Advice Needed on PFS Legal Ghoul Bloodline


Advice


My son acquired a boon which will allow him to take the Ghoul Bloodline with his Bloodrager. So he would like to build a natural attacking Bloodrager who has the possibility of paralyzing his victims when he claws them.

2 Questions:

1. Which races can you pick up natural attacks? Bite? (Half Orc can...any others?) How about other attacks...Gore? Tail Swipe? Anything like that possible?

2. How does he calculate the DC to resist his paralyze? Under the Ghoul entry in Bestiary it lists it as DC 13 Fort, but I also saw a place where it states you calculate it as: 10 + Creature Hit Dice + CON modifier. I am guessing we would substitute character level for Creature Hit Dice?

Thanks in advance for the help!


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Isn't the Ghoul Bloodline for Sorcerers, not Bloodragers? Or is there a Bloodrager equivalent?


On the Boon (Fighting Off Corruption-Ghoul) it lists you can change any Bloodrager or Sorcerer bloodlines to ghoul.


Perhaps a Bloodrager version was released relatively recently?

According to the Ghoul Sorcerer Bloodline on page 80 of the Monster Codex (which is indeed listed as PFS legal), under the Ghoulish Claws (Su) ability, "At 5th level, creatures damaged with your claw attack are paralyzed for 1 round, as the Ghoul ability (Fortitude negates)...If you're a Ghoul with this bloodline, instead of gaining this ability, your levels in Sorcerer stack with your racial Hit Dice for determining the DC for your paralysis and disease special abilities."


Krell44 wrote:
On the Boon (Fighting Off Corruption-Ghoul) it lists you can change any Bloodrager or Sorcerer bloodlines to ghoul.

Double check the boon. Unless there's some new variant floating around, I'm pretty sure it's ghoul or undead. There's no ghoul Bloodrager bloodline, so in that instance you can only pick Undead.

The Exchange

As i know Tengu and Kitsune have Natural Bite Attacks.


To Cavernshark:

Completion Benefit: You can cross this completed boon off your Chronicle sheet to change any bloodrager or sorcerer bloodlines you possess to the ghoul bloodline or undead bloodline.

It seems pretty clear to me that you can select either Ghoul or Undead as a Bloodrager OR Sorcerer. I do not see any specific language that states if you are a bloodrager you do not qualify for the ghoul bloodline.


I think the issue you are likely to be running into here is that there is no Ghoul bloodline for Bloodrager. Sorcerer's and Blood ragers Both have an undead bloodline but there is no specific Ghoul bloodline built for a blood rager and as far as I know a Bloodrager has to use the Bloodrager specific bloodlines and can't pick from the sorc bloodlines.


From a rules perspective, even if a Bloodrager could take the Sorcerer bloodline, he would not count his Bloodrager levels as Sorcerer levels for that purpose, so there would be no benefit.

If access to that specific boodline is that important to you, you can always get there with eldritch heritage.

From a GM perspective I can say, using the Ghould bloodline on a Bloodrager designed specifically for its use, it would be very powerful and almost game breaking in certain situations (which usually isn't fun, not even for the players).

If you find any weird ways to make this actually work, you should look into Primalist Bloodrager archetype, because it can give you Rage Powers, that allow access to various natural attacks.


Primalist Bloodrager sadly is not legal for PFS games.

And I thought that the purpose of boons was to open up options that were not available...specifically things like race boons to play a ratfolk for example. By PFS rules you cannot play one unless you obtain a boon. Isn't that similar to what is happening here? Obtain a boon which allows a Bloodrager access to the Ghoul Bloodline?

Please understand, I see your line of reasoning, I am simply making a counter-argument to why I believe it works. Ultimately, if it doesn't work and everyone knows it doesn't work (except me, trying to argue that fact) I will attempt to build a Sorcerer for touch spells and the occasional claw attack.

The Exchange

have to agree it is poorly written or maybe there will be a ghoul bloodrager bloodline in a new product.


Well since the Paralyze Claws are fueled by your Con Score Raging Vitality is a great investment to increase your Con score while raging.

As is C. Smash + Cruel AoMF for a -4 to saves.


I agree that it won't work, there's not a ghoul bloodline for the bloodrager to change into


Krell44 wrote:

Primalist Bloodrager sadly is not legal for PFS games.

And I thought that the purpose of boons was to open up options that were not available...specifically things like race boons to play a ratfolk for example. By PFS rules you cannot play one unless you obtain a boon. Isn't that similar to what is happening here? Obtain a boon which allows a Bloodrager access to the Ghoul Bloodline?

Please understand, I see your line of reasoning, I am simply making a counter-argument to why I believe it works. Ultimately, if it doesn't work and everyone knows it doesn't work (except me, trying to argue that fact) I will attempt to build a Sorcerer for touch spells and the occasional claw attack.

If a Bloodrager Ghoul bloodline is ever published then it would be doable.

Many boons do indeed allow access to thing not normally available, but usually they need to also be PFS legal. Ratfolk, Grippli are legal to play but aren't available to do so without a boon that grants you access.

Some boons even grant you access to things not normally legal. I have one from a chronicle that gives any character I have/make access to the Packrager Barbarian archetype, a few feats, and a weapon known as a Flindbar. These all come from the Gnoll section of the Monster Codex, and while the book is in the Additional Resources, the Gnoll section is not included and is therefore not PFS legal. The boon specifically grants access to these things as though they appeared on the Additional Resources. This means only those things mentioned in the boon are legal for me, not everything in the Gnoll section. So no Bouda Witch for me.

Sometimes a chronicle even lets you get things that are explicitly said to be not PFS legal. I've seen a +1 Unhloy Scythe (Unholy isn't legal) that would have been perfect for my Cleric of Urgathoa...But I played down out of tier and so didn't get that...

Your boon is similar to these last two in that it grants you something normally not legal: The ability to change your Bloodline. Sorcerers and Bloodragers choose their bloodlines at character creation but then they can't be changed at later levels. The only exception to this rule I know of is when multiclassing to another bloodline class that does not have the same bloodline that you already have. For example a Ghoul Sorcerer takes a level of Bloodrager, he has to change his bloodline to Undead because Bloodragers don't have a Ghoul bloodline.

In your case this boon is only really useful if you already have a Sorcerer/Bloodrager with a bloodline. It's useless at character creation as you could select Ghoul/Undead for a Sorcerer or Undead for a Bloodrager as legal options already.

Say you have an 8th level Sorcerer with the Celestial bloodline. You can use the boon to change her bloodline to Ghoul. You lose all your Celestial bloodline abilities and gain Ghoul bloodline abilities as appropriate to your level. If were a Bloodrager instead, you change to the Undead bloodline because there is no Ghoul Bloodline for Bloodragers.

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