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Hm. Is it still possible to get in on this beta? Are any game systems other than Starfinder available? (I'm playing around with Shadowrun in HLC right now). I suppose I could check the web site, but I'm here, so... :-)
HLO currently supports only the Starfinder rules.
.You can sign up to join the open beta test. Here's the website for signup:
https://sales.lonewolfdevel.com/Signup/HL-Open-Beta
How is the offline side of it?
I have tried every password I can think of that I have used in the past and there is nothing to let me in, plus their snarky responses to people who are asking for a reset really aren't helpful.
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How is the offline side of it?
I haven't tried using it when not connected to a network. There was some indication that one would be able to use the app as a character sheet without a data connection (with the downside being that updates would not be synced to the server). I haven't tested that, and given the app's presence in a web-page format, I'm not sure it would be at all usable without a connection. Not sure if that is the way the final version will work or if that's just a characteristic of the current version.
I am able to log on but creating a character is not possible right now. It is spinning and spinning.
Got it to work an d print.
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Is worth noting that the Beta is now open to all. I've been playing around with it today, and I must say it's looking good.
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I'm finding it seriously underwhelming. I was trying to build a 3rd level character and I found at least 3 bugs (or quite likely unimplemented features)
I've publicly posted how much I dislike the idea of online only tools so I admit to being quite prejudiced against it. The fact that I spent an hour to NOT be able to create the character I wanted AND the fact that I was going gaming in a place where there is no internet access kind of solidified that prejudice.
I'm gonna have to stick with PCGen. Which has its own issues but at least its free and its being updated at least as quickly as Hero Lab.
It's a Beta, so I'm willing to cut them a little slack. I do like their error catching feature, and the Starfinder Society option.
Hope you reported the bugs to them.
PCGen is good, and I use that as well. As LEGO Batman says, "I like to fight around..."
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I am liking what I am seeing so far.
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Out of beta and available for sale.
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Thanks for the heads up!
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Out of beta and available for sale.
Yes but is it worth paying money for?
How complete / bug free is it?
I ask because its subscription based so unlike an offline single purchase product if its incomplete / buggy you still get charged every month while waiting for them to fix it.
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As of 15JUN2018:
Still unable to print sheets in Firefox
Still unable to import custom avatars for characters
Still locked to one machine, additional access machines=$
Losing any allure the program had (and it was already skating on very thin ice with 'online-only' subscription model) to me.
Taking a look at PCGen again.
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As of 15JUN2018:Still unable to print sheets in Firefox
Still unable to import custom avatars for characters
Still locked to one machine, additional access machines=$Losing any allure the program had (and it was already skating on very thin ice with 'online-only' subscription model) to me.
Taking a look at PCGen again.
I agree that there are some real frustrations with HLO's functionality, but I do want to point out that you are not technically locked to one machine with HLO. You can only log into the system on one machine at a time, but it's a web-based system. I frequently jump between my iPhone and my PC. It gives me a warning that I've exceeded the limit and have to log out of the other machine, but there's no penalty or time delay for shifting between the two. (This is different behavior from Hero Lab Classic, which does require a separate license for each machine you are using the software on.)
HLO currently works fine as a character creator, though there are issues with some browsers, obviously. It has functionality to create PCs, NPCs, and monsters.
However, there are some problems with using adjustments from spells and other effects, there is no ability to import custom portraits, you can't create custom content, as far as I know, output options are limited, and there is no support for GMs in the form of tactical consoles or encounter creators, like those available in Hero Lab Classic.
I would like for things to move faster, but I also know that companies can't always move at the speed I'd like them to. It does, however, raise questions for me about how robust their support for the Pathfinder Playtest is going to be. We were told HLO was going to be up and running to support Starfinder when Paizo released it last year, but it took a few months before that support finally came. If there are similar delays when the Playtest materials are released, we could be almost done with the playtest before HLO is ready.
Little bit of thread necromancy but has anyone got anything else to say about Hero Lab Online now that it's been out for a while? Are people still using it? Is it worth the money?
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Little bit of thread necromancy but has anyone got anything else to say about Hero Lab Online now that it's been out for a while? Are people still using it? Is it worth the money?
No.
Be it the last time my players used it ~6 months ago, it was plagued with connectivity errors, login/passwords wouldnt work, and nothing that would make me want to pay a monthly fee to use.
The group is made of current/ex IT people, so it wasn't 'user error'.
I find it useful for creating and tracking my characters, but I usually print them out and use that instead of using the 'live' version like I do with the classic version of Hero Lab.
I'd like to say the connection issues got better with their recent server changes, but I still randomly get little red floating boxes in the corner telling me that my changes didn't get applied (happened several times while trying to level my character mid-session last Sunday). Whether that's my GM's wifi or their servers, I cannot say, but either way, it doesn't make me feel I can rely on it.
To be fair, the problems I have with Hero Lab Online are pretty much unavoidable problems with any web UI. It relies on an internet connection, and no matter how good your internet connection is, it's going to be less reliable than a thick client or a sheet of paper. They've done a good job on it for what it is. It's just not capable of entirely replacing the thick client.
Maybe someday they'll reconsider and release a thick client, but everyone's migrating to web UIs these days so I'm not getting my hopes up. PCGen's probably the best hope there.
I also gave up on Starfinder because of Herolabs handling of the Character generator and what I expected to happen with the miniatures kickstarter, which actually looks to have turned out far worse then my worst expectations.
With the new Pathfinder 2.0 and its Herolabs program also being online only and the future of PF 1.0 in doubt I'm having a hard time justifying any purchases for either system.
It really bothers me that Paizo allowed my love of there games to end because of bad decisions by 3rd party partners and what looks to be lack of oversight or caring on Paizo's part.
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With the new Pathfinder 2.0 and its Herolabs program also being online only and the future of PF 1.0 in doubt I'm having a hard time justifying any purchases for either system.
It really bothers me that Paizo allowed my love of there games to end because of bad decisions by 3rd party partners and what looks to be lack of oversight or caring on Paizo's part.
Damn... I didn't even think about online Herolab for 2E. Great, another hurdle between me and these new games.
I also gave up on Starfinder because of Herolabs handling of the Character generator and what I expected to happen with the miniatures kickstarter, which actually looks to have turned out far worse then my worst expectations.
With the new Pathfinder 2.0 and its Herolabs program also being online only and the future of PF 1.0 in doubt I'm having a hard time justifying any purchases for either system.
It really bothers me that Paizo allowed my love of there games to end because of bad decisions by 3rd party partners and what looks to be lack of oversight or caring on Paizo's part.
I really feel like this is the wrong mentality to blame Paizo for the failings and business choices of other companies that offer 3rd party products for the game? Like as much as I like Herolab for PF1, I'm not going to let their subscription model stop me from playing PF2 - if PF2 is bad, that's what will stop me from playing it, not some separate entity.
Edit: And you could argue that the products have Paizo's name on them, which is true and I understand that point, but I also see that these products have no bearing on the game itself. They're not required, and they're not really advertised on the Paizo website despite having Paizo's name on it.
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Licenses shouldn't be given to companies that are creating barriers of entry or limiting the use of a game. Doing so limits how that game can be enjoyed. For people like me who play at Cons and game stores, this is a barrier to the enjoyment of the game. That said, I don't know how the final draft of the character sheet for 2E will look. Maybe it'll be super simple and a third party product like Herolab won't be a major part of the play-ability of the product like it is for 1E. But the intense math of Starfinder, from what I've seen, does benefit greatly from a product like this. However that is limited in this level of limited functionality which will impact my consumer choices going forward.
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Edit: And you could argue that the products have Paizo's name on them, which is true and I understand that point, but I also see that these products have no bearing on the game itself. They're not required, and they're not really advertised on the Paizo website despite having Paizo's name on it.
I do require a computer character creator and mini's for my games. With the complexity of most character creation systems nowadays and the added benefit of miniatures inside all of the 3d terrain I have the games aren't the same without them.
I'm not blaming Paizo as much as I am disappointed in the way they allowed the two 3rd party providers who provide two important and necessary parts (to me) of the system to do things exclusively for the benefit of themselves and NOT in my opinion Paizo's customers or backers.
I would like to see Paizo in the future perhaps provide more oversight to ensure the 3rd party providers of this importance are actually doing things that are good for the players and customers.
I think it's strange to think that a company would RESTRICT 3rd parties on how they can sell their products. Think about it: Paizo makes money on making RPGs. Hero Labs is another companys product which also sells Paizo products inside it. Basically they are resellers, saying they can't do something is probably even not in their power but also not in their interests since it's just added value to the game and they make some money when people pay for the SF/PF content in the programs. And the program capabilities are just as diverse as people are willing to make, I doubt Paizo would say no if someone wanted to do a new program which suits their needs better, problem is probably more on the side of software development time (and costs) and the market size which is not huge. Who has the time/money to do hundreds of hours of developing when you can't even know if someone buys the product. Not too many I'd guess.
Miniatures are a bit more complex situation but it's pretty much the same as the situation in Marvel movies was. Marvel sold the license for mutant movies to Fox which means they basically give up the right to make movies for them and gave all the power to the other company which paid for the rights. They could do good movies or s@+&ty movies or just not do them at all, it's their right since they paid for it. I presume it's the same here, ND paid for the license and we can only hope Paizo had some part of the deal say that the license rights come back to them if they can't deliver. Otherwise they just have to wait for the deal to end or try to negotiate something.
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Anyone else think it's a but unfair to bash on LWD for offering a streaming service and announcing they will at some point begin requiring Users to pay for time-cards for this cloud storage?
How about the fact that people keep calling it a "Subscription" when it is patently NOT setup to function that way?
It's also a bit of a weak argument against them considering they aren't even charging for Server Access yet, since you know, the product is still in Early Access. As it stands there are a whole lot of misinformed opinions floating around here and it feels distinctly like people just want something to complain about without even researching the product.
Anyone else think it's a but unfair to bash on LWD for offering a streaming service and announcing they will at some point begin requiring Users to pay for time-cards for this cloud storage?
Its not unfair in the least. LWD made the decision to go to an online-only generator that is reliant on cloud storage and a server cluster that they have to babysit just so people could use their product. We (the players) didnt want it, they wanted to cash in on the recurring revenue.
Their previous Hero Labs (the standalone client) worked fine and I happily gave a lot of money to them for it for Pathfinder. Now I refuse to spend a dime on their "service" especially after seeing it in action. The old HL didnt have their problems.
Saying that its unfair to bash on LWD for delivering a shotty product is like saying its unfair to bash Bethesda for Fallout 76 being bug ridden (only imagine paying monthly/yearly for FO76 vs a one time payment).
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HLO does what it's intended to do, within the limitations of cloud storage. It works the way it's intended to. So, yes, I'd say it's unfair to compare them to Bethesda (which delivered a buggy product) or Ninja Division (which, from what I've seen in the other threads about it, failed to deliver at all for most of their backers). LWD delivered on exactly what they said they'd do. Just because they're not offering the product you want doesn't mean they've done something wrong.
HLO does what it's intended to do, within the limitations of cloud storage. It works the way it's intended to. So, yes, I'd say it's unfair to compare them to Bethesda (which delivered a buggy product) or Ninja Division (which, from what I've seen in the other threads about it, failed to deliver at all for most of their backers). LWD delivered on exactly what they said they'd do. Just because they're not offering the product you want doesn't mean they've done something wrong.
The original posts about Starfinder support from Herolabs made no mention of an Online Only Subscription model.
Of course those posts also mentioned it would be ready around release time, not months and months later.
The first mention of a subscription service ( that I saw anyways) was well after Starfinder was released (and I had sunk a lot of money into it) so I do in fact consider what Hero labs did very similar to what ND did as I would NOT have bought into the system had Hero labs in fact been open and up front and not misled people about there intentions before the game released.
Hopping back to the first page of this thread, LWD demoed HLO and said that's how they'd be rolling out Starfinder at GenCon 2017 (same time Starfinder was released). Here's a post on LWD forums about their plans from a couple weeks after GenCon. It consolidates questions from several other threads that had been going since before GenCon.
Some of those have apparently changed, since Starfinder and PF Playtest are the only things currently supported on HLO. But they were quite clear at the time that they had no plans to support Starfinder in their desktop client. Heck, go back in this very thread and starting after August 2017 on page 1 the discussion turns to people being upset about it being HLO-only.
Regardless of expectations, at this point, their product is what it is. I still find it useful as a character creation tool. In my experience, it hasn't been great in-play if you need to make changes on wi-fi, but I'm fine with doing those between sessions. It has worked as an in-play tool for things like using the dice roller when I forgot my dice.
Personally, I'd prefer a desktop client as well, but that's not what they're selling, so I make do with what I've got. If you really need a desktop tool for Starfinder, go check out PCGen (also mentioned earlier in this thread). Maybe it will be closer to what you need.
The advantage, for me, to the web model is that it runs on my preferred platform, which PCGen does not. So, btw, does the desktop based HL.
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I also feel its entirely fair to complain that we only have the online version. This is the character generator that is licensed by Paizo for use with their product. The player base had been using one model of for the better part of a decade, now the choice is gone going forward for the only two continuous products from Paizo. So they hold the official license and are using it in a way that inhibits people's ability to make full use of it while at Cons or Game Stores where quite a lot of it is used. So yeah... this sucks, now I have to either goof around with PC Gen with all the limitations within it, mess around with paper sheets which suck with a game of Pathfinder/Starfinder levels of complexity or switch to less complex games.
Complaining about it is entirely fair. :) If enough people complain, maybe they'll make it a priority. Though, given how much seems to have dropped off their list for HLO since that initial post, I'd be surprised if they had the resources for it.
Saying that LWD misled people about an offline version of Starfinder support or that they're at all comparable to Ninja Division's apparent stiffing of their customers is what I took issue with. It's not like they held a kickstarter for desktop Starfinder or anything.
I haven't seen anything to suggest that LWD has an exclusive license as _the_ character generator for Paizo. If someone else thinks there's enough of a market for one, they could theoretically negotiate a license agreement with Paizo to use their IP and support their products, or create one that just uses OGL content. As a bored programmer with too much time on my hands, the thought has occurred to me more than once, but whenever I start to scope the effort involved, I suddenly have better things to do.
The advantage, for me, to the web model is that it runs on my preferred platform, which PCGen does not. So, btw, does the desktop based HL.
Java runs on all major OS's, what platform that you are running that PCGen can't run on?
I haven't seen anything to suggest that LWD has an exclusive license as _the_ character generator for Paizo. If someone else thinks there's enough of a market for one, they could theoretically negotiate a license agreement with Paizo to use their IP and support their products, or create one that just uses OGL content. As a bored programmer with too much time on my hands, the thought has occurred to me more than once, but whenever I start to scope the effort involved, I suddenly have better things to do.
Both Rob of LWD and Liz have said the license with Paizo isn't exclusive.
HLO does what it's intended to do, within the limitations of cloud storage. It works the way it's intended to. So, yes, I'd say it's unfair to compare them to Bethesda (which delivered a buggy product) or Ninja Division (which, from what I've seen in the other threads about it, failed to deliver at all for most of their backers).
If connection errors, login errors, and continuous red-box errors about not being able to contact the server (on 3 diff accounts/laptops with different WAP depending on who's house we're at) is 'intended to do' then thats a big wtf from me. :)
The advantage, for me, to the web model is that it runs on my preferred platform, which PCGen does not. So, btw, does the desktop based HL.Java runs on all major OS's, what platform that you are running that PCGen can't run on?
Perhaps I'm mis-remembering, but I seem to remember PCGen being Windows only last time I checked. I guess I should take another look.
If connection errors, login errors, and continuous red-box errors about not being able to contact the server (on 3 diff accounts/laptops with different WAP depending on who's house we're at) is 'intended to do' then thats a big wtf from me. :)
It does that for me on wi-fi, but rarely does when I'm on my desktop machine with an Ethernet connection, so I chalked it up to either bad wi-fi, or my tablet being more likely to do things like shut off the antenna to save power. Neither of those are really LWD's fault.
My former employer just migrated to a web UI for the product I worked on, and they had similar issues, so maybe I'm just more forgiving of it than I should be. I appreciate it when it works, and I work around its flaws by printing stuff out.
Again, I'd be thrilled if they released a non-web version. I dislike web UIs in general. But in this case, it's good enough for my purposes. I find PCGen's workflow difficult to work with, and HLO is easier than doing it on paper.
Licensing Manager
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I haven't seen anything to suggest that LWD has an exclusive license as _the_ character generator for Paizo. If someone else thinks there's enough of a market for one, they could theoretically negotiate a license agreement with Paizo to use their IP and support their products, or create one that just uses OGL content. As a bored programmer with too much time on my hands, the thought has occurred to me more than once, but whenever I start to scope the effort involved, I suddenly have better things to do.
Correct on all fronts! With very few, very rare exceptions, Paizo does not do exclusive licenses and LWD's license is not exclusive.
To everyone in general, Paizo's licensees are responsible for their own products, which includes determining the best course of action for their market. We don't dictate how they should make their products. That's why we have licensees - if we knew how to make and market a computer character generator, we'd do it! But we don't, and LWD is really good at it, so we did a license with them. And they've been very successful with that license.
If you have a product ready to go, or at the very least have detailed business and marketing plans for a product, I'd love to hear about it. That's no guarantee that you'll get a license, but it's the first step in the process.
FWIW I use Herolab Online in the Starfinder campaign that I play in. I have wifi problems at the GM's house some of the time, but for the most part it works really well for me.
So I got a specific question about Herolab Online 'Starfinder', I've perused the Lonewolf threads and haven't found much. I'd like to echo my dissatisfaction with the Online version as opposed to the desktop version that all my Patfhinder characters are on.
I find the system clunky and not intuitive (the Online version). It's extremely difficult to edit certain items ...which brings me to my question.
How do you actually apply a firewall to a module on your computer (equipment section tech)? Also I can, tell you from experience it wasn't easy finding out how to purchase/make a spell chip.
Guess I'd like to finish this post by asking people's opinions (good or bad) Is there a reason I should renew my subscription (given the limitations of this often clunky software?) (seriously if you have a good reason or two for me to wait it out and see if it improves I'm happy to wait ..the price is reasonable and the user interface graphics are superb but it seems to me this is a style of substance choice. Where in there Flagship product is very robust in it's substance and has a ton of community add-ons that make it even more friendly..[I have both Pathfinder and the 3.5 SRD versions of Herolab and am very happy with both..)
Anyway if anyone knows how to apply a firewall to a computer or computer module I'd sure like to know...the only option I get is 'move' and it only gives me hero as an option.
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Anyway if anyone knows how to apply a firewall to a computer or computer module I'd sure like to know...the only option I get is 'move' and it only gives me hero as an option.
Sounds like a BUG to me, reach out to their support email address and let them know about the issue. Generally speaking they'll gladly take BUG reports, questions or feedback so if the UI is problematic or difficult to use in places you should let them know.
How do you actually apply a firewall to a module on your computer (equipment section tech)?
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Anyway if anyone knows how to apply a firewall to a computer or computer module I'd sure like to know...the only option I get is 'move' and it only gives me hero as an option.
Kind of off-topic for the thread, but after a little poking around:
-Go to your Gear list, click on your Computer, scroll down to Computer Mods and click the plus sign. It will give you a list of mods you can apply.-Purchase something under the 'Modules' list (say, Secure Data).
-Purchase a Firewall.
-When you click on the firewall, it will have a 'Configure' section that says 'Protected Module' and you can select the 'Secure Data' in the dropdown.
Before I bought a module, it was as you described with 'Move' as the only option, so it must need something to protect before you can apply it.
My two cents:
I bought and am maintaining a Starfinder license for HLO. I also bought a lot of content for it. I don't regret buying it per se, I have used it extensively (for GM preparation, never for live play, I don't need that), but I have to admit I am not happy with it anymore.
My problem with it mainly has to do with the very high price compared to what similar (but for other games) softwares do. As well as for the always online annoyance. Take Pathbuilder 2e for example, it's just amazing and better on almost any front. The almost part is important though, because as far as I know there is no other sophisticated tool for Starfinder that lets you easily BUILD CREATURES and NPCs. That part is essentially the only reason why I am currently still using HLO (sporadically).
The moment someone comes out with a software that has a one time purchase price (i.e. 15, 20, even 30 dollars) and lets me build characters AND npcs AND starships, offline, using the FREE content from the amazing Archive of Nethys website, I will buy the living akata out of it. It could then have other tools as paid add-ons features if that helps maintaing the software.
P.S.: already there are a lot of very good free online tools that do this kind of things but each is separate and does only one bit. Though they are all really good as far as I could see.