Got TPK'd. Now what?

[Rub-Eta]

Leitner wrote:

As for our choice to go out in the fog, as I mentioned before hand we had taken a short tunnel at one point. On that occasion our GM specifically said "It seems like you should be safe if you stay on the path"

... Well here's your problem. He really shouldn't say "it's fine" when he has planned a TPK.

[Onyx Tanuki]

Is it possible he was using two or even three mist monsters against you at once? Also, has he shown any resistance or reluctance to the idea of GMing? It's possible he intentionally sabotaged his own turn as a GM so it'd be over as quickly as possible and he wouldn't have to do it again, if that's the case.

[Leitner]

Onyx Tanuki wrote:

Is it possible he was using two or even three mist monsters against you at once? Also, has he shown any resistance or reluctance to the idea of GMing? It's possible he intentionally sabotaged his own turn as a GM so it'd be over as quickly as possible and he wouldn't have to do it again, if that's the case.

I explicitly asked if it was two at one point when it seemed like we were getting grappled in multiple spots on the courtyard. He said it was only one. Although near as we can tell the mist itself was also tripping us. Generally whoever was closest to escaping would get tripped on a separate initiative from the boss itself.

As to your second question... kind of. He has been somewhat pushing for me to take back over as soon as book 1 was finished(although typically GM rotation is two books in our group). The possibility has crossed my mind, although, he is a nice guy and I'd say some rules misunderstanding are more likely.

[Fooma]

Leitner wrote:

I explicitly asked if it was two at one point when it seemed like we were getting grappled in multiple spots on the courtyard. He said it was only one. Although near as we can tell the mist itself was also tripping us. Generally whoever was closest to escaping would get tripped on a separate initiative from the boss itself.

It could have been his understanding that moving more than half speed while blinded prompts an acrobatics check or fall prone, and was just playing around that. There's always some liberty with the rules the GM uses against the players to set a certain tone for an encounter, but it does seem some rules mastery issues may have stopped him from understanding how much +CR he was adding to the fight. If the fog wasn't obscuring mist, and maybe only obscuring the top 30', there would have been a much better shot at handling this encounter and surviving with the appropriate terror involved. You can always ask for a do-over.

[ptrst]

Fooma wrote:

It could have been his understanding that moving more than half speed while blinded prompts an acrobatics check or fall prone, and was just playing around that.

It was usually even characters who weren't in the fog at all (who managed to find the path, or before they left it) being tripped. He said the mist reached a tendril out at us and tripped us, and it was on the monster's initiative, not ours.

I do think that if he had run it by the book, we could have won (though someone had a good chance of dying, admittedly). I'm not sure whether it was a rules mastery situation or just him deciding he doesn't want to GM anymore (though he did suggest we re-roll characters and pick back up next time, so idk) but from what I'm reading here it does look like he ramped up the difficulty far above what it should have been. (Honestly, it seems like he picked up on "creepy monster comes out of the disorienting mist and scoops you up and it's all very spooky" and just took it so far that it killed us all.)

[Jurassic Pratt]

Having read the entire thread, sounds like either intentional sabotage or gross negligence in fully reading the first book of the AP combined with poor understanding of mechanics.

Based on Leitner's last comment I'm leaning towards the former...

Sidenote: On my original reply I didn't even consider the Bhole because I'd forgotten it existed due to it being an obvious non-encounter and just a behind the scenes set piece.

[Feral]

I'm in the 'find another GM' camp. His style of GMing works fine in a one-off Mythos game but Pathfinder isn't that style of game.

[Selvaxri]

Give the GM a chance, new GM's running an AP will take time to learn the mechanics of both standard creatures and creatures within the GM.

I'm in the "It was all a dream" camp- as it could lead to some interesting encounters and exposure to mechanics. don't just throw in the towel, not until the second book.

Your GM has resources he doesn't realize, at his disposal, to save the party.

[Rerednaw]

Depending on how charitable the players are feeling, it may be worth to have a sit down discussion. The person was at least willing to try GMing. And for most groups there are never enough whom are willing to step up.

Let the GM learn from his mistakes.

Also get a reading from the players. The GM said in your words he thought it went fine. Did it? Pathfinder is a colloborative story..did everyone have fun?

Explain the grappling rules.
Explain how storytelling may properly set the stage.
Explain action economy.
Explain how the CR rating and encounter building guidelines work.

Explain "rocks fall you die" is NOT good gming.

Invite his input here.

Good luck whatever you decide.

[stormridar]

Rerednaw wrote:

Depending on how charitable the players are feeling, it may be worth to have a sit down discussion. The person was at least willing to try GMing. And for most groups there are never enough whom are willing to step up.

Let the GM learn from his mistakes.

Also get a reading from the players. The GM said in your words he thought it went fine. Did it? Pathfinder is a colloborative story..did everyone have fun?

Explain the grappling rules.
Explain how storytelling may properly set the stage.
Explain action economy.
Explain how the CR rating and encounter building guidelines work.

Explain "rocks fall you die" is NOT good gming.

Invite his input here.

Good luck whatever you decide.

So, as GM for this particular campaign, i admit, i definitely made a lot of mistakes. I was, in my mind, attempting to go with the theme of the book and the encounter; and at the time, thought those actions were appropriate. Yes, I screwed up quite a bit. No, i didn't adjust properly to the situation. Yes, i am a new GM, i'm not using that as an excuse, just as a fact. Definitely misinterpreted some of the things in that encounter.

Unfortunately, in previous sessions I had made some of the encounters too easy, as expressed by a few of the players, and I went a little overboard with how difficult this TPK encounter was supposed to be and screwed it up, big time. I also didn't make the encounter difficult in the right way. Instead of adding a little extra HP/AC, i added different abilities. On top of that, i messed up the action economy of the enemy they faced, effectively rendering the entire encounter impossible. All of this was my fault, and mine alone.

I wasn't trying to TPK, i wanted everyone to have fun. It's not fun for me or anyone else when everyone dies, it totally sucks.

Best way to put it: #DMshame

[TOZ]

Been right there with you, murdered two characters and ran the rest off with a strong encounter while they were already wounded.

Endure and Renew!

[PossibleCabbage]

I mean a GM who has never F'ed up badly is a GM who wasn't aware enough to realize that they had F'ed up badly (or this is like their first time and they're about to.)

You can fix it if you want (as some people have suggested in this thread), but at the very least learn from it.

[Blymurkla]

stormridar wrote:

So, as GM for this particular campaign, i admit, i definitely made a lot of mistakes. I was, in my mind, attempting to go with the theme of the book and the encounter; and at the time, thought those actions were appropriate. Yes, I screwed up quite a bit. No, i didn't adjust properly to the situation. Yes, i am a new GM, i'm not using that as an excuse, just as a fact. Definitely misinterpreted some of the things in that encounter.

Unfortunately, in previous sessions I had made some of the encounters too easy, as expressed by a few of the players, and I went a little overboard with how difficult this TPK encounter was supposed to be and screwed it up, big time. I also didn't make the encounter difficult in the right way. Instead of adding a little extra HP/AC, i added different abilities. On top of that, i messed up the action economy of the enemy they faced, effectively rendering the entire encounter impossible. All of this was my fault, and mine alone.

I wasn't trying to TPK, i wanted everyone to have fun. It's not fun for me or anyone else when everyone dies, it totally sucks.

Best way to put it: #DMshame

It happens! You've got the gist of what it means to be a GM - to try and make everyone have fun. That's step one to being a good GM.

I hope this incident doesn't deter you from GMing in the future.

[Selvaxri]

stormridar wrote:

So, as GM for this particular campaign, i admit, i definitely made a lot of mistakes.

Best way to put it: #DMshame

You have one resource that could potentially save the players.

Strange Aeons:

Winter Klazcka, the CLERIC of Pharasma. She could be persuaded to join the party.

Don't be afraid to ask your other players to help you understand rules and mechanics. Knowing how the game works, even with spoiling a little bit, is better than ruining the scenario with a TPK from misunderstanding the mechanics.

[Bill Dunn]

Selvaxri wrote:

Don't be afraid to ask your other players to help you understand rules and mechanics. Knowing how the game works, even with spoiling a little bit, is better than ruining the scenario with a TPK from misunderstanding the mechanics.

This is a very good piece of advice. Your players are a source of information about how the rules work. Use them.

[Rerednaw]

stormridar wrote:

Rerednaw wrote:

Depending on how charitable the players are feeling, it may be worth to have a sit down discussion. The person was at least willing to try GMing. And for most groups there are never enough whom are willing to step up.

...
Invite his input here.

Good luck whatever you decide.

So, as GM for this particular campaign, i admit, i definitely made a lot of mistakes. I was, in my mind, attempting to go with the theme of the book and the encounter; and at the time, thought those actions were appropriate. Yes, I screwed up quite a bit. No, i didn't adjust properly to the situation. Yes, i am a new GM, i'm not using that as an excuse, just as a fact. Definitely misinterpreted some of the things in that encounter.

Unfortunately, in previous sessions I had made some of the encounters too easy, as expressed by a few of the players...
Best way to put it: #DMshame

Sir you are already ahead 90% of the gaming population.

#1 you are a GM. Congratulations. Many folks who are willing to criticize the GM never step up themselves and do not realize how difficult it is.
#2 you accept feedback and advice. Again this is a hallmark of both a good person as well as a GM. No one is perfect (heck I'll pulled my share and then some of really bad things)
#3 No shame. EVER. You do the best you can in a difficult situation and are willing to learn. I'm sure many of us would gladly play in a game where everyone is willing to say "okay oops, let's try that again."
#4 No one is born a GM. Like anything worthwhile it takes time and effort. We learn by repetition and from our mistakes.

Have fun and slay lots! Hopefully not as many PCs but hey if the dice fall... :)

[Leitner]

Rerednaw wrote:

Sir you are already ahead 90% of the gaming population.
#1 you are a GM. Congratulations. Many folks who are willing to criticize the GM never step up themselves and do not realize how difficult it is.
#2 you accept feedback and advice. Again this is a hallmark of both a good person as well as a GM. No one is perfect (heck I'll pulled my share and then some of really bad things)
#3 No shame. EVER. You do the best you can in a difficult situation and are willing to learn. I'm sure many of us would gladly play in a game where everyone is willing to say "okay oops, let's try that again."
#4 No one is born a GM. Like anything worthwhile it takes time and effort. We learn by repetition and from our mistakes.

Have fun and slay lots! Hopefully not as many PCs but hey if the dice fall... :)

I'd like to heartily agree with this post. Additionally, he is an awesome player to have around the table, and sadly with some people that doesn't end up being the case. You should all be so lucky.

Reminds me of my own infamous vescavor incident. Mistakes were definitely made.

[Glorf Fei-Hung]

Sounds like next session starts with everyone waking up staggered with night sweats and from this point on they need to roll will saves if they ever want to venture out into that fog!

[stormridar]

Leitner wrote:

Rerednaw wrote:

Sir you are already ahead 90% of the gaming population.
#1 you are a GM. Congratulations. Many folks who are willing to criticize the GM never step up themselves and do not realize how difficult it is.
#2 you accept feedback and advice. Again this is a hallmark of both a good person as well as a GM. No one is perfect (heck I'll pulled my share and then some of really bad things)
#3 No shame. EVER. You do the best you can in a difficult situation and are willing to learn. I'm sure many of us would gladly play in a game where everyone is willing to say "okay oops, let's try that again."
#4 No one is born a GM. Like anything worthwhile it takes time and effort. We learn by repetition and from our mistakes.

Have fun and slay lots! Hopefully not as many PCs but hey if the dice fall... :)

I'd like to heartily agree with this post. Additionally, he is an awesome player to have around the table, and sadly with some people that doesn't end up being the case. You should all be so lucky.

Reminds me of my own infamous vescavor incident. Mistakes were definitely made.

I appreciate the feedback. It was a rough night, trying to make it fun. But it failed in that attempt, but succeeded as a learning encounter. Sometime in the future, when/if the chance arises, I will definitely look back upon this and think again about mistakes as a GM and not repeat those mistakes. Any future TPK's will have to be followed by shots of rum!! Minus the TPK, but we can still have the rum :)

[The Mad Comrade]

Rum? You're going to go far, I can feel it. ;)

Have fun, learn as you go and make sure to read through the entire AP. Peruse the GM threads on the various chapters. Pillage ideas others post and post ideas you use that your group enjoyed!