Shit even I would not be crazy enough to pick this particular PbP up. The Wyrm did a LOT of work on this one. :-( Hopefully he comes back soon, this one seemed pretty interesting the few times that I lurked.
(Hi Shadow!)
Really, though. If he were responding, it would be a huge relief, as then we could have a benchmark of some sort, or (if RL has simply gotten too crazy) he could pass on his campaign plans/notes to a new GM.
Yeah, I'll hold out hope he returns. Sometimes life kicks you in the face and you don't have the extra 5 minutes to post on paizo.com
Hey all, I'm back from vacation, though I see I haven't missed out much. Will be continuing to check the thread preiodically.
Welcome back!
Yeah we are pretty much chilling around and waiting for GM to pop back in (hopefully!) : )
Not really expecting much at all at this point.
Sigh....
I always get really excited whenever I see a 'new post' for this campaign listed in my tab....
This is most likely dead so let's stop giving it CPR. It takes a month of zero posts for this to go inactive on its own. So let's wait. If the DM comes back, hurrah, if not, at least it isn't cluttering the campaign thread.
I thought it only counted for gameplay posts?
In any case, it is sad. I was enjoying this game.
Well, I suppose that's it. It was nice playing with you all.
Wyrm, if you ever end up reading this, I'm happy to jump pack into the game if you ever want to get it going again.
So every time I even briefly scan this (or hell, have to run down the character list for the 'post as'), I get the urge to resume this game. My RL has ... well, to be honest, I really only do three things these days due to RL happenings -- sleep, work, and play online.
So. If you're interested in kicking this back into gear, sing out; we hit 6 of you, and I'll do it, but as always, the more the merrier.
Oh, so yes. I’d be quite happy to jump back in. This was my first PBP, and it’s been intriguing me ever since it ended how it would go. Of course, I made more than a few cringey new player mistakes, but hopefully I can do better going forward.
That said, with the campaign long-since inactive, it was only luck that I even saw this, so there may be people interested in continuing that just don’t get notified.
Thanks for the pointer. I'll send PMs tomorrow night.
Yes, I'm game to rejoin to as well, with the caveat that if you need to bugger off for life for a time--which happens, nothing you can do about that--you have the courtesy to inform us of such instead of just disappearing again. I don't mind a hiatus, but you had us jump through a lot of hoops to get in, and wondering if that was all to amuse a troll left a sour taste behind.
Welcome back GM. Count me in.
I would like to resume as well.
I would also like to note that I would play even if only 4 people showed up, though I do understand the enjoyment of running 6 people.
Yes, I'm game to rejoin to as well, with the caveat that if you need to bugger off for life for a time--which happens, nothing you can do about that--you have the courtesy to inform us of such instead of just disappearing again. I don't mind a hiatus, but you had us jump through a lot of hoops to get in, and wondering if that was all to amuse a troll left a sour taste behind.
Sounds like a deal to me.
I'm game.
For contact purposes, Ash.., DeviousDevious, and Kain Gallant apparently don't check their PMs here often (and said so in their belated replies to my apology); five others (Jereru, Lessah, Mordred of Fairy, Rostam, and Zayne Iwatani) haven't answered at all. (This is informational, not accusational; I have NO room to talk. :P )
IIRC, most of them are moderately active; if you're in games with any of them, you might point them here. (I always feel weird going into a conversational thread and saying, "hey X, check your PM!!")
I'm up for this, it was a fun before it stopped, so happy to resume.
I can drop Mordred a notice, he's running a campaign I'm in. But I think it unlikely he'll be back, as he and the missus just added a fresh sprog to the family unit. Sprogs apparently require lots and lots of time when they're fresh, lol.
Well good morning to you too :-P
It is very very tempting to jump right back in but I think I should think about it. I'll be back in a day or so.
Well. Excellent. With Amavin, we've six; we'll bring in more as they say yea or nay.
There is to be one revision, however: the Feat Tax thing. (I describe it as the Feat Tax Refund - FTR.) Having read this, having reviewed this, and now having been playing with this, I will be applying this to the game, at the very least to the PCs and prime NPCs (including major bad guys, but not including grunts and the like).
If you have a class that grants one of the feats (I think Rogue normally grants Weapon Finesse) listed that you now get for free, speak to me about what you get instead; it will always be something very similar. Rogue, for example, gains Deft Maneuvers (a FTR compilation Feat of the dex-based Improved [Combat Maneuver] feats); a class that gained Improved Bull Rush would instead gain Powerful Maneuvers or, if that was already gained, something else to do with Bull Rush.
Please apply to your characters, double-check them, ask any questions you need to ask, and sing out when you're ready to rumble.
Just a query GM
What is your plan for the Feat Tax that have mythic options as well?
Ie, if there is no Weapon Finesse, does that mean that there is no Mythic Weapon Finesse? What about Mythic Dirty Trick which has no equivalent under the feat tax rule.
I received the PM less than 24 hours ago.
Please at least allow that much time for a response before writing me off as 'no answer' (or asking people to drop us notes - which they did :) )
I understand you are excited, but you know, a.: time zones and b.: some people like to take a moment to pause and consider before making a decision, rather than rush things for sake of an immediate answer - one of the advantages pbp offers, usually.
Since that statement was related to your your original explanatory PM from October: I had not answered to it as it was purely informative(and multi-recipient) in nature and I felt there was nothing really to reply to, without either making it seem less of a deal than it was(and I was pissed off about being ghosted after jumping through some hoops to conform to what was needed to get in), or adding blame after an apology given(you did write and said you are sorry, why give you more trouble about it).
So I opted to simply take that PM as-is and not start a conversation, then.
Here, now? I'm interested. As Theodric pointed out, I have a newborn at home. My post rates will be slightly shifty for the close future, before I return to work and things 'normalize'.
So yeah, when I create characters, when I join a game, I do so to see things through. I would rejoin this as well. As said, my schedule in the next couple weeks will need a certain amount of...flexibility - but that does not in my opinion clash with an expression of interest in a game that should run over years.
For contact purposes, Ash.., DeviousDevious, and Kain Gallant apparently don't check their PMs here often (and said so in their belated replies to my apology); five others (Jereru, Lessah, Mordred of Fairy, Rostam, and Zayne Iwatani) haven't answered at all. (This is informational, not accusational; I have NO room to talk. :P )
IIRC, most of them are moderately active; if you're in games with any of them, you might point them here. (I always feel weird going into a conversational thread and saying, "hey X, check your PM!!")
Acaciano is my character and I chimed in above; didn't think I'd need to answer with both :P
Also, full disclosure: I was pretty mad that you disappeared sans explanation after all the work everyone had put in, hence the delay in responding to your PM. In general, I try to wait and send a polite response as opposed to a quick , rude reply, and I'm glad I did.All that said, I've moved past it, and I'm happy to see you back, TWO. I'll get started rebuilding my characters with Feat Tax rules (did you know they've since put out an updated version?) and getting back into the swing.
Is your intent to pick back up in the middle of that combat at dinner, or to handle it some other way?
Cheers, and welcome back.
-Dev
Okay, so if I'm reading this Feat Tax thing properly, I don't get any rebates from classes for Theodric or Darvan. But I do get to apply Weapon Focus to a group of weapons--heavy blades for Theodric, monk weapons for Darvan--and I might get rebates for Weapon Finesse and Power Attack taken via other feat choices (the former now being a weapon trait and the latter being a combat option)?
If nothing else though, I will see the builds for both loosen up just a bit, more so for Theodric than Darvan, with some feats they plan to take being consolidated.
Hmm okay I think I'm game. But there are a few things first ...
1) I have joined up with another Kingmaker game to fill that nation-building hole in my soul.
Don't think that will be a problem really but ...
2) I sorta threw Velar and Skie into a blender and picked out the best bits to make a character for that game.
Soooo... I'd like a little bit of time to at least rework/replace Skie, since that was the personality I stole and it feels odd to double up on that (too much).
And completely unrelated
3) I do enjoy the Feat Taxes fix/rework. The original thoughts more then their reworked document I think, the later feels a bit off somehow.
(And bloody hell why couldn't they just glue together the Arcane Armour training feats? Blarg! :P)
For a while after reading that PM I had no idea who you were seeing as the last communication was 6 months ago. I forget what I have for breakfast after a few hours. I think most of what I wish to say has been stated so I will say nothing more than...Holy Shit It's Back!?
Whew, I almost re-purposed William a while ago. Happy I didn't, I'd love to start this up again. I think I've become a better writer since we stopped and it'll be fun to compare and contrast.
Does that mean you're both in? ;)
What is your plan for the Feat Tax that have mythic options as well?
Ie, if there is no Weapon Finesse, does that mean that there is no Mythic Weapon Finesse? What about Mythic Dirty Trick which has no equivalent under the feat tax rule.
If there is a Mythic version of something that's been generalized (like Weapon Finesse) or turned into a standard combat option (like Power Attack), then everyone will have access to the Mythic version by spending 1 point of Mythic Power as a swift action. This will enable you to use the Mythic version of the ability for your Mythic tier in rounds.
Furthermore, if in the Mythic Feat there is a use of Mythic Power (such as Power Attack's use of Mythic Power which allows you to ignore the penalties to your melee attack and combat maneuver rolls for 1 minute), you may combine the actions into the greater of the two (Free and Swift becomes Swift, swift and standard becomes standard, etc.), spending 2 MP to gain the advantages for the above time of 1 round/mythic tier or as the mythic feat reads, whichever is shorter.
In regards to the Improved Maneuvers (such as Improved Dirty Trick), these are subsumed into the Deft Maneuvers and Powerful Maneuvers feats. Mythic Deft Maneuvers, Mythic Powerful Maneuvers and Mythic Unarmed Combatant will be things, essentially combining those seperate selections into their more powerful versions.
Acaciano is my character and I chimed in above; didn't think I'd need to answer with both :P
D'oh!! What I get for not knowing everyone's name AND character name. Sorry.
Also, full disclosure: I was pretty mad that you disappeared sans explanation after all the work everyone had put in, hence the delay in responding to your PM. In general, I try to wait and send a polite response as opposed to a quick , rude reply, and I'm glad I did.
Completely understood. Thanks for ... well, not being a d!ck. :P :)
All that said, I've moved past it, and I'm happy to see you back, TWO. I'll get started rebuilding my characters with Feat Tax rules (did you know they've since put out an updated version?) and getting back into the swing.
From what I can tell, the updated version is ... pretty much the same thing, with a few refinements here and there. That said, I DO use the 'World is Square' mod for Hero Lab, which I believe uses the updated version, so that's the version we'll be using. If/when push comes to shove, I can offer everyone a revised version of their characters (once I get them all in again).
Okay, so if I'm reading this Feat Tax thing properly, I don't get any rebates from classes for Theodric or Darvan. But I do get to apply Weapon Focus to a group of weapons--heavy blades for Theodric, monk weapons for Darvan--and I might get rebates for Weapon Finesse and Power Attack taken via other feat choices (the former now being a weapon trait and the latter being a combat option)?
If nothing else though, I will see the builds for both loosen up just a bit, more so for Theodric than Darvan, with some feats they plan to take being consolidated.
If you had taken Weapon Finesse, Power Attack, or other such feats, then yes, you get rebates. :D And yeah, this is definitely an assist for anyone who wants to add a little spice to their characters by using combat maneuvers, and allows the 'non-hitters' to work defensively OR offensively without needing to spend multiple feats on the task, or totally handicap themselves.
1) I have joined up with another Kingmaker game to fill that nation-building hole in my soul.
2) I sorta threw Velar and Skie into a blender and picked out the best bits to make a character for that game.
Soooo... I'd like a little bit of time to at least rework/replace Skie, since that was the personality I stole and it feels odd to double up on that (too much).
Not a problem - so long as the majority of the technicals are the same, I'm good with you tweaking the personality/name.
3) I do enjoy the Feat Taxes fix/rework. The original thoughts more then their reworked document I think, the later feels a bit off somehow.
(And bloody hell why couldn't they just glue together the Arcane Armour training feats? Blarg! :P)
They didn't muck around with armor feats at all, considering there are only a relative handful of them anyhow. I'd say sorry, but I'm really not. ;)
Is your intent to pick back up in the middle of that combat at dinner, or to handle it some other way?
A little of both. I intend on picking up there, but I do want to rampage a bit more swiftly, try and focus a little less on trying to micromanage every detail and monster - in short, to run combat better.
----------------------------------------------------
That said, I AM absolutely interested in finding someone, either amongst you or otherwise, who is willing/able to help out when it comes to combat - a Combat Sub-GM, as it were. I'll provide the threats, stats, and general guidance/intent; I'd just like some help in keeping combat moving. Two CSGMs would be even better, especially as they'd be able to whack at each other. ;) And since the group is fragmenting into smaller parties (and will continue to do so to one extent or another), in general they'd be able to assist me with events they themselves aren't in.
It might be a pipe dream, but it's MY pipe dream, dammit. ;)
Well then, I'll juggle their feats a bit to get compliant and start trying to relocate all of the game stuff I had set aside relating to blind-fighting.
Hmm I'm going to have to remake Ishana's class (keeping personality, backstory etc) due to the new system. Under the new feat tax replacement for weapon finesse, you cannot actually finesse a whip which really hurts. Even if that gets hand waved, it's really painful for her to spend a swift action + 1MP at the start of every encounter just to deal damage - double so for a Warpriest which is swift action gated already.
Like, the feat tax system is great in my book, but it just unfortunately wrecks Ishana's ultra niche build.
Amavin is fine though.
I’d be willing to help sub-GM (GM THREE?) for you. It’d be good practice for me should I ever GM, and give me something to think about when I’m bored in class.
Ironically, I’m in a bit of an inverse position to some people- I’m way better in terms of playing the game and strategizing, but I no longer have hours and hours of time to do nothing but compose RP posts.
That said, GM, would you mind if I redid the Auram Chain to be a group of arcane spellcasters? It just seems to fit so much better than a monastery (seriously, I have no idea what I was thinking)
Hi to everyone.
GM, I'm glad that you're back. I have to say no to continuing the game, though, for multiple circumstances. I still wish you all good luck with this endeavour, and I thank you for the time and effort you've all put into it.
Hmm I'm going to have to remake Ishana's class (keeping personality, backstory etc) due to the new system. Under the new feat tax replacement for weapon finesse, you cannot actually finesse a whip which really hurts. Even if that gets hand waved, it's really painful for her to spend a swift action + 1MP at the start of every encounter just to deal damage - double so for a Warpriest which is swift action gated already.
Like, the feat tax system is great in my book, but it just unfortunately wrecks Ishana's ultra niche build.
Amavin is fine though.
Wait, what?? How does 'get everything for free' ruin her?? If it's a matter of everyone having access to the feat at the expense of 1 MP, but it's something you're counting on her having, then yes, she can still take it as a Mythic Feat (once she reaches Mythic). But having just built Ishana in HeroLab with the Feat Tax Refund/World is Square (WiS) rules active, since you get Weapon Finesse for free and everything else stacks properly, Ishana is perfectly fine, doing 1d8+4 lethal damage with her whip.
Please explain before going in and remaking Ishana, because I seriously don't see the issue you seem to be seeing.
Hi to everyone.
GM, I'm glad that you're back. I have to say no to continuing the game, though, for multiple circumstances. I still wish you all good luck with this endeavour, and I thank you for the time and effort you've all put into it.
Thanks for dropping in and letting me know. Good luck, and have fun out there.
I’d be willing to help sub-GM (GM THREE?) for you. It’d be good practice for me should I ever GM, and give me something to think about when I’m bored in class.
Ironically, I’m in a bit of an inverse position to some people- I’m way better in terms of playing the game and strategizing, but I no longer have hours and hours of time to do nothing but compose RP posts.
We'll play around with this combat, then, see how well thoughts mesh, that sort of thing.
That said, GM, would you mind if I redid the Auram Chain to be a group of arcane spellcasters? It just seems to fit so much better than a monastery (seriously, I have no idea what I was thinking)
I would very greatly mind. Your background included Darivan and Sylvia doing the 'wandering knight errant' gig, including coming upon a group from whom you could learn a certain level of self-control and internal peace, something both of them are in desperate need of acquiring. I named them the Auram Chain, and more clearly defined their existance. Their presence establishes Darivan and Sylvia as being more than power-hungry magocrats, concerned with nothing but the next spell, the next technique, the next power styling; it anchors them in the real world, gives them real people to be concerned with, to worry over, to be concerned about disappointing.
In short, the 'monk villagers' Auram Chain gives them humanity, while a 'group of arcane spellcasters' would place them dangerously close to losing that humanity. Request denied.
You are welcome to clarify a few things then, because maybe I'm missing something you might be aware of that I'm not.
Issue #1 is that is that the text renames light weapons, to finesse weapons. Thats all I have to go with, from the link you gave us. Therefore, the whip, which is not a light weapon, cannot be finessed, therefore I have to use STR instead of DEX to calculate attack rolls. If Whip is houseruled to be finnessable, then her attack rolls are pretty fine.
Mythic Weapon Finesse is also really bad, *if* she has to spend a swift action for 1 round per tier to get dex to damage - at least for the Warpriest when you want to be using Fervor, or other swift action abilities like Quickened Blessing or even Fleet Charge. If Ishana can freely pick up Mythic Weapon Finesse at full value via a Mythic feat, or if she can get Slashing Grace (both options are unclear if she can) then her damage is fine.
@Whip + finesse - they added a new quality called "finesseable" or something to previous count as light weapons, like the rapier or presumably the whip, that still lets them use dex to hit. So hopefully that wouldn't be a problem :-)
@2 - I was considering a complete scrap and redo, since I usually find that the easiest (for me), but I could settle for minor tweaks if we should strive to keep continuity.
Yeah I spotted rapier being called out, but nothing else, and so far been unable to find an approved list for what weapons they gave the finesseable quality to.
Amavin:
Lessah is correct -- already defined as a 'finesse' weapon as per its original description (like other weapons such as the rapier), the whip is still considered a finesse weapon. In the WiS rules, nothing is taken away, only made easier or free; if it used to be able to be used with Weapon Finesse, it still can be. Those who have Aldori Dueling Sword proficiencies are in the same boat; buying that Exotic Weapon Proficiency effectively grants the 'finesseable' aspect to the weapon. Ishana's Weapon Focus (Flails) and Slashing Grace (Whip) is still perfectly legitimate, plus since she's receiving Weapon Finesse for free, she has one Feat remaining to use.
Lessah:
I would far prefer as much continuity as possible. I can understand the desire to burn it all down and rebuild from scratch, so I'll allow you to do so with one caveat: at the very, very least, the new character should perform the same function that Skie did, e.g. a social adept with some amount of up-close-and-backstabbing-ness. That's a fairly broad canvas for specifics; go to.
Hm, why can I not take Grapple with this HeroLab mod. GM can I also swap out Dirty Fighting since I legitimately only took it to avoid the Combat Expertise feat tax which is no longer valid.
EDIT
Wow lame there is still an intelligence requirement with the new tax rules
UGH.
If a technique had a high INT (or Dex, or whatever) as a requirement before, yes, it still does. Improved Grapple is rolled into Unarmed Combatant, which gives you both that and Improved Unarmed Strike. Dirty Fighting would therefore still be required for the conversion of Improved Dirty Trick into Deft Maneuvers.
I'm confused, didn't he remove all the improved Dirty Trick / Disarm etc things from the game.
Or do I need to take a feat tax, to take the anti feat tax feat ;)
Thanks for Unarmed Combatant tip, was looking everywhere for it.
No. The seperate Strength maneuvers (improved versions of bull rush, drag, overrun, and sunder) got wrapped into a single feat, 'Powerful Maneuvers'; the seperate Int/Dex maneuvers (Improved versions of disarm, dirty trick, reposition, trip, and steal) were wrapped into another single feat, 'Deft Maneuvers', which still have an attribute requirement of 13 as appropriate (STR for Powerful, INT for Deft). Improved Grapple and Improved Unarmed Combat are wrapped into Unarmed Combatant. Combat Expertise and Power Attack are granted to all regardless of attribute; any attribute requirements for other feats which depend on them (and the +1 BAB requirement for Power Attack) remain as they were originally.
Ishana changes her Weapon Focus from 'whip' to 'flails', gets a feat refund on combat expertise (+1 feat), and converts her 'Improved Dirty Trick' to 'Deft Maneuvers'; she effectively gains Agile Maneuvers, Combat Expertise, Deadly Aim, and Power Attack for free.
Awesome, thanks GM!
Ishana's been upgraded and is ready. Pretty happy at her combat maneuver flexibility at present, I'll get Grapple later, when I can use my Whip for it.
To avoid any other people dropping me notes, and because GM has not posted a clarification:
Obviously my previous post was sufficiently offensive to be called out on it via PM with an ultimatum that I would get kicked out for good if I made one more mistake.
I explained that this was not my intent, I don't see it as deliberately hostile, and offered to quit right away if after my explanation he wanted me to.
GM TWO took me up on that offer and set me as inactive.
As such, I will not be rejoining and would appreciate no further notifications in any of my other games. Thank you.
Ah, sorry, I guess I didn't quite explain fully what I wanted to switch. I was only hoping to switch it from "monastery that seeks self-perfection through physical discipline and the exploration of self" to "academy that seeks self-perfection through the careful study and practice of magic" basically, it would just change the composition of the organization from mostly martial characters to mostly magical ones, but if you don't want that, no problem.