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For Pathfinder RPG veterans out there, what rules from PFRPG are changed or no longer exist in Starfinder? I thought it would be good to have a thread on differences people might easily overlook.
I'll start!
A full action uses all your actions in a round. You cannot do a swift action in addition to it. Also, you can trade out a standard action for anything "lesser" (including a swift action), and the same with a move action. (Source p. 244)
Other things you are finding? Post them here!
Don't you mean page 244, under "Action Types"?
Someone already made a thread like this but I see it's been buried.
Don't you mean page 244, under "Action Types"?
Yes, thanks. I just corrected it.
Someone already made a thread like this but I see it's been buried.
Link?
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Also, If I can recall it correctly (was reading the book before going to bed), there's no 5-foot step.
There is, but it counts as your move action. A 'guarded step' still doesn't provoke an AoO
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Flat-footed is now just a -2 to AC and you can't take reactions.
A 5ft step is a move action called guarded step.
There is no -4 for firing into melee.
Charging now gives a -2 to hit instead of +2. You still take the -2 to AC.
A full action uses all your actions in a round. You cannot do a swift action in addition to it. Also, you can trade out a standard action for anything "lesser" (including a swift action), and the same with a move action. (Source p. 244)
I recognise this from D&D 4e! I hope they avoid 4e's mistake of making lots of move and swift actions so people feel like they MUST do a standard, move and swift every single round.
Flat-footed is now just a -2 to AC and you can't take reactions.
A 5ft step is a move action called guarded step.
There is no -4 for firing into melee.
Charging now gives a -2 to hit instead of +2. You still take the -2 to AC.
Wait, why would you ever charge if that were the case?
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To move double your speed and attack.
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Wait, why would you ever charge if that were the case?Flat-footed is now just a -2 to AC and you can't take reactions.
A 5ft step is a move action called guarded step.
There is no -4 for firing into melee.
Charging now gives a -2 to hit instead of +2. You still take the -2 to AC.
Because your opponent is a double move+ away and you still want to attack in that round, I assume.
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Because your opponent is a double move+ away and you still want to attack in that round, I assume.Wait, why would you ever charge if that were the case?Flat-footed is now just a -2 to AC and you can't take reactions.
A 5ft step is a move action called guarded step.
There is no -4 for firing into melee.
Charging now gives a -2 to hit instead of +2. You still take the -2 to AC.
Yes and blitz soldiers and solarions can charge without the penalty at higher levels. A blitz solder can even make two attacks when charging.
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Because your opponent is a double move+ away and you still want to attack in that round, I assume.Wait, why would you ever charge if that were the case?Flat-footed is now just a -2 to AC and you can't take reactions.
A 5ft step is a move action called guarded step.
There is no -4 for firing into melee.
Charging now gives a -2 to hit instead of +2. You still take the -2 to AC.
In a setting where ranged weaponry is already going to be more prevalent, it seems odd to make melee even *less* appealing as an option though. Ah well.
Wait, why would you ever charge if that were the case?Flat-footed is now just a -2 to AC and you can't take reactions.
A 5ft step is a move action called guarded step.
There is no -4 for firing into melee.
Charging now gives a -2 to hit instead of +2. You still take the -2 to AC.
the double move bit?
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In a setting where ranged weaponry is already going to be more prevalent, it seems odd to make melee even *less* appealing as an option though. Ah well.Because your opponent is a double move+ away and you still want to attack in that round, I assume.Wait, why would you ever charge if that were the case?Flat-footed is now just a -2 to AC and you can't take reactions.
A 5ft step is a move action called guarded step.
There is no -4 for firing into melee.
Charging now gives a -2 to hit instead of +2. You still take the -2 to AC.
Melee does more damage and makes ranged attacks and spellcasting dangerous. It's attractive enough even with a penalty on charging.
Another one:
Reach provides higher threat range, without prohibiting adjacent attacks.
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You can now only keep a character from casting a spell by knocking them unconscious, killing them, or having them stuck inside of an anti-magic field. Nothing else prevents casting.uhm, a regular AoO should knock the spell away right?
They meant if you want to contain a spellcaster long term. In PF you can bind and gag a spellcaster and you can stick them in a prison cell without having to worry about them escaping via magic. In SF you have to either keep them sedated or put them in an anti-magic field if you want to keep them prisoner.
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Anything that makes them lose concentration works. My favorite is a constantly shifting extreme gravity cell.
Flipping through the book, I don't believe Anti-Magic Field is a Starfinder spell, meaning not even that is an option.
Not for PCs -- but sufficiently wealthy NPCs might be able to build a prison with an anti-magic wing for spellcaster prisoners.
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Yeah, which basically means the PC's can't effectively capture a spellcaster. You have to KO them and keep KO'd without killing them, and it's really hard to do that.Flipping through the book, I don't believe Anti-Magic Field is a Starfinder spell, meaning not even that is an option.Not for PCs -- but sufficiently wealthy NPCs might be able to build a prison with an anti-magic wing for spellcaster prisoners.
Not really. Just use a nonlethal weapon and hit them again periodically. Nonlethal damage always knocks you unconscious with no possibility of killing.
Another difference, monsters are much stronger than PCs. You can't win a one on one fight of an equivalent CR like you could in Pathfinder, or even a CR-1.
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This one was a bit surprising: There seem to be no size bonuses or penalties to AC and attack rolls (or Stealth checks, either).
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Huh... two-weapon fighting? Seriously... where is it now?
You can make a full attack with 2 attack rolls, or even 3 rolls with certain class features, but under no circumstance can you make 1 attack per limb in the "good old fashion way". Even the full attack says that you can use the same or a different weapon for both attacks. Where's the point in that?
I was hoping to get Two-Weapon and Multi-Weapon Fighting abilities as a full attack. Right now, the kasathas BARELY benefit from having 4 arms. You'd think they attack with all 4 limbs as a full attack (one roll per wielded weapon), but nope...
Being able to hold two Two-handers (one ranged, one melee) at a time instead of having to spend actions swapping them out is very nice.
There is the Multi-Weapon Fighting feat...but it just reduces the penalties of a Full Attack by one as long as you are using two or more light weapons.
So, no, extra limbs don't get you any extra attacks.
Here's the catch:
You know how to fight with several lighter weapons at once and
how to take advantage of your multiple attacks.
Benefit: When you make a full attack with two or more small
arms or with two or more operative melee weapons (see
page 184), reduce the penalty for making a full attack by 1.
Huh... when can you make "a full attack with two or more small arms"? I haven't seen anything about this, at all. If there aren't iterative attacks anymore, shouldn't the full attack be used for two-weapon/multi-weapon instead? Dude, for a full attack, "these attacks can be made with the same weapon or different weapons..." such 2 swords, 2 pistols or a sword and a pistol. That's... TWF right there, penalties included.
I get that kasathas' four-armed trait "doesn't increase the number of attacks they can make during combat", there isn't something to do so as of now... and it's not like having a race-exclusive feat would break the game either.
Fusillade feat, if you have 4 arms with 4 weapons you can make 4 attacks.
There is the Multi-Weapon Fighting feat...but it just reduces the penalties of a Full Attack by one as long as you are using two or more light weapons.
So, no, extra limbs don't get you any extra attacks.
Here's the catch:
** spoiler omitted **Huh... when can you make "a full attack with two or more small arms"? I haven't seen anything about this, at all. If there aren't iterative attacks anymore, shouldn't the full attack be used for two-weapon/multi-weapon instead? Dude, for a full attack, "these attacks can be made with the same weapon or different weapons..." such 2 swords, 2 pistols or a sword and a pistol. That's... TWF right there, penalties included.
I get that kasathas' four-armed trait "doesn't increase the number of attacks they can make during combat", there isn't something to do so as of now... and it's not like having a race-exclusive feat would break the game either.
Soldiers and Solarians can make up to 3 attacks at higher levels when performing a full attack, while Operatives can make up to 4. These attacks can be made with any combination of weapons, so a kasatha operative with Quad attack could have each of his attacks be with a different weapon.
Fusillade feat, if you have 4 arms with 4 weapons you can make 4 attacks.
As an Automatic cone, not as 4 separate attacks against a single target.
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Huh... two-weapon fighting? Seriously... where is it now?
You can make a full attack with 2 attack rolls, or even 3 rolls with certain class features, but under no circumstance can you make 1 attack per limb in the "good old fashion way". Even the full attack says that you can use the same or a different weapon for both attacks. Where's the point in that?
I was hoping to get Two-Weapon and Multi-Weapon Fighting abilities as a full attack. Right now, the kasathas BARELY benefit from having 4 arms. You'd think they attack with all 4 limbs as a full attack (one roll per wielded weapon), but nope...
I believe that was the point.
I believe that was the point.Huh... two-weapon fighting? Seriously... where is it now?
You can make a full attack with 2 attack rolls, or even 3 rolls with certain class features, but under no circumstance can you make 1 attack per limb in the "good old fashion way". Even the full attack says that you can use the same or a different weapon for both attacks. Where's the point in that?
I was hoping to get Two-Weapon and Multi-Weapon Fighting abilities as a full attack. Right now, the kasathas BARELY benefit from having 4 arms. You'd think they attack with all 4 limbs as a full attack (one roll per wielded weapon), but nope...
Action economy is so important that unless paizo was REALLY careful about it Katashas would become very overpowered.
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I believe that was the point.Huh... two-weapon fighting? Seriously... where is it now?
You can make a full attack with 2 attack rolls, or even 3 rolls with certain class features, but under no circumstance can you make 1 attack per limb in the "good old fashion way". Even the full attack says that you can use the same or a different weapon for both attacks. Where's the point in that?
I was hoping to get Two-Weapon and Multi-Weapon Fighting abilities as a full attack. Right now, the kasathas BARELY benefit from having 4 arms. You'd think they attack with all 4 limbs as a full attack (one roll per wielded weapon), but nope...
Yeah, in podcasts and such that was a design goal - makes it run faster at the table with no iterative attacks. Pathfinder dishes out more damage by increasing # of attacks, Starfinder has weapons that do much more damage.
Ok, then what's the actual point of the kasathas' four arms then?
Any operative can make 4 attacks, any solarian can make 3 attacks, anyone can make 2 attacks, all during a full attack.
Also:
Multi-Weapon Fighting (Combat)
You know how to fight with several lighter weapons at once and how to take advantage of your multiple attacks.
Benefit: When you make a full attack with two or more small arms or with two or more operative melee weapons (see page 184), reduce the penalty for making a full attack by 1.
So, basically, there isn't a moment where that could happen... is that it?
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I believe it's referring to small arms as in pistols, not limbs?
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The point? Mechanically, there isn't much of one. I mean, you can wield a two handed melee weapon and a longarm simultaneously, and a few other things, but it's not a huge advantage.
Of course, it's hardly the only racial trait Kasatha have, so I'm not sure why that's a problem.
The point? Mechanically, there isn't much of one. I mean, you can wield a two handed melee weapon and a longarm simultaneously, and a few other things, but it's not a huge advantage.
Of course, it's hardly the only racial trait Kasatha have, so I'm not sure why that's a problem.
The problem is simple: the full attack action makes it impossible to incorporate TWF in any shape or form and without any reason to. Even some weapons cannot be used in a full attack due to being "unwiedly".
What's the point of having 2 pistols or 2 daggers if you don't get any kind of advantage?
You'd think that a human with one dagger would be screwed big time over another human with 2 daggers or a kasatha with 4 daggers, but nope... maximum 2 attacks for everyone, regardless of how many weapons you have.
Give me off-hand attacks, give me one attack per threatened target, give me SOMETHING!
Iterative attacks are gone, fine by me, it was getting ridiculous, but give me SOME advantage of having one more weapon than my opponent, come on now...
BTW, bfore saying it's OP, maybe think about how guilty your GM might be if you got enough credit to buy 4 lvl.20 weapons...
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You have two advantages for two weapon fighting using the multi weapon fighting feat. One: by having two weapons you can change damage types, and you can also shoot longer without needing to reload.
Two: you're more accurate. You reduce the penalty for full attacking when using the weapon, so you're more like to hit, and you can offset other feats that have an accuracy penalty, such as deadly aim.
Being able to have multiple damage types is the key point for me. Or have weapons with different fusions in each one. Pick and choose what you attack with.
