need to plan. Given the statements about two players not knowing their characters and the GM playing the monsters like character, which I read as to their full ability, it would suggest that the party are blundering into encounters, not thinking tactically and losing.
I also wonder whether the player has read the AP as he knows the adventure is different. Maybe the changing of encounters is as a result. The metagaming accusation may actually be the GM thinks the players are reading the AP and are using information from that to help them.
In short before judging the GM, clarity is needed on:
Is the party balanced?
What races/classes are the two new players playing?
Are the experienced players helping the new players?
Have the players discussed and planned how their characters will work as a team?
Is the party performing reconnaissance and intelligence gathering?
Does the party have resources to help cover a retreat (e.g. alchemist fire, tanglefoot bags or caltrops)?
From the GM side we would need to know:
Has he bumped up the effective CR of the encounters he has changed, either intentionally or by accident (e.g. making terrain more favourable)?
Has he changed encounters in response to the party composition and if so do the new encounters target the party's weaknesses?
The most positive way forward would be for the GM and players to have a timeout session. The GM could help the players with their planning, tactics and character abilities in a general sense that the party can then apply in-game.
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Talk to your GM like an adult.
Usually something like:
"Two players in your group are not having fun, because the difficulty level of this campaign is too high. I understand you want to challenge the group, but I do not feel a narrative link to this campaign because I've had too many PCs die. Could you either tone down the difficulty, or run a different campaign that nobody has played before, so you do not feel a need to ramp up difficulty?"
If ultimately your GM isn't being accommodating to the party and adjusting the game to be fun for everyone (GM included), and refuses to change then walk away. Life is too short for bad games.
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He's a killer GM. Walk.
Exactly this. It isn't going to change or get better. It will eventually make you not like playing at all. Quit now so you can find a good GM and enjoy gaming in the future.
You and the other player could mutiny and try either poaching the other 2 newbs for your own game or just find new players. Also you could simply tell the GM that you all hate the constant death and don't want him to run, offering for you or your friend (or alternating both) run from now on.but usually a killer GM is a douche with control issues and he isn't going to allow you to alter his programming. Probably going to have to run.
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And the worst part of this is that the GM has 2 new players that are interested in learning a new, cool hobby and he is showing them the absolute worst side of the game and seems to be actively driving them away or, even worst, creating 2 new gamers that have no desire to get invested with their characters due to frequent death and may resort to hard core powergaming to compensate. This needs to end for their sake also. If you leave you should attempt to draw them with you.
If he had already run that campaign and it's not fun for him a second time, then why did he choose that campaign to run now? And characters being cautious isn't metagaming, especially since I'm assuming the 18 deaths is known to the characters. When my character died and had to be replaced in my last game, the other characters told her about the others that had died. "Hi, I'm X and I'm looking for a quest." "Nice to meet you, X. You can come with us if you'd like, but be careful. Y and Z have already died on this quest."
If your GM is getting upset every time you do something well, then you need to talk to him about it.
It seems as though the GM is being judged as bad when the OPs post leaves a lot of questions that also suggests bad play on their behalf. The truth may be they are playing extremely poorly rather than them facing a killer GM.
A possibility, yes, but there's a point where the GM should ask himself, "Why is this happening?" and adjust the game as needed.
Assuming the OP is not misleading us, no campaign should have that many deaths that quickly (except, maybe, Rappan Athuk).
It seems as though the GM is being judged as bad when the OPs post leaves a lot of questions that also suggests bad play on their behalf. The truth may be they are playing extremely poorly rather than them facing a killer GM.A possibility, yes, but there's a point where the GM should ask himself, "Why is this happening?" and adjust the game as needed.
Assuming the OP is not misleading us, no campaign should have that many deaths that quickly (except, maybe, Rappan Athuk).
Not disagreeing, but I suspect that there is fault on both sides and probably more on the two 'experienced' players than on the GM. If for instance the party had two wizards, a sorcerer and a rogue. Had no tactical knowledge and were facing a series of CR appropriate encounters without resting between and the GM was playing the creatures using reasonable levels of tactical awareness then I would expect a TPK roughly every 3 encounters. Entirely speculation, but the GM's statements to plan may well be asking the players to think about their actions and instead he is finding that they are being amazingly insightful as if they have read the AP.
What is certain, is that without knowing more it is impossibly to draw an opinion and to offer meaningful advice other than talk to the GM.
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It is i, the voice of goblin knowledge, listen to me.
Talk.to.your.friend.
Yeah, your friend. Is your DM also your friend? then just talk to him as you would do with any other issue you could have with him. If you are accostumed to say "hey dude, please, can you stop beign a DICK? then just say it to him.
Second.
I've plenty of friends, but i just play with a bunch, and there are a few friends i never call to play in my AP's, just because we cant stay in the same table without arguing, some people just dont have the same motivations to play this game.
If we focus in the things you have said, it seems that your friend likes to be, you know, the winner, and for me thats a very bad point of view when you are mastering a game. Actually, i never confront my players, or feel bad when they defeat an enemy with ease, i just feel bad when they are not having fun, or when i'm not having fun.
So, talk to him, and if he says "this is the way i like to DM" and you just dont like it, look for another group and enjoy the game.