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I mean, it requires a very difficult skill check (DC 25), can only be done 1/day (normally) and only heals 1 HP per level/CR. Also it requires a Medkit (which costs 100 credits)and takes a minute. Or you could just get a healing serum mk 1, heal more damage (probably) and not have to make a rediculus heal check.
And Sprayflesh is way worse. Lets you treat deadly wounds again for 440 a pop, also requires a DC 25 heal check, and requires a 10 minute rest AND a resolve point. Or you could just pour a mk 2 healing serum down the guy's gullet for 425, probably heal more, and not worry about a super difficult skill check.
I wouldn't mind so much except there seems fo be a LOT of resources devoted to giving people extra shots at treating deadly wounds. Med labs, advanced medkits, several envoy talents.
I mean, if it healed a number of hitpoints equal to your skill check, or even 1/2 your skill check, that would be fine. Or if it was like the pathfinder skill unlocks, where higher ranks in medicine let you heal more, then I would understand. But why put so much effort into something so bad?
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Not really a rules question but you can also do this in a Medlab as well.
You can also Aid Another if they're trained AND you can take 20 on Treat Deadly Wounds.
This also allows you to conserve serums and magical resources when you're far away from a medical lab and someone is dying or hurt badly.
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The DC is based on the equipment used - the better the gear, the lower the DC. If you beat the DC by 5+, you add the medic's Int bonus to the amount healed. This takes a minute and consumes nothing but time. Treating deadly wounds stacks with long-term care. Since you're not in combat, taking 10 is easy. If you wish, you can take 20 to treat deadly wounds over the course of 20 minutes instead of 1 minute.
The medical bay lets you, at a minimum, treat your three mangled buddies twice/day at DC 20 instead of 25, virtually guaranteeing success at the one-time cost of the medical bay, making it a useful expansion bay. The hint is that there will be higher-grade medical bays in future material.
The sprayflesh ... yeah, I got nothin' for that one. It seems to be a waste of credits. If it worked so that the deadly wounds treatment cured hp alongside the stamina replenishment for spending 1 RP and taking the 10-minute breather, it'd be a lot better - not great, but better.
You may be out of mystic heals and serums of healing. Your magical healing characters may be in a drug- or poison-induced coma. In short, there are a lot of reasons why the typical faster healing of hp methods are not available. Medicine provides one method that everyone can use with one medical kit or advanced medical kit in the group and enough down time.
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Level 1 medics take 20 to treat deadly wounds with a medkit - they'll always succeed at DC 20 and might only have to roll (depending on which character is being the medic) when using the basic medkit under field conditions.
During the early levels treating deadly wounds is rather a let-down, although it can add its dribs and drabs of healed hp.
At 5th level, however, with an investment in one advanced med-kit, you're cooking with some gas. Medicine-focused characters should easily hit the DC 25-30 mark, saving significant credit expenditures on serums of healing.
Once you're hitting DC 30+ by taking 10 - some characters will do so much earlier than others - then you're looking at healing 10+ hp a pop for free, making the cost-per-hp shrink to pocket change.
10th level characters should be healing 15-20 hp per each treatment of deadly wounds. That saves 475 credits at a clip - which adds up really fast. Treat 3 deadly wounds and the advanced medkit has paid for itself. Every treatment afterwards is realized cash profit.
The limit on Treat Deadly Wounds is how many times they can be healed per day...not on attempts. Certain things give you more times per day.
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The limit on Treat Deadly Wounds is how many times they can be healed per day...not on attempts. Certain things give you more times per day.
I think there is some ambiguity about that.
A creature can receive this treatment only once every 24-hour period,
You are treating the creature whether you succeed or fail at the skill check to heal them.
I can get that a little bit, but I'd argue that if you fail the check then you haven't actually treated them...you've only failed at the attempt. It isn't until you're successful that you've actually treated the patient.
Granted, in real life if you fail then the person could die or be hurt worse but the way the Treat Deadly Wounds section is written, the word treatment isn't used until after you *successfully* restore hit points.
Bingo. :)
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First off, the DC for treating deadly wounds is 25, not 20 unless you have an advanced medkit at first level which is, impossible unless you find one. Or have a fully stocked medbay on a starship at level 1.
Secondly, let's take an a average level 6 character (lets say human mechanic). Being treated by a human envoy who has gone whole hog into medicine. Let's assume, say, she's a lashunta with 14 int (+2 from race, +2 from stat increase).
Her bonus is 6 (from skill ranks), +2 (stat), +2 (racial)+3(class skill), +1d6+1 (envoy expertise)=14+1d6 taking 20 nets her a 34+1d6
She can heal 3 times. Once for normal, once by turning her advanced medkit into a makeshift 1 person medlab. Once for her level 6 envoy ability.
The mechanic has 40 HP. 10 from level 1, +(5x6) for levels. An envoy can cure once from her advanced medpack for 6+2 (Int) =8 HP, an additional time for 8 HP, and then one last time for 8. This process takes an hour and 10 minutes. (10 to set up the medlab, an hour to treat three times, 10 minutes to break down) for 24 HP, just slightly over 1/2 his health. I guess fine if you are on your way back from a mission in your ship, not if you are in the field.
Without taking 20 (if it isn't allowed?). Not going to work. DC is 25 (20+5 over), 25, 30 (envoy ability requires increasing the DC by 5 and you loose your expertise die.)
I just wish Medicine-healing was viable.
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It is viable, it's just not fast.
Ugh, although I just read the long-term care rules ... what are they thinking. A DC 30 requiring a day and a medical bay?! *facepalm*
A 6th level character with Medicine as a trained skill, 6 skill ranks and a 12 Int has a +10 bonus. Given the utter lack of 'come back from being dead' spells in Starfinder until the earliest of 10th level, not taking ranks in Medicine seems ... risky.
Using an advanced med-kit, a reasonable expectation well before 6th level, the DC drops from 25 to 20 so they can treat deadly wounds for (HD/CR) taking 10 for a total of 20 and 1 minute. Taking 20 they add their +1 Int bonus, although this takes 20 minutes, so for this character it's not worth the time to take 20 unless they have no alternative.
Now that you've gotten the patient upright and moving you hustle your patient back to the starship's medical bay. Here you can take 20 to exceed the DC 25 (20 +5) for another 7 hp healed (6 +1 Int) for the second treat deadly wounds for that patient for the day.
That's a 6th level character with Medicine as a class skill and a 12 Int. No it's not a lot, but it's 13 hp you didn't spend any resources other than two skill checks and 21 minutes to perform. Bed rest is another 6 hp for 8 hours' sleep (19 hp recovered). If they spend an entire day, the recover 12 hp +13 hp that you've already treated for deadly wounds twice and you get to treat them twice more adding another 14 hp, for a total of 39 hp healed in 25 hours purely by the Medicine skill at 6th level. Not too shabby.
Of the SF CRB classes only Solarians and Technomancers do not get Medicine as a class skill. Solarians get Skill Adept at 1st level, permitting adding Medicine to their class skills list.
Themeless Technomancers could add Medicine as a class skill as their General Knowledge add but otherwise are the only class that would have to add Medicine as a class skill ... were it not for their key ability score being Intelligence, which is probably an 18 come 5th level, equal to having it as a class skill.
The above example of a Medicine-focused doctor is far, far better. They can attempt the DC 30 long-term care treatment via medical bay with some chance of success rolling at a +(14 +1d6) bonus, if either die is reasonably cooperative. Without it they can apply two treatments of deadly wounds for greater effect that the generic 6th level 12 Int example I've provided plus another 2 treatments after 24 hours' rest to fully restore a 40 hp buddy from 0 hp.
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Snip
Ugh, although I just read the long-term care rules ... what are they thinking. A DC 30 requiring a day and a medical bay?! *facepalm*
/snip
I know, I saw that too. Just think about that.
To get treatment at a decent hospital, what level would your doctor have to be?
Let's say 16 int and a class skill, skill focus Medicine NPC (expert-likeNPClass)
So +3 int, +3 skill focus, +3 class skill, +2 from aid another from the nurse is . . . +11
Any doctor working worth his salt and able to take 10 to treat your case would have to be level 9(or lvl 8 if he increased his int at levels 5) to grant you even the bare-bones treatment that would any better than lying at home on your couch.
Are their tools that would aid the doc? Seems silly that the medbay itself doesnt add say a +5. Then the doc would only need to be level 4. That seems reasonable.
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Don't forget the hefty circumstance bonuses an entire hospital would provide to your doctor. Level 3-4 would be plenty.
Edit: Dr. McNinja
Are their tools that would aid the doc? Seems silly that the medbay itself doesnt add say a +5. Then the doc would only need to be level 4. That seems reasonable.
So far, no. Aid Other seems to be it ... and adding too many gets a bit wonky.
Perhaps the next step up is a proper hospital - not "just" a medical bay - that reduces DCs by 10 across the board.
So, I did do a spreadsheet but seem to have lost it, but the medical expert feat isn't that good unfortunately.
It is more efficient in terms of hit points per credit(ridiculously beget than serums actually) , but that's it. It has limited usage, requires a DC, and heals less than serums at the same levels.
A bit disappointing.
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This is part of what I'm hearing, "Oh no, I took a bullet in a lung and it'll take the hospital 3 days to fix me up, unless I use magic."
I wouldn't expect a lot of bonus stacking from what I've seen.
And do remember, there is a lot of downtime while in a ship. Being able to use that time to heal HP can save resources.
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This is part of what I'm hearing, "Oh no, I took a bullet in a lung and it'll take the hospital 3 days to fix me up, unless I use magic."
I wouldn't expect a lot of bonus stacking from what I've seen.
And do remember, there is a lot of downtime while in a ship. Being able to use that time to heal HP can save resources.
I'm just saying it would be nice to have a means of healing other than the shaman.
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Lets take a scenario for a thought experiment.
We have two ships that have roughly the same crew compliment. They both go out on a mission and get beaten up roughly the same... as well as roughly in general.
One of them has a mystic fully built for healing. The other one has a doctor and a medbay fully built for healing.
Both ships come back through the Drift and take the same amount of time to get back to base safely. Say... 6 days.
Which crew is more likely to be in better shape? Does the mystic outclass the doctor even in long term care?
Depends on how one defines "doctor".
Doctor being 'character with Medicine at +10 or higher and an advanced medkit' could be everyone in the group.
Mystic is a class though, with spontaneous spell casting. Comparing spell-based healing to skill-based healing is comparing apples to raisins.
This is part of what I'm hearing, "Oh no, I took a bullet in a lung and it'll take the hospital 3 days to fix me up, unless I use magic."
I wouldn't expect a lot of bonus stacking from what I've seen.
And do remember, there is a lot of downtime while in a ship. Being able to use that time to heal HP can save resources.
Luke Skywalker recovered from ultra-frostbite in under a day after getting to a proper medical facility.
Magic and medicine are both healing techniques and should be able to be compared for advantages and disadvantages.
Are there any advantages to medicine in Starfinder, other than that anybody with the skill ranks to spare can do it?
If you wanted to be a medic without magic, is that something that you could make your niche or is it so easy to accomplish that the whole Firefly crew could have easily had the same medical skills as Simon Tam?
Remove Affliction might not be as reliable as Space Penicillin (or whatever), but in general it sounds like medicine is the far distant second that you turn to if you can't get "real" healing from a magic user.
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Medicine:
Advantages: requires skill ranks and bonus (all characters); can heal most characters from near-death to full hp in 25 hours when treated by a sufficiently skilled character.
Disadvantages: requires some equipment, extremely limited uses/day, cannot be used in-combat.
Spells:
Advantage: large scale of effect for character level; portability; typically usable in-combat.
Disadvantages: extremely limited access point (one class and one feat that may or may not be 'dialed' for magical healing uses), limited uses/day shared with other limited uses/day; 'healing' spells consume limited number of known spells per spell level.
Thank you, Mad Comrade. That is a decent rundown and I appreciate you actually taking the time to set it up like that.
Thank you, Mad Comrade. That is a decent rundown and I appreciate you actually taking the time to set it up like that.
Glad to. It helps me too, since I'm still wrapping my brain around all the differences between what was and Starfinder. :)
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So all things considered, how would you build and equip the most effective non-magic healer/Doctor at first level?
I mean, I guess I'd go with a Damiya Lashunta Envoy? They get a bonus to charisma for their envoy stuff, and a bonus to Int for their medicining stuff. Choose to get a +2 racial to medicine, Go scholar to get either physical or life sciences as a class skill and eat the other skill as cross class so I could get the Medical Expert Feat. Use my Skill expertise to go to Medicine . . .
Then I could eventually get the Surgeon Expertise talent . . . plus I could "heal" stamina with The inspiring boost . . .
Buy some Med Patches so I could treat deadly wounds as a full round action for 50 credits a pop. I mean, I guess that's the way to go? Still kinda bad.