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Play vulnerable.
Open your character up to the dungeon master and invite him to exploit its stengths and weaknesses. If your character is completely protected from dungeon master interference then it is likely isolated from the world and the storyline. This is an impediment to immersion.
Except when you should be looking down :-)
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You don't have to know all the rules in the various books. Just concentrate on the character you're playing at the time and learn all the abilities and powers it has. You don't have to read all of the lists of such things, either. Just make sure you know what you need and can do at the level you're at as well as prior levels you've gained.
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Improvisation! This is key to running. The players never do what you think and plan for.
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Try to talk to other players in character whenever possible. When I first started to GM and my players were brand new, there was almost none of this up to and including how they interacted with NPCs. More recently they've been breaking character less and less, and it's really improved the story-telling and immersion aspects of the game, leading to some great and memorable moments beyond just "remember that one fight, you guys?"
As a GM, if your players are moving in this direction, definitely encourage it with positive reinforcement.
Run headlong into adventure.
Most of us in our day to day lives try to avoid adventure. But, in the game, you're guiding a hero on a heroic path, so react to adventure the way a hero would rather than the way you yourself would.
Always carry a dose of poison in case you get caught.
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Always go left in the dungeon, or as left as possible...
that, and always carry some sort of missile weapon, even if it is just a sling! May seem silly, till that first time you are glad you had it, and there will always be one of those times, always...
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^^^^Follow the left hand wall in a maze.
Always rest.
Always search for traps before charging in.
Break up the party whenever possible...
;)
^^^^Follow the left hand wall in a maze.
Always rest.
Always search for traps before charging in.
Break up the party whenever possible...
;)
going left/keeping hand on left wall only works if the maze/dungeon isn't that complex - it's quite possible to create one where this doesn't work
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Always go left in the dungeon, or as left as possible...
This is the advice of a kender. Follow this at your own risk. Go straight or right, it's safer that way.
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Meta-Game
Bring something to share with others to the game (ex. food).
Help clean up after the game.
In-Game
Give your character goals (at least 2); other than kill anything that looks threatening.
Come up with something that makes your character odd. A habit, hobby, style, idea, catch phrase or mannerism.
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Who you calling a Kender Lathiira!? :)
Right and straight are full of traps set by oversized imps..err..tieflings.
(no offense intended all in good fun)
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Who you calling a Kender Lathiira!? :)
Right and straight are full of traps set by oversized imps..err..tieflings.
(no offense intended all in good fun)
Funny, I don't remember being green except after tasting gully dwarf cuisine :p
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Well played m'lady, well played!
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If the GM has obviously put a lot of effort into something, go with it.
Try to avoid ticking off the GM and other players.
Supporting your allies is never a waste of effort.
Pay attention, keep notes if you can.
Ignoring plot hooks is rarely a good plan.
Try to adopt a playstyle appropriate to your table.
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Ok, here are the lessons I learned as I graduated from basic PF to more advanced games:
- Make sure you have a source of vision in dark places.
- Always have a way to deal with flying enemies, AKA always carry a ranged weapon. Even spellcasters should have a light crossbow at low levels.
- In general, carrying backup weapons is great. Try to have a Slashing, Piercing, and Bludgeoning weapon if possible. Also try to have a Cold Iron or Silver weapon (archers can use Cold Iron/Silver ammo so they don't usually have to worry quite so much). Having one of these weapons with reach is nice too. You don't have to keep them completely up to date, but having even masterwork versions of these weapons on hand is good in a pinch.
- Healing: Use wands of cure light wounds instead of vital spells per day when you can. Condition removal is generally more important than health healing. Because anyone can use a wand with Use Magic Device, anyone with that skill can be an hp healer, just have a plan for dealing with conditions.
- Always remember your basic items. Never leave home without Alchemist's Fire for swarms if you lack other AoE. 10 ft poles are a classic for a reason. Pickaxes, shovels, and crowbars are all useful. I enjoy using Bags of Flour to fight invisible enemies, even if there are more practical ways to do it.
- If your GM makes you track weight, well, Handy Haversacks are great. Before that, remember that donkeys exist, as well as hired hands. Not all GMs will allow a squire- type hired hand without leadership, but most will allow pack animals- and will probably be delighted, because pack animals add some texture to a party.
- Connections. This isn't useful with all GMs, but I treat every NPC as a potential resource- wizards and clerics are of particular value, but almost every NPC has the potential to be useful. If you encounter a swarm that's just too strong for your 1 AoE guy + alchemist fire users to handle? Time to contact that wizard you met. NPCs can also help you with knowledge- both general knowledge skills, and regional knowledge. Maybe you can find an NPC that knows something about the upcoming dungeon, so you don't have to go in blind!
- Never forget you can retreat. Now, there's some enemies that are difficult to get away from, but a lot of enemies can be disengaged from, or will give up. Retreating isn't always free, but it's better than a wipe, and if you can gather some NPC help and return better prepared, it might make a difference.
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...
In-Game
Give your character goals (at least 2); other than kill anything that looks threatening.
Come up with something that makes your character odd. A habit, hobby, style, idea, catch phrase or mannerism.
In one game a friend had a 1/2 ogre barbarian, who wanted to be a poet. He was writing and reciting bad poetry. Not often enough to disrupt the game, but often enough to lighten the mood.
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...
Try to adopt a playstyle appropriate to your table.
Can't emphasize this enough folks.
If the group like highly optimized, challenging, deadly combat; don't bring a gimped adept who will hold them back.
If the whole table likes PC's that are just above normal folks, have weaknesses, no corner cases, average joes, etc... Don't bring a super max'ed invulnerable rager death machine.
@ PK Ok, I do all of those things as a long time player almost exactly as you note them...get outa my brain with your telepathy....FOIL I need FOIL...!
In all seriousness, all of PK's points are excellent points, common sense among adventures is not always common after all...bravado and a % of reckless is required for the job, but preparation is key! :)
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Here is my biggest contribution:
Consider the other people at the table.
Examples:
- Don't bring an anti-paladin when the rest of the group wants to be the holy warriors of light.*
- Don't decide that your character has a d-bag personality then constantly tell people you are just RP'ing your character. You decided to play that personality. Also if they RP their characters, they will probably not want to travel or work with your character and will ditch him at the first chance.*
- If someone has built a face/mediator, give them a chance to try talking before you attack, at least sometimes.
- If the GM goes to the effort to build a campaign of clearing duregar dungeons, bring an appropriate character. Don't expect him to change it to give your buccaneer a chance to captain a naval armada.
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@ PK Ok, I do all of those things as a long time player almost exactly as you note them...get outa my brain with your telepathy....FOIL I need FOIL...!
In all seriousness, all of PK's points are excellent points, common sense among adventures is not always common after all...bravado and a % of reckless is required for the job, but preparation is key! :)
Yeah, I specifically mention them because I had to learn every single one of them from experience. It may seem common sense to use a wand of Cure Light Wounds, but in the beginning it isn't obvious! And nothing is more embarrassing than heading into dungeon without a light source.
And sometimes it's easy to get so caught up in how to make the perfect fighting master that you forget how to deal with situations that can't be solved with a simple 1v1 trading of blows.
The single best question to ask yourself is "How do I deal with situations out of my character's comfort zone".
And truth is, no character is prepared for everything. That's why you have a party. But everyone should be able to at least fight flying enemies, swarms, and aquatic enemies at some level, or else your inability will make a fight harder.
Oh, I forgot another biggie. Swimming. Make sure you can swim. The best way to avoid water difficulties is to avoid water, but that isn't always an option. Swimming is something every character should be able to do at a basic level. I've seen a fight turn lethal because only one character in the party could swim, and when that character got attacked underwater by a kelpie (failed a will save, lol), half the party stared blankly, not sure what to do.
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silver pieces are in fact...made of silver, my players have utilized their pocket change a few times when desperate. Coins are not great sling ammo, but they sure can work in a pinch, attack roll penalties not withstanding :)
There is also the now famous if rather ugly, melted silver-piece dagger, and pocket change silver inlaid long sword!
I believe it was PC Reggie Todd, cleric/rogue who quoted "I don't care what it looks like, I care that it's HURITNG THEM" when faced with were-rats and a lack of prefab silver battle accoutrements.
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For Players:
Think outside the box to solve problems.
Whether its an application of a spell in a different manner than you normally employ that spell or utilizing the environment to overcome and adapt to a challenge.
For Dungeon/Game Masters:
If a PC tries to utilize out of the box solutions, do not prevent them from doing so out of hand.
Look up the rule if you do not know it and if you cannot find it, make up a rule. You can always revisit the ruling later if it is something you believe may be employed by the PCs moving forward.
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I am not above bending, breaking, or throwing out a rule once in awhile for the Rule of Cool, even if I'm very familiar with it. My players are ok with this (no rules lawyers in my group) so it helps create a more cinematic game experience.
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I am not above bending, breaking, or throwing out a rule once in awhile for the Rule of Cool, even if I'm very familiar with it. My players are ok with this (no rules lawyers in my group) so it helps create a more cinematic game experience.
Could not agree more!
The PCs are supposed to be heroic. If the rules bog down the game too much I try to streamline them or just ignore them entirely. However, I do so consistently and apply those rules to both PCs and NPCs and only change those rules after PC & DM debate.
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Remember to forgive the GM for a few reasonable mistakes, as their job is a lot harder, more complicated, and more stressful than yours.
Don't blindly minmax with no purpose other than acquiring power, unless that's explicitly the kind of game you're playing.
The rules aren't god.
Be prepared for enough to stuff to never stand around uselessly, but not so much that there isn't a challenge.
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..... Always remember your basic items. Never leave home without Alchemist's Fire for swarms if you lack other AoE. 10 ft poles are a classic for a reason....
Addendum to PK's excellent advice:
A running gag for many characters I've played over the years, much to the frustration of some GMS.Make it an 11 foot pole instead.
Lots of traps have a 10 ft radius area of effect. :)
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For everyone:
Do not let things get personal. Sometimes you'll have a bad run of dice, or you'll make a mistake and do something dumb that will result in bad stuff, or the DM will botch a ruling or something. Take it in stride, remember it's a game, don't get all pissy about it.
If people are trying to keep the game moving, try to limit derailment (e.g. Monty Python or Gamers references) to a minimum. There's a time and a place.
Do not let disrespectful people go unchecked. Deal with potential problems OOC and as early as possible.
If you are new to a class or system, or if you have a LOT of options at your disposal, consider making flash cards for conditions, spells, etc. that way if you want to know what your stats while using your secondary weapon while raging under the effects of enlarge person, you just pull out the card.
For players:
Do not antagonize other players. Period. The characters can antagonize each other if their players are amenable to it, but you should never antagonize each other.
Try to match the tone of the game. Don't play like Yakko, Wakko, and Dot when everyone else is playing like Rand, Perrin, and Aviendha.
Don't be afraid to be awesome.
Be smart, but try to limit overthinking. If it's taking you an hour of play time to walk down a hallway (unless you're playing Rappan Athuk) you should probably pick up the pace.
Do your homework. Try to learn at least the basics of a class before you actually play it. There's no sense playing a Paladin if you forget that you can smite and detect evil.
Keep the DM in the loop on your plans. Trying to put one over on them essentially never works out in your favor. Plus, if it's cool, they might help you out in reaching your goals.
It's hard, but sometimes you have to compromise aspects of your character concept to work in a party. Save everyone a lot of grief and make sure your character will work well with the others.
Never, under any circumstances, be a Kender.
For DMs:
Don't be afraid to make an on the spot ruling. If you don't know the rules for a particular corner case, just go with what seems right. Figure it out later for future reference if necessary, but keep the game moving.
Make things as simple for yourself as possible.
Try to prep what you can before hand.
Don't be afraid to let your players be awesome, even if it isn't strictly by the book.
Read. A lot. An ounce of familiarity with the books can save a pound of grief down the road.
Read the table, adjust tone to match what folks seem to enjoy.
You are not the opposition, you and the players are a team collaborating to tell a story.
Do not let problem players run amok. If someone is being disruptive or disrespectful, it is your job to deal with it. If players tell you that you are disruptive or disrespectful, correct yourself.
Never, under any circumstances, allow a player to be a Kender.
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I'll add more as I think of them.
Try to match the tone of the game. Don't play like Yakko, Wakko, and Dot when everyone else is playing like Rand, Perrin, and Aviendha.
Slight disagreement here. It's perfectly fine to be zany comedic relief in a serious game. That sort of contrast is what makes Pathfinder fun. The trick is knowing how far to take it and when to tone it down a little. My advice is to treat the character as a real character, give them desires and depth, and know when that character would buckle down and actually treat things seriously.
And as always, discuss the character with the GM to try and get a sense of how the character fits into the world.
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Try to match the tone of the game. Don't play like Yakko, Wakko, and Dot when everyone else is playing like Rand, Perrin, and Aviendha.Slight disagreement here. It's perfectly fine to be zany comedic relief in a serious game. That sort of contrast is what makes Pathfinder fun. The trick is knowing how far to take it and when to tone it down a little. My advice is to treat the character as a real character, give them desires and depth, and know when that character would buckle down and actually treat things seriously.
And as always, discuss the character with the GM to try and get a sense of how the character fits into the world.
I mean, obviously there will be table variation, but there is a difference between being comic relief in a serious game and being Daffy Duck. The larger point of that bit is "don't create dissonance"
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If the game is built on escalating tension, the comic relief, de-escalating the tension, damages the timing, and, effectively, the game. If you don't like tension games, don't play in them, but don't mess them up because they aren't to your taste. The comic is not always a relief, nor always welcome. Find this out before you become a disruption.
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Let other players play their characters. Too many times I have heard of players saying " A(n) [Alignment] character wouldn't do that", "Most Dwarves would never...", "Your Cleric worships (Deity), and (Deity) fluff text says they would not support that action, as cleric you probably wouldn't go against (deity)", "You are [Class] this isn't part of your role in the party let the [optimized for that role class] handle this alone".
unless that character is actively hindering the party, let them be. Sometimes the Barbarian has something relevant to say in a diplomacy event, maybe the Wizard wants to conserve spells and feels its a good time to actually USE their knife for something, maybe their Gnome is trying to take life seriously for once. Just because you wouldn't play a character that way, doesn't mean they must.
Or in the case of one friend, they were playing a Changeling witch disguised as a rogue, the PLAYER meta-knowledged based on brief description; their race, class, familiar, and likely spell selections. Which destroyed their story, tensions, and several GM/player story hooks, and Player/player intrigues.
Don't mess with other players stuff. Same player (as a witch who's familiar is basically the entire class), sent their animal companion against his familiar and did damage (almost a fatal crit), and was confused when the player was angry he almost cost him his entire class (the entire party combined did not have enough gold to recover even half the spells that would have been lost).
Or a rogue stealing the Wizards bonded item for a lark, per RAW, that Wizard is crippled (Bonded items removed for any reason are "lost" and must be replaced after 1 week). Same goes for stealing anything vital to a character.
Try not to step on other players toes, ask what their strategies are and where they would like to be on the field. Maybe maxing Initiative and blocking the door with your tower shield sucks for the Ninja that wanted to invisibly enter and gain flanking first. Maybe the Barbarian wanted to bullrush the foe off the cliff, but the Wizard cast black tentacles first, forcing them to stand idly by.
GM's, if a player cannot explain an action, let them roll and YOU describe the actions. Sometimes the character knows the answer that the player may not.
If the game is built on escalating tension, the comic relief, de-escalating the tension, damages the timing, and, effectively, the game. If you don't like tension games, don't play in them, but don't mess them up because they aren't to your taste. The comic is not always a relief, nor always welcome. Find this out before you become a disruption.
EDIT: I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. I feel this could turn into a playstyle argument, and this topic would be an awful place for that.