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1. Not by the rules. There are spells that can give you information about a person's spellcasting potential.
You can make some educated guesses based on their equipment. If the person is casting magic missle but is wearing breastplate, than you might assume that the person is a magus.
2. Only if the spell has the "Dismissiable" component. Otherwise you're only option is to cast Dispel Magic, which automatically succeeds against your own spells, provided the spell is dispellable.
3. The manner in which you present your questions with can have a good deal of impact on the level of help you get. Start with a passive/agressive attitude, and you may get your wish by a total lack of response at all.
Yeah, Spellcraft can identify the spells... which would only what possible classes can cast that spell. I'm not that familiar with Witches, but I seem to recall they had a fairly unique list of spells. It wouldn't be an automatic identify, (and little old ladies on the street shouldn't have the stats for a 40... but who knows)
After a couple of spells go off, they may be able to narrow it down pretty quick though. But just in general... Is he a wizard with Eschew Materials or Sorcerer would be REALLY hard to determine based on observation...
Deductive reasoning.
Spellcraft identifies the spell, which then identifies what classes can cast that spell.
If a divine class uses a holy symbol and that wasn't used during the casting then you can eliminate that class from the list.
Next, if a Witch casts a spell that normally an arcane class doesn't have access to (CLW) that again indicates class.
Example:
Witch casts Mage Armor (you identify the spell correctly).
Sometime later the Witch casts Cure Light Wounds (you also identified this).
You now have all the evidence you need to identify the Witch as a Witch.
With a few exceptions, only Witches have both spells on their spell list.
The counter would be a fantastic bluff skill. There are a few possible feats and traits that will let you add a spell to your list not to mention any number of multiclassing.
So if you get caught casting mage armor and CLW... it's really only about 85% likely you're a witch... Lie your head off and make it believable ;)
Zone of Truth does not make you answer or keep you from just walking away.
In character knowledge would lead me to believe they are a divine caster of some sort. The holy rings could simply be her holy symbols, and the bunny could merely be a strange pet.
Unless you were Evil(which I gather you weren't?) you wouldn't have shown up as such from Detect Evil unless you had 5 HD.
A Witch casting Zone of Truth will identify you as either a Witch or an Oracle due to a lack of a divine focus presented at the time of casting.
From there you can usually determine class because of certain differences between Oracles and Witch.
Examples: Oracles have a often visible curse. Witches have a familiar while Oracles usually don't.
Based on the appearance you just described and the fact you just cast Zone of Truth I would absolutely be reasonable in stating with a high degree of probability that you are a Witch.
yeah, Zone of truth is a Cleric/Oracle, Inquisitor, Paladin, Witch spell.
It COULD be ruled that Spellcraft/detect would let you identify if a spell cast is arcane or Divine... and Witches are the only Arcane one on that list...
However, witches are also NOT proficient in armor and take penalties wearing it...
but you also have an animal companion/familiar/pet... So really there are clues around. I think they COULD have guessed that you were either a witch or multiclassed with a witch, but in reality, they used a lot of outside info to disrupt your RP secret... which I would be pretty annoyed at.
I once kept the fact that my character was a 200 year old vampire a secret from the group for about 8 years real time, and at least 4-5 playing years... They found out afterwards and it was GLORIOUS!!
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Nothing prevents characters from having researched spells that don't exist in a rule book or are on other spell lists. That is a GM call. There are spells designed to be misidentified so you can never be certain what you ID is correct.
Witch is a class name, nothing more. I wouldn't assume it was a term in general use by characters in game. If it is, it's probably just an insult to spell casters, not tied to a game mechanic(class levels).Sounds like some in game background exists, but doesn't make sense.
The paladin can easily tell if you are evil or not. Assuming you are a high enough level to be detected. Weather invading your privacy is moraly correct is debatable. Even if you are evil, If you behave the paladin cannot do much against you without falling.
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is it possible to identify a person's class via a spell they cast?
example:
in the last game my new character was introduced and described my character and that rowdy did not want to to share what class she was because these people were new to here and being a witch has some bad juju attached to it. (i flipped for gender. my choice. its how i roll.) and that she might let them know what class she was once she got to know the party if it would not get her burned at the stake. and thus rowdy the ratfolk and her faithful companion Bramble the unicorn bunny (Almiraj) joined the party.
the parties paladin walks into the room with detect evil on. the DM makes it look like my is emanating evil. "you walk into the room and you sense an evil aura in the direction of the rat (playing a ratfolk)in the room. the paladin points in my direction and says "i sense some evil in this room". since i am trying to hide the fact of my class i quickly cast "zone of truth" spell and state "i am not evil." the wizard who is not in the room in another part of the building with five walls and a large courtyard between us states "i roll knowledge arcane identify what class you are. i rolled an 18 + 13 "your a witch!"." i state "your not here you can't just appear and make rolls on your own. your are hiding in your room on the other side of the house creating magic items." discovery averted. the DM makes a roll "its a 40" and the old lady NPC says/states/yells "your a witch." and thus i spend the next 20 minutes being interrogated by the old lady under my own truth spell. because i can't end it or dismiss my own spell.
Wow, goofy group. Perhaps you should talk to the DM ahead of time, if you want to conceal aspects of your character from your fellow party members. Kinda sounds like you were being bullied, which is more an issue of players and personality than actual rules.
But for your questions, no, there isn't any skill or spell that really identifies classes. Kinda a weak point to the game in that respect, given how many detection spells and skills they do have. Even zone of truth wouldn't really apply unless your character self-identifies as a witch (and you could be any class, just a person that thinks they are a witch).
Spellcraft does allow you to determine the type of magic (Arcane, Divine, or Psychic), but not the class casting it. So a PC could deduce that if your character has a familiar and no spellbook, and casts arcane spells, they are probably a witch. Wouldn't be 100%, but it would be a reasonable conclusion. But that would all be out of character anyway, since the player classes are more an out of character concept, than they are an in-game concept.
As for detect evil, sounds like you are playing a higher level party. The witch class shouldn't have an evil aura unless the PC has an evil alignment AND is 6 HD or stronger (unless you are an evil outsider or multi-class divine caster of an evil deity). There are spells with which a higher level character can conceal their alignment from detection abilities.
I'm not sure I'd agree with that per se... Wizards are arcane casters that have spellbooks. Sorcerers are Arcane Spellcasters that have the powers inside them. Witches are arcane casters that have familiars and gain powers from a mysterious outside 'patron'.
They are vastly different classes that anyone with a few ranks in Spellcraft or Arcana would feel strongly about the differences. The average townsfolk may not know the difference... but it's not QUITE as simple as just 'calling yourself a witch...'
Fighters and Rangers and Barbarians... yeah, there's a lot of overlap there... but with those arcane classes? It's like calling a brain surgeon a pediatrician or dentist... They may all be 'doctors'... but they're going to quickly correct you about the differences.
Nothing prevents characters from having researched spells that don't exist in a rule book or are on other spell lists. That is a GM call. There are spells designed to be misidentified so you can never be certain what you ID is correct.
Witch is a class name, nothing more. I wouldn't assume it was a term in general use by characters in game. If it is, it's probably just an insult to spell casters, not tied to a game mechanic(class levels).Sounds like some in game background exists, but doesn't make sense.
The paladin can easily tell if you are evil or not. Assuming you are a high enough level to be detected. Weather invading your privacy is moraly correct is debatable. Even if you are evil, If you behave the paladin cannot do much against you without falling.
Why do you think it is just a mechanic? Why do you think it is not a term in use by characters?
Clearly, there would have to be some way for characters in a game to identify that there are different types of spellcasters. Why not simply use a name that everyone can easily reference?
People have this idea that 'terms used in a book are not used by the characters' but this makes no sense other than trying to create an artificial 'player knowledge vs character knowledge' barrier.
Whatever term the characters use, it is analogous to the one we use to describe the same concept. So lets not make work for ourselves. It is a witch in game and out of game. Just like a wizard is a wizard and a cleric is a cleric.
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I'm not sure I'd agree with that per se... Wizards are arcane casters that have spellbooks. Sorcerers are Arcane Spellcasters that have the powers inside them. Witches are arcane casters that have familiars and gain powers from a mysterious outside 'patron'.
They are vastly different classes that anyone with a few ranks in Spellcraft or Arcana would feel strongly about the differences. The average townsfolk may not know the difference... but it's not QUITE as simple as just 'calling yourself a witch...'
Got a rules quote there?
Not seeing anything in the CRB regarding Spellcraft that suggests you'd know which class cast the spell. Not seeing the CRB reference for using Knowledge Arcana in this manner, either. You can certainly use both to ID arcane spells, but knowing which class was casting them is outside the rules actually written.
You can certainly ID the spell, but certainly doesn't mention any ability to ID the class that cast the spell. Out of character, a wizard would get a +2 bonus to ID spells from their specialist school and -5 to spells from their opposed school, but you the character wouldn't know if it was an opposed school spell unless they succeeded in their spellcraft check.
As for IDing the spell as arcane or divine, I'm just getting that based on the Hidden Priest archetype, but beyond that, I'm not seeing special rules that inform players what type of magic is being cast. And I'm assuming that psychic magic applies the same way, if only because the Hidden Priest is older than the psychic rules being in Paizo's setting.
Detect Magic, the spell, does allow a Knowledge Arcana check to ID the school of the spell based on the spell's aura, but also doesn't ID the class that cast it.
Arcane Sight allows you to use Spellcraft to ID spells, determine if a target has spellcasting, determine if they are arcane or divine spells, and the strength of the strongest spell or spell-like ability the target has. Doesn't mention any ability determine the class of the target.
Mind you, if it's outside the rules, that means it's up to the GM. So I'd certainly go with the GM's ruling here. And if you can find rules on this one, I'd love to know them, as they sound pretty useful. As is, I don't think Pathfinder has spells or skills to ID classes.
Which part?
I was merely talking about the differences in-world between the arcane casters. They wouldn't be just titles that were interchangeable to people who knew what they were talking about. You can call yourself a wizard, but if you get spells from your cat and a dark patron... then you're not a wizard. Wizards would know the difference
ESPECIALLY if you're in a party with people who see you every day. What you prepare, IF you prepare, and how you would do it are telltale signs of your class. Martial is a lot more blurry as a great archer could be called a fighter, a ranger or even monk... and be tough to tell. But in-world those arcane classes have a flavor that's separate from just mechanics.
As for Identifying classes with a skill? I don't think you really could. However when you're identifying magical aura's or spell effects, I would believe that 'Divine or Arcane' should be part of the information gleaned. And with the example given of 'Zone of Truth' Witch is the ONLY class on the spell list that casts that as an Arcane spell.
Also, using Spellcraft while it was cast... You have this,
Divine Focus (DF): A divine focus component is an item of spiritual signif icance. The divine focus for a cleric or a paladin is a holy symbol appropriate to the character’s faith. The divine focus for a druid or a ranger is a sprig of holly, or some other sacred plant.
If the Components line includes F/DF or M/DF, the arcane version of the spell has a focus component or a material component (the abbreviation before the slash) and the divine version has a divine focus component (the abbreviation after the slash).
If you're casting a spell (like zone of Truth) that requires a DF, it should be pretty obvious If you are a cleric/Paladin/Inquisitor, and what god it is that you serve by the holy symbol being used. If you're not using any of those?? Antoher clue that it was the Arcane Witch...
So yeah, there wouldn't be any specific skill check that reveals class, but there are ways to use the existing skills to narrow things down. Some spells and some classes are harder than others. Unless you're traveling with the caster every day and only see him casting the same 4 spells all the time and not care at all about spellbooks... It would be near impossible to tell the difference between Wizard and Sorcerer in the heat of battle. Wizard and Cleric? Pretty obvious. Cleric and Oracle? A bit blurrier. Add in some multiclassing or Hybrid classes and there isn't anything you should REALLY take for granted.
Alternatively I could see people using Knowledge Arcana to know the Ancient Mysteries, magic traditions arcane symbols... and/or Knowledge Local to know the customs, traditions, and... humanoids. It's pretty much a catch all for day to day stuff which class identification could fall into.
A Witch casting Zone of Truth will identify you as either a Witch or an Oracle due to a lack of a divine focus presented at the time of casting.
Could also be a cleric with a tattoo or some alternative sort of focus. And given that all gods are not as well known as Iomedae etc. good luck identifying that the seagul flying above the ship in the storm on the guys tatoo is the symbol of his god.
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From your previous posts it seems that your GM is harassing you in game just for being a witch.
See, the trouble here is not if what he did is legit, but that he is always making everybody know you are a witch so he can harass you.
He has stated everybody hates witches and now he's making sure that everybody knows you are one so they can hate you.
That's not cool.
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said lots of stuff
Sounds like we agree, mostly. You can't determine the class with certainty, using pathfinder rules, but you can narrow it down and make an educated guess.
Though for wizards, it wouldn't super obvious the way you are describing, since their are a lots of ways wizards can be built, including ones that use their familiar as a spellbook, just like the witch. Just like there are witch builds without familiars.
For wizards, the main defining trait is that their magic was taught over many years. Ask about the arcane caster's appenticeship, or "harry potter" style magic school, and you could determine if they were a wizard or not. Especially if their school or master was a famous one.
The witch is trained too, and honestly, if a witch was disguised as a wizard, there wouldn't be a huge difference. Both INT based arcane casters. And if the witch is "disguised," could just restrict themselves to only spells that a wizard could cast.
Still, old guy/gal, spellbook, reads a lot, doesn't like melee: Probably a wizard....
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she is a ratfolk. she is wearing light armor (a haramaki or belly warmer armor). she has a strange Almiraj pet that changes sizes at will and she rides poorly as a mount sometimes. she is carrying a collapsible kumade a dagger and a tail blade and three javelins on her back. she wears a necklace of broken holy rings and some on her tail that are not broken, which she sometimes clutches while casting spells. she has cast one spell that you know of "zone of truth". and her skin is cold to the touch. and she seems jovial, friendly, chatty and laughs softly to herself almost constantly when she is not chatting and she seems to be distracted by shiny things. and has tells you off when you offer her cheese. what do you think her class is with out using "out of character" knowledge.
Just sake of arguement, the Pathfinder setting doesn't really have ratfolk as a "good guy" race. So if I were a player, I'd certainly be cautious around you. And despite casting spells, your description sounds more like a rogue (which is much more dangerous to the party than a witch would ever be. Those Chaotic Rogues are the worst...).
Does also sound like the other players (and the GM) are jerks.
I suggest finding another party. Either for that character, or for you the player. Doesn't seem like your character is welcome with this group, and it could be just that the players and the GM are jerks and that no matter what you do, it will be the same.
A Witch casting Zone of Truth will identify you as either a Witch or an Oracle due to a lack of a divine focus presented at the time of casting.Could also be a cleric with a tattoo or some alternative sort of focus. And given that all gods are not as well known as Iomedae etc. good luck identifying that the seagul flying above the ship in the storm on the guys tatoo is the symbol of his god.
He still has to present his divine focus even if it is a tattoo or birthmark unless a rule states otherwise.
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Come on, folks -- what are they teaching in schools these days? Doesn't everybody know that if you really want to determine if someone is a Witch, you have to compare their weight to that of a duck?
Deductive reasoning.
Spellcraft identifies the spell, which then identifies what classes can cast that spell.
If a divine class uses a holy symbol and that wasn't used during the casting then you can eliminate that class from the list.Next, if a Witch casts a spell that normally an arcane class doesn't have access to (CLW) that again indicates class.
Example:
Witch casts Mage Armor (you identify the spell correctly).
Sometime later the Witch casts Cure Light Wounds (you also identified this).You now have all the evidence you need to identify the Witch as a Witch.
With a few exceptions, only Witches have both spells on their spell list.
I don't know about that my group has seem a lot of use from Arcanists with the White Mage Archetype. There are probably plenty of other ways out there to mix and match the spell lists too.
On topic, I wouldn't allow someone to simply identify a character's class based on spell list. For one, class isn't an actual thing it's just a tool we as gamers use to describe a particular collection of skills and abilities. Two, magic in general tends to be quite diverse with a lot of exceptions to it's own rules. The whole exchange given in the example wreaks of meta-gaming.
What I would allow is the possibility that under proper scrutiny the source of a Witch's magic can be identified. This would require far more than a simple skill check. At a minimum I'd require the witch and familiar be analyzed by Detect Magic while casting a spell.
Hark, that is why I used the phrases 'normally' and 'with a few exceptions'.
He still has to present his divine focus even if it is a tattoo or birthmark unless a rule states otherwise.A Witch casting Zone of Truth will identify you as either a Witch or an Oracle due to a lack of a divine focus presented at the time of casting.Could also be a cleric with a tattoo or some alternative sort of focus. And given that all gods are not as well known as Iomedae etc. good luck identifying that the seagul flying above the ship in the storm on the guys tatoo is the symbol of his god.
What is "presenting"? My understanding is it must be visible. So a dot on your forehead, the symbol of the god of abstract art, should be "presented" at all times. Now if the focus is supposed to glow it could be a giveaway. But I'd read an older thread where a cleric was told to hide his god by presenting more than one symbols. If that poster was correct there should be no "glow" or distinguishing effect from the focus.
Edit: Don't know if anyone mentioned it but theres always the wizard Spell Sage to throw you off. They cast from all spell lists.
One thing I do not understand, is why does it matter if you are a witch. The paladin detects you as evil. Let's suppose your bluff roll works, and they believe you aren't a witch.
That leaves you as an evil cleric, if they identify the Zone of Truth, or if they don't, as some sort of evil wizard or sorcerer, or whatever. How is that better? Would they burn a witch, but not a necromancer, or conjurer diabolist, or a cleric of Rovavug?
About the zone of truth and identifying it. Keep in mind that if they don't identify it as a zone of truth, casting it is pointless. The only reason to cast it is to make them know that you are telling the truth. If you just do random gestures, and cast an unknown spell (say, you cast circle of protection, or detect undead or endure elements) they will not have any reason to believe you. They HAVE to suceed in the spellcraft, or the Zone of Truth is useless.
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Nothing prevents characters from having researched spells that don't exist in a rule book or are on other spell lists. That is a GM call. There are spells designed to be misidentified so you can never be certain what you ID is correct.
Witch is a class name, nothing more. I wouldn't assume it was a term in general use by characters in game. If it is, it's probably just an insult to spell casters, not tied to a game mechanic(class levels).Sounds like some in game background exists, but doesn't make sense.
The paladin can easily tell if you are evil or not. Assuming you are a high enough level to be detected. Weather invading your privacy is moraly correct is debatable. Even if you are evil, If you behave the paladin cannot do much against you without falling.
Why do you think it is just a mechanic? Why do you think it is not a term in use by characters?
Clearly, there would have to be some way for characters in a game to identify that there are different types of spellcasters. Why not simply use a name that everyone can easily reference?
People have this idea that 'terms used in a book are not used by the characters' but this makes no sense other than trying to create an artificial 'player knowledge vs character knowledge' barrier.
Whatever term the characters use, it is analogous to the one we use to describe the same concept. So lets not make work for ourselves. It is a witch in game and out of game. Just like a wizard is a wizard and a cleric is a cleric.
Agreed, the issue with player knowledge of witches and character knowledge of witches should not be in what they are called, but rather in the associated risks of being burned at the stake just because someone pointed at you and yelled "WITCH!"
In a world without magic, people that are accused of using magic drawn from malevolent forces are deemed witches and burned at the stake. In a world with magic, people that are accuse of using magic drawn from malevolent forces are deemed witches and treated as any other magic or non-magic user would be by the actions they perform, not simply the source of their power. Otherwise it would be no different than a Mage or Bloodrager who draws their power from an evil bloodline.
Additionally any experienced Paladin would know there are people that detect as evil yet are not evil themselves, or possibly are evil from previous actions but are working to change themselves.
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My suspicion is that the GM did not want a witch in his game, for whatever reasons. Maybe he feels they are too powerful (some GM think so, because of the resusable slumber,etc) or maybe in his campaign the bad guys are going to be witches, or whatever.
But he didn't have the guts to say "that class is banned" so instead he harass the PC witch.
My suspicion is that the GM did not want a witch in his game, for whatever reasons. Maybe he feels they are too powerful (some GM think so, because of the resusable slumber,etc) or maybe in his campaign the bad guys are going to be witches, or whatever.
But he didn't have the guts to say "that class is banned" so instead he harass the PC witch.
GM thinks it funny / cool most probably. Been there.
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To come back at the first question of the OP, there is only one way that I recall that allows someone to identify someone's spellcasting class (without house rules and/or massive undercover operations).
The feat Scrutinize Spell from Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Path of the Hellknight allows one to identify the class of a person while checking what is being casted. Also some other benefits, including free intimidate for publicly calling them out.
I'm not sure I'd agree with that per se... Wizards are arcane casters that have spellbooks. Sorcerers are Arcane Spellcasters that have the powers inside them. Witches are arcane casters that have familiars and gain powers from a mysterious outside 'patron'.
Magi are arcane casters that may or may not have a spellbook and/or wear armor, depending on archetype.
Bards are arcane casters that have no spellbooks and can cast CLW.
Shaman are divine casters that have familiars, use hexes and don't rely on holy symbols.
It would be incredibly difficult to identify the casting class of a Hellknight Signifier. Gear worn (Hellknight Plate) would be standard regardless of initial class or arcane/divine focus.
The spell Arcane Sight can give you insight into a casters abilities and type.
th dm set it up to make it look as if i was evil by having an evil spirit hover directly behind my pc while the paladin was searching for evil room by room. my character is neutral. and witch is whats on my sheet since it is the closest to what i wanted my pc to do even though i did not have enough levels to be what i wanted her to be. and yes that is the impression that Conan and the DM gave me. magic users are despised.One thing I do not understand, is why does it matter if you are a witch. The paladin detects you as evil. Let's suppose your bluff roll works, and they believe you aren't a witch.
That leaves you as an evil cleric, if they identify the Zone of Truth, or if they don't, as some sort of evil wizard or sorcerer, or whatever. How is that better? Would they burn a witch, but not a necromancer, or conjurer diabolist, or a cleric of Rovavug?
About the zone of truth and identifying it. Keep in mind that if they don't identify it as a zone of truth, casting it is pointless. The only reason to cast it is to make them know that you are telling the truth. If you just do random gestures, and cast an unknown spell (say, you cast circle of protection, or detect undead or endure elements) they will not have any reason to believe you. They HAVE to suceed in the spellcraft, or the Zone of Truth is useless.
Directly hover behind? Would that even work? How would you detect as evil?
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What an unpleasant GM. Have a serious talk with him about being set up like that, and what precautions would be appropriate for a character who has been in this setting for their whole life, learning how to hide their class from casual observers. It might be a good idea to keep a holy symbol and/or spell book on you.
Having an evil spirit just happen to be floating over your shoulder while the Paladin scans is a jerk move. There will be no good way to handle that kind of thing in-character. You can talk to the GM to convince him to be reasonable, switch classes (there's a Wizard archetype with a patron and an Arcanist archetype with the Witch spell list), buckle down for passive-aggressive behavior, talk to the other players about your character so at least the party is reasonable, or (and you've ruled this out) leave the group.
I think Inner Sea Intrigue included rules for identifying classes by class features, but I doubt that's being used.
Directly hover behind? Would that even work? How would you detect as evil?The usual way Detect X spells work is in a cone and concentrating to get additional info. Paladins can also use Detect Evil directly on a person or object. But from the description, the Paladin was using the cone, so an evil presence behind the Witch would register.
Still don't get it. I always imagined the aura emanating from the creature. So an invisible creature behind the witch would not make the witch detect as evil. And can you sense the evil aura of creatures you can't see? Probably yes, but wondering.
I don't know why we are trying to make sense of all this stuff when it's so clear that the GM is just looking for excuses to keep harassing the poor witch.
I've read enough of Zainale's posts to start being tired of a GM I don't even know.
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Regarding the Detect Evil, your GM having something 'in your vicinity' that is evil does not mean you register as Evil.
Round 1 standard action: yes there is evil in that direction. That evil does not have to be visible.
Round 1 move action: if you are the only visible person he can spend a move action to determine if you, specifically, are evil.
No Paladin should be tricked by 'something evil is behind you'. Any Paladin that is is just lazy and probably at risk for killing non-evil things.
Oh, and rather than cast a spell, your reaction should be: where is it?
Paladin's response should be to figure out where (wait 2 more rounds) or determine if you are evil via move action.
th dm set it up to make it look as if i was evil by having an evil spirit hover directly behind my pc while the paladin was searching for evil room by room. my character is neutral. and witch is whats on my sheet since it is the closest to what i wanted my pc to do even though i did not have enough levels to be what i wanted her to be. and yes that is the impression that Conan and the DM gave me. magic users are despised.One thing I do not understand, is why does it matter if you are a witch. The paladin detects you as evil. Let's suppose your bluff roll works, and they believe you aren't a witch.
That leaves you as an evil cleric, if they identify the Zone of Truth, or if they don't, as some sort of evil wizard or sorcerer, or whatever. How is that better? Would they burn a witch, but not a necromancer, or conjurer diabolist, or a cleric of Rovavug?
About the zone of truth and identifying it. Keep in mind that if they don't identify it as a zone of truth, casting it is pointless. The only reason to cast it is to make them know that you are telling the truth. If you just do random gestures, and cast an unknown spell (say, you cast circle of protection, or detect undead or endure elements) they will not have any reason to believe you. They HAVE to suceed in the spellcraft, or the Zone of Truth is useless.
Detect spells are line-of-effect. If the spirit was behind you relative to paladin then the evil wouldn't have been detected at all, because your character would be blocking it.
I don't know why we are trying to make sense of all this stuff when it's so clear that the GM is just looking for excuses to keep harassing the poor witch.
I've read enough of Zainale's posts to start being tired of a GM I don't even know.
Agree. Because others might look to this thread someday for advice of their own, I feel it is fair to make the obligatory suggestion that the player should walk away from this group (even though the OP has said they are unwilling to do so.) They are not a healthy group and no long-term good will come from any specific issue we help resolve here today.
Detect spells are line-of-effect. If the spirit was behind you relative to paladin then the evil wouldn't have been detected at all, because your character would be blocking it.th dm set it up to make it look as if i was evil by having an evil spirit hover directly behind my pc while the paladin was searching for evil room by room. my character is neutral. and witch is whats on my sheet since it is the closest to what i wanted my pc to do even though i did not have enough levels to be what i wanted her to be. and yes that is the impression that Conan and the DM gave me. magic users are despised.One thing I do not understand, is why does it matter if you are a witch. The paladin detects you as evil. Let's suppose your bluff roll works, and they believe you aren't a witch.
That leaves you as an evil cleric, if they identify the Zone of Truth, or if they don't, as some sort of evil wizard or sorcerer, or whatever. How is that better? Would they burn a witch, but not a necromancer, or conjurer diabolist, or a cleric of Rovavug?
About the zone of truth and identifying it. Keep in mind that if they don't identify it as a zone of truth, casting it is pointless. The only reason to cast it is to make them know that you are telling the truth. If you just do random gestures, and cast an unknown spell (say, you cast circle of protection, or detect undead or endure elements) they will not have any reason to believe you. They HAVE to suceed in the spellcraft, or the Zone of Truth is useless.
Creatures do not block line of effect.
Creatures do not block line of effect.Detect spells are line-of-effect. If the spirit was behind you relative to paladin then the evil wouldn't have been detected at all, because your character would be blocking it.th dm set it up to make it look as if i was evil by having an evil spirit hover directly behind my pc while the paladin was searching for evil room by room. my character is neutral. and witch is whats on my sheet since it is the closest to what i wanted my pc to do even though i did not have enough levels to be what i wanted her to be. and yes that is the impression that Conan and the DM gave me. magic users are despised.One thing I do not understand, is why does it matter if you are a witch. The paladin detects you as evil. Let's suppose your bluff roll works, and they believe you aren't a witch.
That leaves you as an evil cleric, if they identify the Zone of Truth, or if they don't, as some sort of evil wizard or sorcerer, or whatever. How is that better? Would they burn a witch, but not a necromancer, or conjurer diabolist, or a cleric of Rovavug?
About the zone of truth and identifying it. Keep in mind that if they don't identify it as a zone of truth, casting it is pointless. The only reason to cast it is to make them know that you are telling the truth. If you just do random gestures, and cast an unknown spell (say, you cast circle of protection, or detect undead or endure elements) they will not have any reason to believe you. They HAVE to suceed in the spellcraft, or the Zone of Truth is useless.
Yeah, missed that.
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th dm set it up to make it look as if i was evil by having an evil spirit hover directly behind my pc while the paladin was searching for evil room by room. my character is neutral. and witch is whats on my sheet since it is the closest to what i wanted my pc to do even though i did not have enough levels to be what i wanted her to be. and yes that is the impression that Conan and the DM gave me. magic users are despised.
Sounds like you have a wizard and a paladin in your party. Both of those are magic users. Doesn't seem like magic users are despised, sounds like your character exclusively is despised.
Directly hover behind? Would that even work? How would you detect as evil?The usual way Detect X spells work is in a cone and concentrating to get additional info. Paladins can also use Detect Evil directly on a person or object. But from the description, the Paladin was using the cone, so an evil presence behind the Witch would register.
Even if you use the cone method and determine the evil is radiating from the witch's space, like a shadow of evil, the paladin could still switch methods and verify if the PC was the source or not. Would only be a standard action for a Paladin.
Sounds like the paladin is trying to make it look like your character is evil. That, or he's trying to role play a very low INT paladin.
Still sounds like the issue is that your fellow players and the DM are jerks, not that this rules thing. I'd find another group.
to clarify the paladin is not a bad guy low int and a bit smithy when things tweak his beard. the player is a cool guy. the DM set up the situation that way. he just walked into the room scanned it and pointed at the place directly behind me which can be construed as him pointing at my character "there is evil in this room."] apon which i clutched my necklace and cast "zone of truth" which lets everyone present now that only truth can be spoken and stated "well i am not evil." so as to defuse the situation before anything bad could happen. i try not to use OCC information and i try to stay IC and react as such when i play.
(I bolded it)
This is not really how Detect Evil works.Round 1: Presence of Evil
Round 2: Number of Auras and the power of the strongest Aura
Round 3: Location of Auras and the powers of the auras.
At no point do you get 'direction' of auras...you get location. This means that at no point should the paladin confuse the evil behind you for you.
The closest you get to 'direction' is a 60' cone at which point the evil can be ANYWHERE in that cone (in rounds 1 and 2).
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I feel like "classes" are an abstraction that exist for players, and not something that people in the game world should really have a good grasp on.
To most non-experts, both the character with 8 Barbarian levels and his or her parents that have herded goats in the mountains for decades are "Barbarians". Both the person with 6 Brawler levels and the bravo who likes to start bare-knuckle tavern fights are "Brawlers". Both the 5th level Witch who has made an pact with outer forces of madness and the wise woman who lives near the woods who knows about herbs and keeps bees are "witches".
If there is a cultural bias against "witches" in the campaign setting, the GM might do well to research the root causes of historical witch panics and similar and make it about those things more than about a specific class. (N.B. a lot of the reasons behind historical witch panics were "misogyny" and be *VERY* careful before making that a theme in your game; definitely check with players first.)
