All in the title. Quick question. =)
Nope.
Nope.
Yay! And thank you!
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If the cleric has an evil aura, than yes.
If the cleric has an evil aura, than yes.
They do. But smite isn't about the aura is it? I mean you can change a creatures aura... I think there's a spell.
If the cleric has an evil aura, than yes.
I'd rule the same as you, but it could be argued either way. The Cleric's Aura class feature just says the Cleric radiates an aura the same alignment as her god, but the question is whether the Paladin's Smite Evil looks at the actual alignment or if it checks the aura.
EDIT:
They do. But smite isn't about the aura is it? I mean you can change a creatures aura... I think there's a spell.
Case in point of how it could be argued the other way.
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Nah, the paladin gets pranked. An evil aura has nothing to do with a smite—it's just something to make the detect evil confusing. According to the rules, you smite someone's actual alignment, not their detected alignment. Period. Otherwise, consider this: Undetectable Alignment would make you immune to smiting.
Auras are specific to the detect alignment spells. They have no other significant role in Pathfinder.
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No it doesn't work, and as Kobold Cleaver says, the paladin gets screwed.
This is why I ruled that Clerics (and other classes with auras) only radiate an aura based on the alignment shared between deity and character.
A LG cleric aura of a LG deity would show up under Detect Good Or Detect Law.
A LN cleric aura of a LG deity would only show up under Detect Law.
Otherwise all characters detect as per the detect spells as normal (i.e. you start showing up at 5 HD based on your actual alignment).
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I kinda like it—it adds a subtle gray that paladins need to account for. Because how do you handle a neutral cleric of an enemy god?
I kinda like it—it adds a subtle gray that paladins need to account for. Because how do you handle a neutral cleric of an enemy god?
I really love it! Thanks for the responses everyone!
I like this, a gray area that isn't just bait for a fall trap.
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What if the neutral cleric is a baby?! What now, holy man? *Cackles atop throne of D&D books like Pierce Hawthorne*
What if the cleric had just performed an evil act, like raising dead or killing babies, does the smite still fizzle?
If doing so turned her evil, the smite works. If she is still neutral, it does not.
Bear in mind that Detect Evil also returns evil if the owner of the aura has actively evil intent, even if they are otherwise as Neutral Good as the day is long. Smite would be a no go against them, so its not as if neutral clerics of an evil god are an exceptional problem. Clerics even tip off the Paladin by having a stupidly powerful aura that virtually has to come off a cleric/outsider/undead.
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Creatures with actively evil intents count as evil creatures for the purpose of this spell.
They don't auto-detect, note—they're just treated as though evil. Then you'd look at the hit dice and see if it's detectable.
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So does this mean, that in the world of Pathfinder, that "is murdering the goblin children evil?" is an empirically testable hypothesis?
Of course, the rogue needs to be sincere in his attempt. Which means the paladin might have some trouble dissuading him.
Then you run into an interesting question: If the paladin is initially for or against it, and the verdict goes against her, does it mean she's walking a fine line?
On the other hand, last time I checked, creatures that have an [{Insert alignment here}] subtype are affected as if their alignment matches that subtype, no matter what their alignment actually is. Intuitively, I would have thought that an aura would work the same way.
Really? Where's that rule located?
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Really? Where's that rule located?
THe Beastiary, under the description of the appropriate subtype.
Evil Subtype: This subtype is usually applied to outsiders native to the evil-aligned outer planes. Evil outsiders are also called fiends. Most creatures that have this subtype also have evil alignments; however, if their alignments change, they still retain the subtype. Any effect that depends on alignment affects a creature with this subtype as if the creature has an evil alignment, no matter what its alignment actually is. The creature also suffers effects according to its actual alignment. A creature with the evil subtype overcomes damage reduction as if its natural weapons and any weapons it wields are evil-aligned (see Damage Reduction).
So your typical fully redeemed Lawful Good succubus would detect as, and be affected as, a lawful, chaotic, good, and evil creature all at once.
Yeah, so that's something unique to the subtype, not a precedent for aura smiting.
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Smite evil is:
Once per day, a paladin can call out to the powers of good to aid her in her struggle against evil. As a swift action, the paladin chooses one target within sight to smite. If this target is evil, the paladin adds her Cha bonus (if any) to her attack rolls and adds her paladin level to all damage rolls made against the target of her smite. If the target of smite evil is an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature, the bonus to damage on the first successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per level the paladin possesses. Regardless of the target, smite evil attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess.
In addition, while smite evil is in effect, the paladin gains a deflection bonus equal to her Charisma modifier (if any) to her AC against attacks made by the target of the smite. If the paladin targets a creature that is not evil, the smite is wasted with no effect.
The smite evil effect remains until the target of the smite is dead or the next time the paladin rests and regains her uses of this ability. At 4th level, and at every three levels thereafter, the paladin may smite evil one additional time per day, as indicated on Table: Paladin, to a maximum of seven times per day at 19th level.
It says if the Target is evil not if the target has an evil aura. I would say that smite wouldn't work in this circumstance.
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So does this mean, that in the world of Pathfinder, that "is murdering the goblin children evil?" is an empirically testable hypothesis?
Absolutely.
Remember, on Golarion, evil is a substance, not a matter of philosophy. Alignment issues can all be settled with the equivalent of a drug test.
Down to "evil thoughts" being the "poppyseed muffin" of testing regimes.
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+1 to the not-evil cleric of a evil deity detecting as evil, as he has an evil aura. +1 to the not-evil cleric not suffering effects of smite, as smite triggers on actual alignment, unlike Detect Evil. +1 to the possibility of a Paladin "detecting" evil, only to find out smite doesn't do anything. The converse is also true.. an evil character under effect of misdirection won't detect as evil, but smite will still work.
By extension, someone that is not-evil but under effect of Infernal Healing is also immune to smite for all the same reasons.
an evil person under a neutral god wouldn't ping as evil.
an evil person under a neutral god wouldn't ping as evil.
But could still be smote if the paladin chose to smite and leave the poor bastard smitten.
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So your typical fully redeemed Lawful Good succubus would detect as, and be affected as, a lawful, chaotic, good, and evil creature all at once.
Did you just say "typical fully redeemed LG Succubus"?
Lady-J, as the paladin likely doesn't know the succubus is good, wouldn't he get a pass for accidental smiling?
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No, smiling is strictly forbidden by Paladin Code Rule #5: No fun. Fun is sin.
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A Paladins first goal should always be redemption, followed closely by protection. It should never be extermination.
On the other hand, someone willingly gave their lives over to an evil god and is furthering their cause. Even if they are "just the front man" or whatever their excuse is they are enabling a great deal of evil and the world is better off without them.
{. . .}
"smite first ask questions later" tends not to be a valid excuse, even if the situation dictates its likely. It sets a bad example for others who might want to be redeemed. They will think "why should I bother trying to become good if all my allies will turn on me and Paladins will still smite me on sight"
{. . .}
Actually, for quite a while I've been considering the idea that one of the reasons for the great rarity of redeemed Fiends is that the forces of Good, for all their talk of redemption, actually do a really bad job of it . . . .
As written, no. But, I would rule that yes it would, though at half efficacy. This does not apply to an LN cleric of an LN god. Only an LN cleric of a LE god.
That goes double for a neutral person "with evil friends".
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Smite evil is:
Once per day, a paladin can call out to the powers of good to aid her in her struggle against evil. As a swift action, the paladin chooses one target within sight to smite. If this target is evil, the paladin adds her Cha bonus (if any) to her attack rolls and adds her paladin level to all damage rolls made against the target of her smite. If the target of smite evil is an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature, the bonus to damage on the first successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per level the paladin possesses. Regardless of the target, smite evil attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess.
In addition, while smite evil is in effect, the paladin gains a deflection bonus equal to her Charisma modifier (if any) to her AC against attacks made by the target of the smite. If the paladin targets a creature that is not evil, the smite is wasted with no effect.
The smite evil effect remains until the target of the smite is dead or the next time the paladin rests and regains her uses of this ability. At 4th level, and at every three levels thereafter, the paladin may smite evil one additional time per day, as indicated on Table: Paladin, to a maximum of seven times per day at 19th level.
It says if the Target is evil not if the target has an evil aura. I would say that smite wouldn't work in this circumstance.
Holy Crap!!!! you have Morgan Freeman as an avatar!!!!!
I just want to take the time to point out that this isnt necessarily true. It depends on how you define "evil outsider" in the oaths text. Its true that she would be an outsider with the type evil, but she is not an outsider who is evil. While the phrase "evil outsider" usually refers to the former, in this case I think we can assume it means the latter due to the contradictions in goals. Even though Oath Paladins dont have the same oath as standard paladins, they are still Lawful Good, and killing someone based on racism certainly isnt.The oath against undead/abberations sadly isnt so redeemable.
I'm not so sure saying "It's a fiend, it is evil must be killed!" actually counts as racism...
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Thats neutral thinking at best. "the world is better off without them" is a very evil line of thought.
No. It isn't. It's a very violent line of thought. It's a very extreme line of thought. But if you haven't noticed paladins are both extreme and violent.
And good.
Paladin abilities are all about finding things that the world would be better off without and then killing them with large pointy objects. In a world that needs paladins this is a good thing because that world is so horrific that it IS markedly improved by people doing this.
The chaotic neutral follower of lamasthu is going to leash some unholy spawn of something and something upon the populace. The file clerk of asmodeuous is freeing up resources to run an oppressive empire. They are helping to advance an evil cause. If a paladin chooses to stay their blade and attempt the Unlikely process of conversion that's a legitimate way to be a paladin... but so is winding back up for that second hit.
So a paladin should kill every follower of Asmodeus?