So recently I posted a bunch of "Hot Mess" Threads. Then I got involved in the OP thread. It has made me thinking about what I call the "One true way". So decided to throw together a fighter. I really do not intend to play him, just wanted to see what people think of him.
So my rules were using the stats from the hot mess, I made a fighter that I thought would be considered really optimized.
I gave up my free feat and skills for the +2 attributes, I did toy with taking Fast learner, but decided against it. After all the point was to make the best fighter I could at first level, and skills not that essential for the idea. I realize that this will make him dependent on others, but he should be a killing machine...
Tell me what I should have done different.
Sgt Slam
Human fighter 1
NG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +8; Senses Perception +7
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 19, touch 12, flat-footed 17 (+5 armor, +2 Dex, +2 shield)
hp 15 (1d10+5)
Fort +6, Ref +2, Will +2
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Melee dagger +5 (1d4+4/19-20) or
. . heavy mace +5 (1d8+4) or
. . longsword +6 (1d8+4/19-20) or
. . short sword +5 (1d6+4/19-20)
Ranged sling +3 (1d4+4)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 18, Dex 15, Con 18, Int 12, Wis 15, Cha 15
Base Atk +1; CMB +5; CMD 17
Feats Improved Initiative, Weapon Focus (longsword)
Traits adopted, elven reflexes, eyes and ears of the city
Skills Acrobatics -4 (-8 to jump), Intimidate +6, Perception +7, Profession (soldier) +6
Languages Common, Dwarven, Goblin
Other Gear scale mail, heavy steel shield, dagger, heavy mace, longsword, short sword, sling, sling bullets (10), fighter gear (worth 9 gp), 31 gp, 9 sp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Inc.®, and are used under license.
I'd dump his Wis, and Cha stats, and put them into Str, Dex, and Con. Keep the human feat. Get Power Attack, and Cleave, and if you want Weapon Focus it should be for a Greatsword.
Edit: You'd only want Cleave if this build is only meant to be a level 1 fighter. But if you want to continue in levels, than I'd suggest a Two-Handed Fighter build with Whirlwind Attack, Lunge, and Improved Critical, Critical Focus, Critical Mastery, and any other Critical feat.
Falchion does more damage overall so that's the weapon I'd recommend for him. Ranged fighter technically led the DPR olympics last time I checked.
I'd consider any of the following archetypes: Mutation Warrior, Eldritch Guardian, Drill Sergeant, Archer, Tactician, or Weapon Master.
I'd go with Old Wise Man - keep the 1st level human bonus feat. Trade skilled for Heart of the Fields or Dimdweller.
Get Power Attack, skip Cleave.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Sacrficing a third of your speed for 1 point of AC isn't good; otherwise it's acceptable as a first level character. The trouble is that none of what you have scales well. One handed weapon damage isn't going to be enough by ~3rd level and you're not building towards a TWF or shield bash build which might keep up otherwise. Aside from yelling at people you do nothing out of combat well, and relying on just your good stats for skills won't be enough pretty soon.
If you want optimal at 1st level, I would want combat reflexes and a reach weapon. For that matter, combat reflexes + reach continues to scale ok up until the later levels, but it is very strong in many situations at level 1.
Combat reflexes + Power Attack as two feats, combined with a guisarme means you can take up to 4 attacks/round at level 1 doing an average of 14 damage when you hit. Will you get 4 attacks every round? No. But you can easily have a lot of fights where you face off against 3 or 4 CR 1/2 creatures, and they all die trying to get to melee range with you.
Um. That's a 43 point buy, of course it's OP.
Arguable, yes, but that kind of "OP" is entirely subjective. A 43- point buy character is pretty much guaranteed to be good.
Arguable, yes, but that kind of "OP" is entirely subjective. A 43- point buy character is pretty much guaranteed to be good.
Not really. Sure, you'll have nice attributes, but if you know what you're doing, you'd only need one high attribute. It's more to do with feats, and class features.
It is a 4d6 drop the lowest build
As mentioned, I am wondering where these stats are coming from. If you're trying to stat something up for theory, I think you might want to stick to a 20-point build; it seems to be one of the most common standards I see around here. Rolling is ... well, a little random to depend on.
That said? I think what the OP is trying to do is get the 'ideal' sword-and-board, clank in armour, stereotypical combat on-foot knight here. Most of the issues I see in this sort of thing are 'do enough damage to make the monster care about you' sorts of things. This is fine for the first few levels, I'd say, but Power Attack is one of the things anyone on the frontline wants to have -- it even shows up in a few advice columns for the 3/4 BAB classes, let alone the full BAB smashers.
It is a 4d6 drop the lowest build
Everybody rolls great stats when there's no witnesses. It's how gaming dice work.
It is a 4d6 drop the lowest buildEverybody rolls great stats when there's no witnesses. It's how gaming dice work.
I always make sure to throw smoke bombs along with my dice for good luck.
Admittedly, I am fairly sure the average of 4d6k3 is about....13? 14? So 3 15's and 2 16's isn't impossible to imagine.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
A fighter that focuses on defense is not an anyway optimized. Turtling up doesn't do much to end encounters.I am currently of the opinion that using a shield is more optimized than not using a shield. Of course, though, I currently favor brawler 2/ other classes x builds that two weapon fight with one weapon (based on brawler's flurry) while using a shield.
A shield is anywhere between 1 to 7 points of AC, that's it. AC is only one type of defense necessary to a character and the downside to wield that shield is severely reduced damage due to losing out on a 50% strength bonus and 50% bonus to power attack.
Unless you're doing a TWF build that includes it shield it's pretty much never worth it to bother with a shield. If you really need the option I prefer to wield a 1 handed weapon in two hands (the damage dice of the weapon stops mattering pretty quickly and the scimitar is otherwise excellent) and use a quickdraw shield for the extra AC when really necessary. Otherwise the extra damage from two-handing helps end fights more quickly and usually means the party takes less damage.
The problem being that if you're too hard to hit the monster finds someone else to kill while you ineffectually try to kill it.
You can make that judgement based on 1 class for 1 scenario.
Yes, a brawler flurrying with a shield is highly effective because you get extra attacks like your were TWF without actually needing two weapons to TWF. I also even mentioned TWF builds can be successful with a shield (and in the case TWF includes flurrying builds).
Also, I don't know exactly how you're building the character but I'm fairly certain it's not dealing 400 damage per rounds, but I would honestly have to see it to believe it. You would end up needing like +80 or more damage per hit to get anywhere near 400 damage per round. You only have 4 attacks from flurrying, unless you start taking Improved/Greater Two Weapon Fighting feats, which I'm not sure even work with flurrying to extend how it works. (I don't think taking the feats gives you extra flurry attacks, but you would end up needing to enhance two weapons to fight that way).
The special quality of flurry lets you flurry with 1 weapon, but if you start using regular TWF you need two weapons.
You can make that judgement based on 1 class for 1 scenario.
Yes, a brawler flurrying with a shield is highly effective because you get extra attacks like your were TWF without actually needing two weapons to TWF. I also even mentioned TWF builds can be successful with a shield (and in the case TWF includes flurrying builds).
Also, I don't know exactly how you're building the character but I'm fairly certain it's not dealing 400 damage per rounds, but I would honestly have to see it to believe it. You would end up needing like +80 or more damage per hit to get anywhere near 400 damage per round. You only have 4 attacks from flurrying, unless you start taking Improved/Greater Two Weapon Fighting feats, which I'm not sure even work with flurrying to extend how it works. (I don't think taking the feats gives you extra flurry attacks, but you would end up needing to enhance two weapons to fight that way).
The special quality of flurry lets you flurry with 1 weapon, but if you start using regular TWF you need two weapons.
It's based on 7 attacks per round with haste (character takes I2WF and G2WF as feats). It does require one standard action to activate warrior spirit to make the weapon +5 bane/holy and a move action to get +2HIT/DAM from brawler martial flexibility taking the favored enemy feat. I think it also assumed enlarge person active and mutagen; also has a vestigial arm so the 9 ring broadsword is actually wielded with 2 hands. Bonus from big game hunter.
So something like:
+12BAB+7Weapon+9STR-1Large-4PA+4Weapon Training+2FE feat+1Competence+1Haste+2WF+1BGH-2 2WF=32/32/32/27/27/22/22Damage
+9STR+7WPN+4WT+12PA+2FE+4WS+2BGH;2-12+40+4-24 (bane/holy) x3/19-20
Um....if you're flurrying with a shield how are you using a nine ring broadsword? That's literally impossible. You can't flurry and TWF fight at the same time, and flurry doesn't get extra attacks by taking Improved and Greater Two Weapon Fighting, though Brawler's Flurry would count (maybe) as having the Two Weapon Fighting Feat to enable you to have to take Improved and Greater Two Weapon Fighting, which would enable you to fight as one normally would with TWF which would require two weapons (which you can then not wield in two hands).
You're also assuming a lot of buffs that your character can't grant itself.
Also, vestigial arm doesn't give you any extra attacks or even allow you to exceed the normal 2 hands worth of effort you can normally use.
I like your build, in concept.
PA is better than Improved Init.
You can make that judgement based on 1 class for 1 scenario.
Yes, a brawler flurrying with a shield is highly effective because you get extra attacks like your were TWF without actually needing two weapons to TWF. I also even mentioned TWF builds can be successful with a shield (and in the case TWF includes flurrying builds).
Also, I don't know exactly how you're building the character but I'm fairly certain it's not dealing 400 damage per rounds, but I would honestly have to see it to believe it. You would end up needing like +80 or more damage per hit to get anywhere near 400 damage per round. You only have 4 attacks from flurrying, unless you start taking Improved/Greater Two Weapon Fighting feats, which I'm not sure even work with flurrying to extend how it works. (I don't think taking the feats gives you extra flurry attacks, but you would end up needing to enhance two weapons to fight that way).
The special quality of flurry lets you flurry with 1 weapon, but if you start using regular TWF you need two weapons.
It's based on 7 attacks per round with haste (character takes I2WF and G2WF as feats). It does require one standard action to activate warrior spirit to make the weapon +5 bane/holy and a move action to get +2HIT/DAM from brawler martial flexibility taking the favored enemy feat. I think it also assumed enlarge person active and mutagen; also has a vestigial arm so the 9 ring broadsword is actually wielded with 2 hands. Bonus from big game hunter.
So something like:
+12BAB+7Weapon+9STR-1Large-4PA+4Weapon Training+2FE feat+1Competence+1Haste+2WF+1BGH-2 2WF=32/32/32/27/27/22/22Damage
+9STR+7WPN+4WT+12PA+2FE+4WS+2BGH;2-12+40+4-24 (bane/holy) x3/19-20
Um ... there isn't a feat that grants Favoured Enemy that I could find. That's kind'a a Ranger thing. Nine-ring sword barely makes it because of the claimed fighter levels and being a monk weapon itself, although this means small shield or increase those penalties on two-weapon fighting.
You don't get 1.5x Strength bonus for to-hit, so +9 Str there only works if you're at Str 28.
I also see '+12PA' in your damage listing. That means -4 to hit, too.
Your Weapon Training bonus would be +TWO for tenth-level fighter, so Warrior Spirit gives you a way to add a +2 enhancement bonus to your weapon. Hope you already have your +5 nine-ring broadsword.
Um ... there isn't a feat that grants Favoured Enemy that I could find. That's kind'a a Ranger thing. Nine-ring sword barely makes it because of the claimed fighter levels and being a monk weapon itself, although this means small shield or increase those penalties on...
Yuck. I'd skip that -- it's a weaker version. It doesn't look like it improves, and instead of being against a creature type or subtype, it's a specific kind -- as described, you could pick 'wolf' but not 'animal', or 'goblin' but not 'goblinoids'. Way too niche to be counted in something like this.
Yuck. I'd skip that -- it's a weaker version. It doesn't look like it improves, and instead of being against a creature type or subtype, it's a specific kind -- as described, you could pick 'wolf' but not 'animal', or 'goblin' but not 'goblinoids'. Way too niche to be counted in something like this.
Um ... there isn't a feat that grants Favoured Enemy that I could find. That's kind'a a Ranger thing. Nine-ring sword barely makes it because of the claimed fighter levels and being a monk weapon itself, although this means small shield or increase those penalties on...
Dedicated adversary is normally one of the least effective feats ever, yes. However, in the hands of a brawler (such as it was suggested for above), it is one of the MOST effective ever. Specifically, it is "move action for +2 Hit and +2 damage", and +2 hit is incredibly good, even without the minor damage buff.
Dedicated Adversary on a brawler isn't a bad choice, since you can use you temporary feats to pick it and change it each combat.
But the rest of the build mentioned above doesn't work, is illegal, or at least hasn't be adequately described in functionality.