I... have this character concept for a NPC about a female aasimar who's a warrior-priest, or holy warrior, for her church. Here's the catch: what's the "best" class to represent a holy warrior?
Before I forget, 2 feats will be used for Angelic Blood and Angel Wings (Advanced Race Guide). The rest? Well, all depending on the class.
Cleric has Channel Energy, which can be modified via the Channel Force feats, for aasimars. However, combat-wise, it's mostly reliant on spells.
Paladin has more martial oriented, can take Unsanctioned Knowledge to add 4 spells, would take Divine Bond (weapon), since she would have wings.
Inquisitor is more about hunting specific targets, has subpar weapon proficiencies, but the spells and judgments are pretty decent.
Warpriest is a combat-oriented cleric, but the domain abilities aren't that spectacular.
Each class has its pros and cons, but I'd like to know your opinion about the classes that could work for a winged aasimar holy warrior ^_^
Are you OK with LG? Paladin is strictly LG which could be a deterrent.
I would say multi-class Warpriest/Cleric or Warpriest/Cleric Archetype that fits the concept.
Which deity?
How heavy-handed a warrior? (2-H weapon & heavy armor or light weapon(s) & light armor, or inbetween?
1 Well a Paladin is technically a full warrior with some "holy" powers.
2 A Cleric is a tier 9 caster devoted to one god.
3 a Warpriest is essentially a Cleric that traded a huge number of spells for some useful class features and proficiencies, which the Cleric lacks.
Cleric would eventually be the most powerful because of its assortment of spells, but hurts very early on mainly because of MAD problems and lack of proficiencies.
Honestly as you have to wait until level 10 for Wings where Spells would be alot more important, but if you want a WARRIOR then pick Paladin. Its full BAB.
Do you intend to go for an alternate heritage on your aasimar? If not, then +wis/+cha is best inclined to a cleric. If alternate heritages, then Angelblood paladin would match the feat names and be stat-inclined towards paladin.
Ultimately, cleric and warpriest can get wind walk (though warpriest rather late), so the wings would be only one level (if you can somehow get it at 10th) before being able to already fly if a cleric (or 6 for warpriest) - or they can cast Angelic Aspect at 9th or 13th, meaning Angel Wings are redundant at most levels on cleric and warpriest.
Inquisitor could be fluffed as a holy warrior with relative ease, but I think Paladin is probably the best - they value their spell slots enough that angelic aspect isn't something they'd be able to just prepare normally.
So, I recommend Angelblood Paladin, especially for the vivid imagery (only problem is the armor and wings)
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Are you OK with LG? Paladin is strictly LG which could be a deterrent.
I would say multi-class Warpriest/Cleric or Warpriest/Cleric Archetype that fits the concept.
Well, she's an aasimar, and while she could be of any alignment, I do plan of keeping her in line with her celestial heritag ;)
BTW, in addition of not being able to multiclass warpriest/cleric since warpriest has already cleric as a parent class, I... don't like multiclassing as a general idea :S
Which deity?
How heavy-handed a warrior? (2-H weapon & heavy armor or light weapon(s) & light armor, or inbetween?
I do intend to have her of a Good alignment, so deities can be of "any Good alignment". As I stated, the only thing that I plan to have is the wings, so two-handed weapons, sword and board, archery... No restriction here.
The Warpriest gets the most feats of the three options, so if you're going to spend 2 feats on the Aasimar feats, you'll miss them least with the WP.
By 11th level, when you could take Angel Wings, a Paladin or Cleric would have 6 feats, but the Warpriest would have 9 (10 if you were going to take weapon focus anyway.) So if the rest of your build is feat intensive...
1 Well a Paladin is technically a full warrior with some "holy" powers.
2 A Cleric is a tier 9 caster devoted to one god.
3 a Warpriest is essentially a Cleric that traded a huge number of spells for some useful class features and proficiencies, which the Cleric lacks.
Cleric would eventually be the most powerful because of its assortment of spells, but hurts very early on mainly because of MAD problems and lack of proficiencies.
Honestly as you have to wait until level 10 for Wings where Spells would be alot more important, but if you want a WARRIOR then pick Paladin. Its full BAB.
A "warrior" can have either full BAB or 3/4 BAB these days, so it all comes down to any of the four classes' features.
Do you intend to go for an alternate heritage on your aasimar? If not, then +wis/+cha is best inclined to a cleric. If alternate heritages, then Angelblood paladin would match the feat names and be stat-inclined towards paladin.
Ultimately, cleric and warpriest can get wind walk (though warpriest rather late), so the wings would be only one level (if you can somehow get it at 10th) before being able to already fly if a cleric (or 6 for warpriest) - or they can cast Angelic Aspect at 9th or 13th, meaning Angel Wings are redundant at most levels on cleric and warpriest.
Inquisitor could be fluffed as a holy warrior with relative ease, but I think Paladin is probably the best - they value their spell slots enough that angelic aspect isn't something they'd be able to just prepare normally.
So, I recommend Angelblood Paladin, especially for the vivid imagery (only problem is the armor and wings)
I... am not fond of relying on spells for movement. Even if Wind Walk and Angelic Aspect provide flight, I prefer actual wings than spending a spell.
As a proud owner of Blood of Angels, I'm open to bloodlines ^_^ She can have cat eyes like an agathion, green feathers like a garuda or fiery-like hair like a peri.
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Well
Warrior priest...
War priest...
It's what the class is designed for
Also you haven't mentioned oracle there are loads of ways for you to build a melee combat oracle
That being said
I personally like to play both Paladins and oracles, though I would like to point out that you can't be a chaotic good paladin, and you can only be neutral good if you take a racial trait for it.
But there's nothing wrong with being Lawful Good, it would render some certain options unplayable
I personally like to play both Paladins and oracles, though I would like to point out that you can't be a chaotic good paladin, and you can only be neutral good if you take a racial trait for it.
Gray Paladin, from Ultimate Intrigue, can be one step away.
The trait, enlightened warrior, I think, is for NG or TN aasimar monks, not paladins.
But yes, that part can be a little restrictive.
arsenal chaplain warpriest. Gives you a decent blessing and free quickened blessing.
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Inquisitor doesn't exactly have sub-par weapon proficiencies. It has full ranged proficiencies plus the deity's Favored Weapon. Shelyn would give a Glaive, for example.
Inquisitor is also the best of those Classes at out-of-combat stuff.
So...what's most important? Out-of-combat stuff, spellcasting, or raw combat? Paladins are better at raw combat than the others, Clerics at casting, and Inquisitors at out-of-combat stuff.
I... have this character concept for a NPC about a female aasimar who's a warrior-priest, or holy warrior, for her church. Here's the catch: what's the "best" class to represent a holy warrior?
ANY of them. cleric, battle oracle, paladin, war-priest, or even a fighter with holy arms and armor.
All of these are worthy paths to the same road... they just take different paths to get there.
So play the class you WANT MOST to play.
Clerics are more magic focused and less martial so while they may be a more powerful class their combat abilities is the worst of the classes you mentioned. The inquisitor is more of a divine secret agent than a warrior. They can nova and serious damage, but lack staying power for a warrior. That pretty much leaves the paladin or warpriest.
Paladins have several advantages first of all they are a full BAB class. Smite evil allows them to out damage just about anything when attacking an evil target. Their damage vs a non-evil target is decent, but most other martial classes will probably do better. But paladins have another major advantage over other martial characters and that is they have significantly better defenses than just about anything in the game. Divine grace gives them the best saves in the game. Reflex is their weak save and they often can match many classes that get it as a good save. They also get several immunities and about the only good combat healing in the game. Swift action healing gives them a huge advantage in combat and it works like most of the paladins other defenses it works vs enemies of any alignment.
Warpriests have less combat ability than a paladin due to being a ¾ BAB class with a d8 hit dice, but have better spells. The Campion of the Fait archetype gives you a lot of the same abilities of a paladin but not all of them and to use smite evil you have to burn two uses of Fervor. You do get some bonus feats and can also pick up fighter only feats which will help, but overall the paladin is probably the stronger warrior.
I think either the paladin or the warpriest is going to be your best choice. If you want to focus more on the fighting side of things and be the last character to go down the paladin is probably your best bet. If you want more magic power and are willing to sacrifice some combat ability then the warpriest is your best bet.
First thought is to go War Priest, however Cleric would be better if you are going to go with the favored weapon I think.
out of the classes you re considering I would say Paladin is the strongest frontliner. If you have to be in the face of the enemy from round one, like when your party has no other warrior this would be my choice. They really lack feats so you ll probably end up with a big 2 hand weapon(sword) and go to town with powerattack. They are also very selfsustainable with their great safes and lay on hands ability.
Warpriest, I just love this class. Many say it isn t that strong but I disagree and found them to scale really well as they lvl. they might not be a top tier class but are really enjoyable because you have all the tools you could hope for. If you want a special build like shieldbashing, dualwielding, greater weapon of the chosen combat, or a good ranged build they provide you with the necessary feats. You can use small and original weapons like a whip or kukris and make a cool build with it. The blessings aren t that bad, like trickery where you can give yourself a mirror image as a move action but most of them will requiere a round to set up. But they should not be your focus, you chose this class for fervor.
You can also assist a cleric with group buffs, like protection from evil communal, bless if you choose so and are pretty selfsustainable as frontliner.
Cleric: I would not recommend you to play a cleric as frontliner. while they can certainly hold their own in battle and dish out some good dmg, I just feel you always want to do 2 things cast and whack mobs. You ll not be buffing your group as much, because you re more focused on yourself and after a certain level you ll have so many usefull spells that till you start wading into battle it is alrdy decided. In the end they lack the action economy and feats from the warpriest and selfsustainability from both classes mentioned above.
Inquisitor is certainly also a good option and if you don t want to be negleting skills you should go this route. They can easely keep up with dmg from a warpriest. You ll probably end up choosing your deity because of their favourite weapon and you ll have to stick to a build that doesn t relly on to many feats. If you want to make a intimidate build they offer you some great boosts out of the box.
Approaching this decision from another angle, what role do you want her (as an NPC) to have with your group? Does she need to play a secondary, support role? Is she more of a DMPC who will be fully engaged with all of the party's adventuring? Does the group need some front-line muscle? Or is there any other role that needs filing that one of these options may help with?
I... have this character concept for a NPC about a female aasimar who's a warrior-priest, or holy warrior, for her church. Here's the catch: what's the "best" class to represent a holy warrior?
<snip>Warpriest is a combat-oriented cleric, but the domain abilities aren't that spectacular.
I haven't played a warpriest, I'll admit, but I read the class description recently and fell in love. As a warpriest, you get magic armor and weapons for free, swift spells & healing targeting yourself, and cleric features like spontaneous cures & channel energy. I frankly don't see how another class could be better for a "warrior-priest."
Yeees, the blessings are disappointing in comparison to the Domain powers a cleric gets, but far from useless. To take the Air blessings as an example...
Zephyr's Gift (minor): At 1st level, you can touch any one ranged weapon and enhance it with the quality of air. For 1 minute, any attacks made with the weapon take no penalties due to range. In addition, making a ranged attack with this weapon doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity.
Soaring Assault (major): At 10th level, you can touch an ally and give her the gift of flight for 1 minute (as fly). The ally gains a fly speed of 60 feet with average maneuverability. She gains a bonus on Fly checks equal to your level. Whenever the ally succeeds at a charge attack while flying, that attack deals an amount of additional electricity damage equal to your level.
You could get these from Shelyn, who strikes me as a deity an angel might turn to -- but maybe not one who's so martially inclined. :) Certainly, both blessings seem like they'd come in handy! And since you're talking about a flying warrior, I'm thinking ranged combatant...
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Ive got a few Warpriests, and honestly I dont think they really hold up too well after the first few levels.
Much of what they can do, a regular Cleric can as well, (Greater Magic Weapon and Magic Vestment are Hour/Level buffs comparible to Sacred Weapon/Armor in many ways). Fervor stands out, but at the same time they lack some of the oomph similarly level battle Cleric or Oracle can dut to very limited Spell Progression and lack of additional spells added.
They are not terrible, but waiting until 10th level to be able to access Air Walk or Freedom of Movement hurts, and they are still relying on Bulls Strength or Divine Favor while Clerics and Oracles are looking at Divine Power and Righteous Might.
An angel blooded, winged, holy warrior you say? As someone who recommends picking an inquisitor whenever someone asks what class they should play, I'm going to point you in the direction of an inquisitor of Ragathiel, the flaming angel of vengeance. Ragathiel gets you proficiency with the bastard sword and access to the destruction domain and being an inquisitor gets you a bunch of skill points, bonuses to knowledges, intimidate, and initiative, a good selection of spells for buffs, judgement, bane, teamwork feats, and the mandate to go forth and kick ass for your god.
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Id tend to agree. As soon as you can get wings, you will probably want to dump as many points as you can into the Fly skill, (or get a +2 Int item with max ranks Fly). 2+Int, and even 4+Int classes are going to be difficult.
Id also really consider going ranged with Flight, so you can capitalize on easy manuverability on the battlefield for crowd control, area affects, and ranged attacks, while also generally staying out of threatened areas.
Erastil mught be another good option, (Longbow, Growth, Feather, Good, Animal, or Plant).
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If you're looking to be more of a holy warrior than a priest, I'd suggest thinking about Paladin and going all the way with the Aasimar racial feats theme, pick up both Angelic Flesh and Metallic Wings. This will net you two extra attacks that (even as secondary) will still hit all the time thanks to the bonus from Smite and will *destroy* any enemy you encounter with the damage you're doing plus a two hander (which basically only requires Power Attack as a feat, leaving you plenty of room for the racial ones).
In the air? On the ground? A pack? A single tough enemy? Doesn't matter. You can kill pretty much anything that refuses to see reason and wants to fight you.
If you're looking to be more of a holy warrior than a priest, I'd suggest thinking about Paladin and going all the way with the Aasimar racial feats theme, pick up both Angelic Flesh and Metallic Wings. This will net you two extra attacks that (even as secondary) will still hit all the time thanks to the bonus from Smite and will *destroy* any enemy you encounter with the damage you're doing plus a two hander (which basically only requires Power Attack as a feat, leaving you plenty of room for the racial ones).
In the air? On the ground? A pack? A single tough enemy? Doesn't matter. You can kill pretty much anything that refuses to see reason and wants to fight you.
If you're going aasimar paladin, I'd say use the angelic aspect spells and forget about the wings feat. Yes, it's not always on, but you get a better flight speed, and nice defensive bonuses to boot.
Approaching this decision from another angle, what role do you want her (as an NPC) to have with your group? Does she need to play a secondary, support role? Is she more of a DMPC who will be fully engaged with all of the party's adventuring? Does the group need some front-line muscle? Or is there any other role that needs filing that one of these options may help with?
I... plan to have her as an antagonistic role.
She's dedicated to her church and she's righteous... but it just so happens that the PCs... kinda need to protect someone who ends up as her target.
You know the idea of good PCs having to fight good NPCs, because they just don't get along? That kind of scenario.
The NPC's a skinwalker wrongly accused of a crime, but hey, you're "a werewolf", so you must be the culprit... while a REAL werewolf is scheming something else.
I... plan to have her as an antagonistic role.
She's dedicated to her church and she's righteous... but it just so happens that the PCs... kinda need to protect someone who ends up as her target.
You know the idea of good PCs having to fight good NPCs, because they just don't get along? That kind of scenario.
The NPC's a skinwalker wrongly accused of a crime, but hey, you're "a werewolf", so you must be the culprit... while a REAL werewolf is scheming something else.
Nice plot! It sounds like whichever you pick, cleric or warpriest, you'll have fun.
Then I'd definitely not have them be a Paladin or especially Inquisitor. Detect Evil and especially Discern Lies ruin that plot pretty thoroughly.
How? Detect Evil isn't a sure-fire way to detect everything wrong with a person and while Discern Lies helps in investigations, it often doesn't "count" as a valid source when compared at actually saying the truth. Spells are almost as valid as the lie detector in court: it works, but not reliable.
If you're going aasimar paladin, I'd say use the angelic aspect spells and forget about the wings feat. Yes, it's not always on, but you get a better flight speed, and nice defensive bonuses to boot.If you're looking to be more of a holy warrior than a priest, I'd suggest thinking about Paladin and going all the way with the Aasimar racial feats theme, pick up both Angelic Flesh and Metallic Wings. This will net you two extra attacks that (even as secondary) will still hit all the time thanks to the bonus from Smite and will *destroy* any enemy you encounter with the damage you're doing plus a two hander (which basically only requires Power Attack as a feat, leaving you plenty of room for the racial ones).
In the air? On the ground? A pack? A single tough enemy? Doesn't matter. You can kill pretty much anything that refuses to see reason and wants to fight you.
*coughcoughpermanencycoughcough* XD
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How? Detect Evil isn't a sure-fire way to detect everything wrong with a person
True. But it doesn't need to be to ruin that plot. At-will Detect Evil is something that they should be using on all suspects, and non-Evil people should not be assumed innocent, but it should make them inclined to ask them to come peacefully. And if they have a compelling argument why they were framed, it should strongly incline a Paladin or Good-aligned Inquisitor to listen to it.
In short, if nobody's Evil and the PCs are willing to talk, it seems likely so would any Good Aligned character. Which sorta short-circuits the idea of a fight.
and while Discern Lies helps in investigations, it often doesn't "count" as a valid source when compared at actually saying the truth. Spells are almost as valid as the lie detector in court: it works, but not reliable.
Off-Topic: Actually, real-world 'lie detectors' don't work at all. They detect whether people are nervous...and that's about it.
On Topic: That's actually not true for an investigator, because the caster can tell whether they made the Save. It's sorta true in court, but only inasmuch as the person who cast it could be lying. For the investigator? It's absolute proof if they're willing to flub the save or you try it enough times.
And an Inquisitor has enough separate (1 round) tries with Detect Lies that they can ask the same question each time and be absolutely certain after one or two days uses. Nobody can reasonably make 10 or 20 saves in a row. Which means they'll fail at least once, and if they fail once you know they failed and know whether they lied.
That's enough to screw that plot right up.
How? Detect Evil isn't a sure-fire way to detect everything wrong with a personTrue. But it doesn't need to be to ruin that plot. At-will Detect Evil is something that they should be using on all suspects, and non-Evil people should not be assumed innocent, but it should make them inclined to ask them to come peacefully. And if they have a compelling argument why they were framed, it should strongly incline a Paladin or Good-aligned Inquisitor to listen to it.
In short, if nobody's Evil and the PCs are willing to talk, it seems likely so would any Good Aligned character. Which sorta short-circuits the idea of a fight.
and while Discern Lies helps in investigations, it often doesn't "count" as a valid source when compared at actually saying the truth. Spells are almost as valid as the lie detector in court: it works, but not reliable.Off-Topic: Actually, real-world 'lie detectors' don't work at all. They detect whether people are nervous...and that's about it.
On Topic: That's actually not true for an investigator, because the caster can tell whether they made the Save. It's sorta true in court, but only inasmuch as the person who cast it could be lying. For the investigator? It's absolute proof if they're willing to flub the save or you try it enough times.
And an Inquisitor has enough separate (1 round) tries with Detect Lies that they can ask the same question each time and be absolutely certain after one or two days uses. Nobody can reasonably make 10 or 20 saves in a row. Which means they'll fail at least once, and if they fail once you know they failed and know whether they lied.
That's enough to screw that plot right up.
You do realize that clerics and warpriests both have these spells on their list? Even Paladins get discern lies on their list. They all also have zone of truth as well. Since all the classes except the inquisitor are also prepared divine casters they all have access to these spells if needed.
Detect Evil also does not work on low level characters unless they have the aura class feature. And in that case a neutral character worshiping an evil deity will actually detect as evil when they are not actually evil.
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You do realize that clerics and warpriests both have these spells on their list? Even Paladins get discern lies on their list. They all also have zone of truth as well. Since all the classes except the inquisitor are also prepared divine casters they all have access to these spells if needed.
Sure. But they'd have to have prepared it, which isn't a given if being sent alone to fight 'a dangerous werewolf' who there's lots of evidence against.
The Paladin or Inquisitor has them even without investing resources, and thus can't be justified as not possessing them. Or not easily anyway. A Cleric or Warpriest can easily be justified as not having prepped those options today.
Detect Evil also does not work on low level characters unless they have the aura class feature. And in that case a neutral character worshiping an evil deity will actually detect as evil when they are not actually evil.
Sure. But from the situation description, I don't think either of those apply (you have to be less than 5th level to not show up, and there's no evidence of Evil deities or their worshipers being involved).
And even if the 'low level' bit does apply to the skinwalker, from description a powerful werewolf did something awful he's being blamed for. Which seems likely to be the kind of thing a 4 HD guy probably couldn't pull off...which leaves Detect Evil as good evidence something is fishy here.
The DM could slip the party an evil item (or even perhaps something like a wand of Infernal Healing) which might ping as Evil, and cause some degree of mistrust in there. ("They managed to hide their wickedness well, but missed something. What else are they hiding or blocking. . .")
Hmmm... interesting ;)
Still, two LG characters can fight each other if they're at odds on a subject, decision or whatever. Or even better, if your PCs tick off the law, guess who they might have to fight XD
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Still, two LG characters can fight each other if they're at odds on a subject, decision or whatever. Or even better, if your PCs tick off the law, guess who they might have to fight XD
Oh, absolutely. I find the plot totally plausible as long as the LG authority figure doesn't have some magic that says 'These people are really likely to be telling the truth.' immediately and loudly.
You might also want to consider what level this will run to. The group I play with are running 3 AP's. Two have Inquisitors, both are thinking of multiclassing out (at different level, to different things)
They appear to run out of momentum after a while.
By the way, you CAN multiclass warpriest with cleric or fighter. That restriction never got to print, it was only during the playtest that it wasn't allowed. Not that I really see the point to, though...
Also, don't be afraid to think outside the box. You don't need a class that forces you to be devoted to a god in order to roleplay being devoted to a god. A straight-up fighter could make a great zealot, even if he lacks any spells to show off his devotion. Ranger's another option, they even get divine spells as a bonus.
If you were going LG, paladin's obviously a great choice. I think there's a sub-par archetype that allows NG or LN too.
I'm not a fan of the warpriest. Seems to take a whole lot more from the cleric than it gets from elsewhere. I'm not a fan of 2/3 BAB classes in general, though, so inquisitor doesn't appeal to me much either.
So I'd just go with what kind of "holy warrior" do you want? A crusader-like warrior, who dedicates himself to his god without asking anything in return, displaying great combat prowess? Fighter. One who wields the blessings of his god and has a greater penchant for cooperation and helping others of the church? Paladin. Or one who can wield the raw power of his god to smite his enemies? Cleric.
Honestly I think holy warrior concept can fit with any class, it'll just depend on how you want to fight for your god.
Taking the deific obedience feat or a deity trait can show devotion and stronger ties to a deity.