I agree with his. The oath is to House Thrune not Fex. If they think Fex is against the Thrunes they're free to hang him in the square. Also need to say...
YOUR PLAYERS ASKED QUESTIONS??? WoW! Wish mine had. :P
Was curious how they handled the trap door? My players are half way thru the tree fight and im already dreading putting them against the hound and paladin with the trap door? The hound can easly draw the pcs anitpaladin in then drop the trap door and then just greater teleport back up? Leaving the tank on the ground below
My players meta'd the trapdoor cause I had a mark on the map... lol. That careful placement of "no-no we dont rush in this time. Weee... umm... stay safely at the room entrance. YES! YES! Ya know... precautions..." That said they had already fallen off those trees twice and they weren't having fun with the 'get-back-up' bit. So I let it slide.
I'd suggest you either remove it or cut the fall. Ask for a reflex save and, unless they roll something you cant save, fake something like "You grab hold of a branch and swing to a platform right below. You need 1 round to run back up". If they roll low ask for a second reflex and give them a "2 rounds to return to battle branch" etc. Cause otherwise whoever falls is out of the battle.
So your goal is to make it exciting but make sure theyre back fast and well... try not to make it to obvious what you're doing. Really thick folliage or whatever... lol
"Fex essentially took all the credit for expelling the GR." <- Thats actually good. I like when the PCs HATE, HATE, HATE the bad guy. Makes it all more satisfying when they finally go down.
Btw, a word of advice since we've finished the AP. If you can do the same with Alexerea somehow, it would be fun. The way the AP is written when you reach the final boss its the first time you ever meet her and the PCs had heard nothing of her other than 'shes the GR leader'. I missed the ball there. It wasn't personal or anything, just: Kill another boss you dont care about. Maybe you can do better and add something there :)
Like dunno: She sends people to try and kill them and they know it was her? She puts posters of their faces around with a bounty? Sends them a letter asking them to leave the dark side and come to the light? Somehow she needs a bit of connection to the PCs and there's none written in the AP.
Why would they kidnap Blissy? And a burned down house doesn't mean you cant reclaim the land and build anew. They just deprive Fex's relatives of a house and maybe 50 platinum worth of slaves :P
They reaaally should have held on to that portal. Of course they couldn't know but the final book use of it provided us with a lot of laughs, strategy planning (Calling Vispy as a buddy and ally), housing problems (We're at 350 devils now? Umm... how many floors does this building have?), friendly imps (Trying to set PC against PC with lil whispers) and a few new friends from Hell :)
Cheeto Sam, Esquire wrote:
I am running this for a mostly CE group who are in their element. The aspiring hellknight just recently cut off the hands of pious Pete and nailed them to the door frame of the house of iomedae for making profit off of his loose understanding of her life. Unfortunately for him pete got a look at who did it. At the brunch the devil impostor summoner noticed oppians feelings and decided to help him get back at loredana by proposing a tryst to make her jealous and want him. It has so far worked out ok. Loredana was purposely made aware if this plot. Our serial killer vigilante has quietly murdered 2 drunks who have yet to be found. Our pyrokineticist has not been let off leash to torch stuff but is chomping at the bit. The halfling twins were easily lulled into a false security and easily captured.
Nice one. I have goody guys. The aspiring hellknight got into a religious nationalistic debate with Oppian and wanted a duel for the glory of Cheliax. The bard after sleeping with the one inkeeper (Jana I think), was after that sleeping with Loredana to make Oppian depressed. The halflings were taken care by Cirmi cause like I said my guys are too nice and one is an escaped slave :P And the necro (dhampir, with a preference for elven blood) was exchanging recipes with Lindon.
I have to say that this is maaaybe the best part of the campaign though. The adversaries in the other books are not too fleshed out.
Sigh... so small advice.
Pentagram ritual. Remove some of those opponents. It make no sense that in 5 locations they get into 7 battles.
The aquatic guys at the marina? Remove those. They make no sense, my players said so and I agree. Also remove the plant goat thing -whatever its pet name is.
I'd just keep the Asmodean temple (condensed into 1 big battle), the Rack Headquarters and maybe the demons made of slime.
Its lovely when you prepare a session and you see that look of utter boredom in your players face.
My bad. Missunderstood your post. Sorry :)
Pre-explanation. Im not big on romance unless it serves a plot point. Occasionally PCs might tell me they're interested in X, and a couple of times per campaign I'll have an NPC say 'Hey, wanna have a drink?' My ranger has been clear she's not interested.
For fun last session after a mess at the palace I decided to throw in for chuckles my usual 'Hey, wanna have a drink after you kill this ghost dragon?'
Given that the dragon fight -which they had to retreat and prepare and then take on again- went horribly, and this was the worst session in the whole campaign, at least we had some laughs.
I think its best to let the players do it. The dragon will come back later on its own anyway, the players may see it a twice resurrected dragon as becoming a pattern from the DM rather than 'it was our choice the first time'
I like the idea. The soul has to be willing to return but since in the conclusion the dragon is very eager to return and take revenge anyway, their resurrection would work just fine.
You could make a small sidequest too where the have to leave Cheliax and travel somewhere far and wide to find another good aligned dragon. But I really would leave them get on with their plan. Let them enjoy preparing better and setting up the controlled environment.
Or... hihihi... "You only find a scroll of wish. Now what EXACTLY do you wish for?"
Then you can put in a little surprise. Not to give them a hard time or anything but wish has so much potential for fun!
My group plays online and I'm looking to get the FG modules. What will those give me? Will I need to get anything else? Has anyone used them and would like to share their experience?
The FG modules have been the deciding reason for me picking this campaign. I don't have enough time or I'm darn slow and I end up wasting my time making notes, importing maps and images to FG and stating opponents. I would like to be free of that and be able to concentrate on the story and bringing the world to life, which I think I will be able to if I get the "boring" bits out of the way.
We're still in Hells Vengeance, end of book 5, but since two new first time ever players may join in the next campaign I'm looking into it now :)
Actually this book went pretty smoothly for us.
Senara: Not much there. My party allied with Tillo so the only one they really fought was the Angel.
Bounties: This is a biiit of a waste. I got lucky and one of the PCs, who wanted to be a Hellnight, wanted to do them all to impress the Pike. Otherwise your players may wanna skip on them. Pin that component list somewhere. My guys kept forgetting what they needed to do.
Fex: 99% the moment they get that note from Fex they will drop it all and return to Longacre. My players did unanimously. You may want the confrontation with Fex in Longacre but if you don't be ready with a story and hope it sticks. "Of course I told Visperthul that you would be the sacrifices. I lied my friends, to get his cooperation. Would I EVER go against my beloved allies? So here's the plan. You found the talisman didn't you? Im trying to BIND him! But I needed a story, couldn't tell him that could I?" Some crap like that. My PCs bought it.
Battle outside the gate: My party ran through. Scouted, killed the first group and took their armor, disguised themselves and ran. They fought once in the start (for the clothes), once to pass the bridge and once the leader before entering the fort. I described like "Theres a LOT of fighting going around you" so we skipped some of that. There's too many encounters, I'd suggest you do the same.
Stairway battle: Just ask for a couple of rolls and describe it. Its on a thin stairway, your party will be in a silly blocked position with low level opponents all over. Its a really spooky scene but I think it should be mostly narrated.
Final battle: Quite hard for my PCs. I kept Visp out of it. They attacked him after and almost died. So I had him say mid battle "See how I can kill you all? Bargain or die!"
So, we've reached the Barleybridge point. My players went through it but now they are … unhappy. Not the players but the PCs. It has been building up since they reached Egorian. The nationalist village boy come Hellknight is having certain issues some of which I did not know how to address. The party is evil but not cruel. Its a mix of "I will do anything for my country" and "I will do anything for myself". So... issues...
- Competency. Is everyone in Cheliax this incompetent? From the first day we stepped into Egorian -and waited 3 hours at the line- this does not seem like the well organized country our characters believe in. (They are all residents of Longacre so they had build a certain admiration for the Glorious Cheliax in their heads)
- Nobles. We have not met a single noble that doesn't look like an incompetent, rude, idiotic waste of space. Sethic and Levisvia were squabbling over crap. Bramilla was an idiot. The elf was worse. Who rules this country? How is it ruled if these guys are in charge?
- Levisvia. If the Queen needs a sacrifice is she unable to inspire a single person to give their life for our glorious nation? Our PCs would if asked. Dragging unwilling people to be sacrificed seems like the worst way to do it.
- Barleybridge. Why couldn't the Queen ask 100 people to die for their country or even promise them hefty compensations for their family? (Note here that they never found out about the Caiden Cailean worshippers in the village). Are we murdering our own now? Isn't murder illegal? Isn't Cheliax a lawful country? Why are the authorities illegally murdering people?
- Queen. We don't like the Queen (Here I probably played her wrong / understood wrong.) She doesn't seem like she cares about her subjects. She expresses no feelings over the sacrifices, especially Barleybridge. She shows no remorse. She looks like a petulant kid not a capable individual. Maybe we should attack the Queen -for the glory of Cheliax- even if we die trying. (I have NO IDEA what to do if that's their endgame)
-Cheliax in general. What are the armies of Cheliax doing? Why does it seem that we're the ones handling everything? Why did we have to go to Barleybridge and murder peasants? Why couldn't Dotari or someone else do this crap job? Why does it seem that everyone is sitting on their ---? (Again here I believe I failed)
Slim Jim wrote:
How the poop does an 8th-level rogue only have an AC of 18 when he has Dodge and Dex is his highest stat? (Is he still in nonmagical leather? Yes) Why does he have Weapon Finesse on his feat list? (Is he unaware of Unchained Rogue?Yes)
I laughed at the last paragraph. The player is female and the campaign in Hell's Vengeance. Exited to play evil but if you ask me edging upwards all the time. The party isn't murderhobos or something but the particular player is... confusing evil with neutral.
Thank you. I didn't mention this but there's enough damage going around with a 2 handed fighter, a ranger, a two weapon rogue. Control is much better. Will have a small test run with the player out of game to see how this works for them :D
@Weables Thank you VERY MUCH! Glad you were bored! This looks great! Send it to the player and the like it :) They were very, very impressed with the AC 27, kinda tired of dying and reincarnating into different forms :P
I may have more questions when we look at it in detail later but why the two short swords?
@Avr Yes, they can get a second weapon. They are at Egorian, haven't spend any money so they have about 50000 gold sitting there unused. Thank you! I'll check it out in combo with what Weables send.
Thanks! It seems good. The story of the character is that they started out as a street rat and then joined an assassins guild (this happened in the campaign) so Slayer -from what I'm seeing- won't change the characters story, just the abilities. Studied target seems to provide a consistent bonus to attacks, which is nice, and as you said the d10 will help though I think they will need to pump up their constitution a bit anyway. The skill points are good too, so they player can maintain their role as the party's scout.
Death attack hasn't worked for the player a single time by the way. Just once when the party snuck up to a low level guard and the assassin took him out. But that was out of battle.
If it's not too much fuss to provide a build, I'd appreciate it.
Soooo... my rogue turned assassin at lvl 8. They weren't doing too well till then and now they're doing worse. Basically, they might as well sit out the battle. What the player has been doing is studying the target for 3 rounds after which (a) the others have already killed said target or (b) the attack fails or the target saves. And that's about how every battle has been going for them. Oh, and they die a lot which doesn't help. They've been very useful in scouting and disarming and stuff but still... So I told the player they may respec (they can't change their stats or the levels they've taken in each profession but everything else can change). I'm unfamiliar with how an assassin is build or played, have never had one in any group I played with. So here's what they have:
Rogue 8 / Assassin 5
STR: 16 (+2 item), DEX: 20, CON: 8, INT: 17 (+6 item), WIS: 10, CHA: 14
Death from Above, Dodge, Fast Getaway, Fiendish, Hellcat Stealth, Iron Will, Ledge Walker, Mobility, Shadow Duplicates, Skill Focus, Weapon Finesse
Equipment: Leather armor, Dagger
Any advice on what they should have (feats, equipment, anything)? Any advice on how they should play in battle?
Glad you liked it! She's amazing! Was watching it earlier and thought I'd share.
Thanks for the tips :) Good to know that other people also continue playing if someone's missing. I've been feeling kinda guilty about this :S
I generally reserve PC death for "I will ask you for the 10th time... Are you sure you wanna try seduction on the Balor?" So practically never.
Thanks. I like the bit "only a player can get their character killed". Something I'll keep in mind.
Edit. Just a note. I understand that my players have valid reasons for being unable to attend. But I still want the game to move forward...
Basically I have 3 players. Used to play solo with my husband every weekend then 2 more people joined in. Since then I've had a 2 months pause because of military duty of Player1. That was ok. Last week Player2 had a relative visiting for a week. We didn't play. This week Player2 has family function and must leave early. Next week Player2 has wedding and Player1 is now taking a summer job and isn't sure if and when they will make it. Husband is getting fed up.
I'm thinking of running the campaign each week same time with whoever shows up, run any missing players as NPCs (silent going along) and posting a summary after each game for anyone missing to catch up. What do you think? How do you handle this?
No but one of my players keeps a session by session log. It is the story from his characters point of view but he mostly keeps to the facts no fluff. We're at book two but we play weekly and he updates. I can ask him to post it somewhere if you're interested.
My own logs are from an npc bard's perspective who follows the group to write their epic. And the epic and the AP have certain "differences" :)
Just thought I'd post this as a closing to the worst campaign I have ever played with the worst DM I have ever played with.
Campaign fell out. Which was a good thing.
The GM had foisted a half-orc (other system / world so changing the names) kid on my paladin. The half-orc player wasn't interested. There's prejudice, will you throw a five year old out? So to go along -even though that wasn't what I wanted- I decided my goodie guy takes the kid up as his brother. My paladin is a 19 year old only child that I have made a point through the campaign always wanted a sibling. He sends the kid to stay at his Order, the other members love the kid, my paladin's parent's -both paladins- 'adopt' him. I have till this point made a lot of concessions. Working with shady characters -just protesting and going along- cause I don't wanna play the plot ruining idiot. "Sure let's break into the church vault, of the church my Order is working with, to find evidence of the church's wrongdoings on the say-so of anarchists that are hunted by the authorities. If the church is evil that has to be the only way to find out." Me deskbanging type concessions. Also note I had passed my character concept by the GM when I joined to make sure it fit.
So we're wrapping up -just to have an ending.
GM says "Bad guy isn't really bad, he's also unbeatable, kid is potentially dangerous, please turn it in to be killed."
Other fun bits.
- He had about 10 plot lines running. We didn't understand any.
And thats why I'm not exactly upset the campaign ended.
Thanks for the advice!
I pre-rolled perceptions for the next session and I'll use your advice on social skills too.
As for the necro, I'll have a few shopkeepers turn him out and give him a penalty on diplomacy rolls and a bonus on intimidation to balance things out. If he wants to play the diplomat he'll have to work for it. I'm one of those DMs who is too worried about upsetting their players :(
Hello! So after last session my fighter complained I ask for too many skill checks and I think he was actually right. I was wondering how others handle the above situations:
1. Perception. The party walks into a room there is a trap, object, something that requires a check to be noticed.
a. Do you roll behind the screen for the party and tell the person that got the check 'Your rogue notices X'?
2. Sense motive. This is where its gone BAD for me. Cause when I ask for a sense motive check and they fail, the wizard goes and preps his interrogation spell. Yes, its metagaming on his part but how could I handle it better?
a. Ask for a roll in EVERY dialog?
3. Diplomacy / Intimidation / Bluff.
Problem 1. I have come across a specific player -that might join our game- that rolls say the warrior with 10 int and 8 wis, with 0 points on social skills and then roleplays a charismatic tactical genius. So I've been doing "Let's roleplay this but you also have to roll a check".
Problem 2. How many rolls should I allow in a social situation? 1 per player? 1 per type? Should I up the DC if the first attempt fails? What I had last session was Fighter tries intimidation and fails, Rogue tries intimidation and fails, Fighter tried bluff, Mage tries diplomacy... well, at some point they'll get it.
a. Ask for a roll in every dialog?
Edit: To say nothing of my undead master who is playing a 'charismatic talker' with a shambling skeleton at his back. How do I even handle that? He doesn't have the undead with him all the time but still... shouldn't it affect this 'charismatic roleplay' and rolls?
Hahaha! Well, Ill inform him. We're playing in Cheliax so for 50-100 gold and a trip to the local slave market, he's got his elf or halfling maiden supply.
Thank you! I am the DM actually. My undead master wants to make his skeleton companion look like an elf maiden or something of the sort so they pass unnoticed in public. From what I gather the answer is 'no' which is the way I was leaning. It seems like a real stretch.
Just popping to say the first session went very nicely. Quite impressed with my group! They killed the tanner and his dogs, and the old couple that came in right after cause they saw their faces. The fighter didn't buy too much into "collecting taxes at midnight" so he was a bit negative when they got called a second time but he loved the second job with the Cheliax sashes, and hopped right back in. At the gathering they just challenged the Knight. They spoke up saying she had no proof that the tanner was killed by agents of the regime and the necro started a discussion on the authenticity of the mask. The rest of the session went on without any killing either. They used non lethal on the deputies and threw them into a jail cell after accusing them of assault and treason.
Warped Savant wrote:
I had set it to 10 gold per month :)
Thank you! That was helpful!
A few more questions. Don't wanna start a new thread. This is the first time ever Im DMing for people I dont know so well so...
1. Im thinking of “point-buy” method. Which one though should I tell them? I usually go with the High Fantasy one. Is it appropriate here?
Just finished and since I'm not much of a reviewer I'll just use your review if you dont mind :)
My players skipped the ball but still much fun!
A Song of Silver: The real gem of this campaign. The proverbial s*** hits the proverbial fan and it's brutal. It feels that the PCs have to fight for it all and it's far from being obvious how the final showdown will unfold. A massive battle against Barzillai and, later, the final battle in the nave of the Temple were the most tensed moments of the campaign. When your players decide to bypass encounters so they can preserve resources for the finale, you know things are just as tense as they should!
The Temple of Asmodeus was the best part indeed. My party also bypassed some encounters but they loved it. It was probably the high point of the campaign.
The Kintargo Contract: Getting to play through the aftermath of the rebellion and secure the future of Kintargo was refreshing. The Kintargo Contract is a piece of genius and getting the players to realize how they can use it to their benefit is priceless. The rest of the book feels more like a distraction and filler. I think it requires a bit more work than I put in to avoid giving the impression that every part of the duchy of Ravounel wants the PCs to do a quest before signing up on their new rulership of the region. I found it hard to care much about Mangvhune.
Spot on on this. Loved Odexide but after that I got told "Its slumping. It just feels like we got nothing really important to do."
Breaking the Bones of Hell: Surprisingly, the best part of this book is the diplomatic meeting. The part in Hell is fine and nicely builds up to the final encounter but, since this one was over in a round, it doesn't quite feel like the finale it might have been. In fact, it feels that the whole part in Hell is about as or more dangerous than Barzillai. Maybe a lack of balance, or simply luck. But it's a nice close to the full campaign and it certainly feels scary going to Hell, as it should. Discovering more about Barzillai's psyche only made the PCs hate him more.
Agree there too. Diplomatic meeting was great. Barzillai went down in 3 rounds for us. In the first round my party wasn't even hitting him just trash talk. A bit too easy. Didnt use the mythic cause they'd weakened him but still, the whole tower was "too easy" the party said