I'm curious how other GMs deal with this situation.
Party fights some monsters. A few run away. Party gets XP for defeating all of them.
Later . . .
The monsters that ran away attack the party again. Party defeats them. Does the party gain XP again?
So the obvious answer is yes.
What I'm wondering about is the "Later . . . " part. Does it matter how much time lapses between the encounters? It's seems obvious the PCs get XP for defeating the same monsters again if the second encounter happens the following day, for instance.
But what about if the second encounter is only an hour later? two minutes later?
What if the fleeing monsters, keep attacking, are chased away, and then attack again and are chased away? etc. etc. etc.
Is there any circumstance in which I shouldn't award XP for all of these defeated creatures?
If a smaller group came back the 2nd time, the CR would drop. Unless of course they really get the drop on the PCs. I wouldn't give XP again if the 2nd fight isn't a challenge. Plus, the monsters might realize that it would be suicidal to attacks again and not do it.
Let's say you're bounty hunting and your target retreats successfully from combat. In this case the players failed the objective of encounter; maybe they don't deserve the full experience. (You could give them half for surviving the initial encounter and the other half later.)
If, on the other hand, they were on the way somewhere, got ambushed by some enemies, drove them away, and made it to their destination, then they succeeded at their goal and deserve the XP.
But if the enemies all just teleported out, healed up, and then returned a few minutes later, the party didn't really defeat them or achieve anything at all - why should they get experience for the initial inconclusive combat? It's basically one encounter with a brief interval.
You get XP for dealing with a situation. If your players sneak past guards without being noticed, that deserves XP. They probably rolled good Stealth checks versus their Perception, or spent resources to go past unnoticed. If five minutes later the guards get alarmed and fight them again, this time physically, I'd award them the same amount of XP. Hell, even if they manage to roleplay/Diplomacy their way out of it, that deserves XP.
Basically, you get XP for dealing with a situation. Typically, that amount of XP remains the same, though it feels like they "earned" it more when they fight. Attacking an enemy party and then retreating maybe results in less XP, or when the enemy party retreats, but you've still handled a potentially dangerous situation. Hell, that's why traps always have an XP award, even for just seeing it and stepping around it altogether. Even if you have no way of disabling it and consciously trigger it, you're still putting yourself in danger and expending resources on fixing it.
If your party attacks some monsters and some monsters run away, award XP for the killed monsters and some bonus XP for the additional threat. If the monsters come back later, give them the amount of XP the new encounter will award (though not if they're, as Matthew said, basically one encounter with 2 rounds of healing in between). Fleeing is still a viable tactic.
The way I run it is I give full XP for defeated creatures and 1/2 for those that ran and got away. If they party later defeats those escapees they get the 1/2 they missed out on the first time.
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I make a behind the screen judgement as to whether the party achieved a lasting triumph over the enemy/situation, or merely a temporary one, and award either full or partial xp accordingly. If an enemy is simply making a tactical retreat and will rally and attack (or wait in ambush), then the challenge they represent has not truly been dealt with until that latter confrontation, so only partial xp for now. If they are routed and not to return, then full xp.
Exception for recurring adversaries who are bested for now, but return to pose a new and different challenge in a later episode. Then full xp available each time the party defeats then
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Another solution is to level the party up at appropriate places in the story, instead of worrying about how many monsters they kill.
The way I run it is I give full XP for defeated creatures and 1/2 for those that ran and got away. If they party later defeats those escapees they get the 1/2 they missed out on the first time.
This only encourages murderhoboism. If something was forced to flee the field of battle it is defeated.
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I'm curious how other GMs deal with this situation.
Party fights some monsters. A few run away. Party gets XP for defeating all of them.
Later . . .
The monsters that ran away attack the party again. Party defeats them. Does the party gain XP again?
Depends.
You could argue that the second attack happen only because the PCs didn't really defeat their attackers, they just allowed them to withdraw. In this case, the second combat could be considered part of the first encounter, and you could choose to withhold XP from the non-slain monsters until after it was fully resolved.
On the other hand, you could call the first combat resolved, and then treat the second combat as a new encounter. Though with the dropped monsters, this second combat will have lower CR and might not be worth the same XP that they would have been worth as parts of a large group.
Another thing here is if you are awarding XP to your NPCs for their encounters the the PCs. Surviving a deadly encounter with PCs should award quite a bit of XP for the surviving monsters. Could use that XP to beef them up for a second encounter, one that is more balanced against the party's level now that your encounter has lost members. In this case, you'd be giving the PCs XP for both encounters.
Ultimately, it comes down to the goals of the PCs at the time of the encounter. If they deal with the encounter to the point that they can move on toward their goals, they've defeated it and get the XPs. That could be killing their opponents, making them flee, negotiating a deal, whatever. If they encounter the opponent again and that opponent again acts as a barrier, then you bet they get the XP for defeating them again.
I don't award xp twice for the same monsters. If the monsters run away and it is determined they will not return, I award xp. If the monsters run away but it is decided they will return, the xp is awarded upon their eventual defeat or being driven off/dealt with permanently.
EXP is really just a gamey term. Are the players aware they are gaining EXP? If you let them micromanage their encounters they might do so weird stuff to maximise their EXP gain, like casting breath of life on the big bad evil guy to kill him again for double EXP.
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EXP is really just a gamey term. Are the players aware they are gaining EXP? If you let them micromanage their encounters they might do so weird stuff to maximise their EXP gain, like casting breath of life on the big bad evil guy to kill him again for double EXP.
Totally agree. This is one of the many issues with PC/videogame RPGs. Don't tell the PCs when they get xp unless you are trying to encourage a certain type of behaviour. Either XP at the end of the session, or just tell them when they level.
Not pathfinder, but I had a GM for another game that had a house rule where you'd get 25xp each time you successfully used a skill. Basically, goal was to encourage players to use their skills. And 25xp becomes negligible very quickly with scaling xp per level increase, but the habit remains and that is the goal. Pathfinder doesn't really need this sort of thing, since their skills come up more often in normal use.
If the people that got away are joining in the second fight of the dungeon then no. Set the EXP the dungeon is giving and let them solve the dungeon as they wish.
If the people that got aware are "replacing people"/"making a reappearance" in a different dungeon then yes, they are a new and separate threat now.
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I don't award xp twice for the same monsters. If the monsters run away and it is determined they will not return, I award xp. If the monsters run away but it is decided they will return, the xp is awarded upon their eventual defeat or being driven off/dealt with permanently.So, players have a strong incentive to kill everything they fight?
If that's how you interpret it... Not being able to run away, and being killed should not be the same thing.
The way I run it is I give full XP for defeated creatures and 1/2 for those that ran and got away. If they party later defeats those escapees they get the 1/2 they missed out on the first time.This only encourages murderhoboism. If something was forced to flee the field of battle it is defeated.
I would counter that it only happens when you players play murderhobos. My group doesn't play that way.
The OP wanted to know what we do. That is what we do and it works fine for my group.
This is one of those 'fine line' judgement calls for me.
If the bad guys run off and return within a short enough time period that it is the same encounter then they don't get any extra XP. If the bad guys run away and sufficient time passes or it is clearly a separate encounter then the players can earn XP off of them again.
That is how encounter based XP works after all.
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Are monsters not deadly in your game? Or do your players think their characters don't really mind the risk to their lives for no gain?I would counter that it only happens when you players play murderhobos. My group doesn't play that way.
The OP wanted to know what we do. That is what we do and it works fine for my group.
Um, neither? My players are generally mature and more interested in story and fun that absolutely extracting every XP/GP/Gear reward possible at all times with no thought to anything else.
We discussed it and they and I came up with the system we use. Is that a problem?
I don't award xp twice for the same monsters. If the monsters run away and it is determined they will not return, I award xp. If the monsters run away but it is decided they will return, the xp is awarded upon their eventual defeat or being driven off/dealt with permanently.So, players have a strong incentive to kill everything they fight?
In general, yes, because quite often their characters' lives depend on it. But it's not about killing everything, it's about overcoming encounters. The players have numerous ways to overcome encounters. If some of the bad guys flee for their lives, I (as the DM) make the decision if their morale would have them flee for good (XP awarded) or sneak back to fight again in the near future (no XP awarded). Pretty simple. The players don't get an itemized list of what XP they were awarded anyway. They get a total amount at the start of the next session. As long as they're progressing at a steady clip no one even cares what XP was awarded for what encounter.