Cyrad RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16 |
Is it just me or is saying you want them redone different from being removed all together. It keeps tripping me up when I read some peoples responses.
I don't know. Honestly, most of the responses here feel more like what they prefer in their houserules rather than omissions that would improve the game mechanically. All done in a really negative tone.
Headfirst |
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Eryx_UK wrote:CMB and CMD are just redundant. To Hit and AC should be plenty to resolve grapples and related attacks.Hybrid classes.
Attacks of Opportunity (or at least find another way to handle it).
Grapple rules (and do new ones that don't need a PHD in nuclear physics to work out).
Or just call them "attack" and "defense" and apply different modifiers to each. Go Improved Grapple? Add +2 on attack rolls to grapple. Got Mobility? Add +4 on defense rolls provoked by AOOs from moving. You're right; there's no need for 4 stats and, furthermore, those stats have absurdly confusing names for what they actually do.
Cyrad RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16 |
Eryx_UK wrote:CMB and CMD are just redundant. To Hit and AC should be plenty to resolve grapples and related attacks.Hybrid classes.
Attacks of Opportunity (or at least find another way to handle it).
Grapple rules (and do new ones that don't need a PHD in nuclear physics to work out).
I'm not seeing how it's redundant. CMB largely exists as convenience for the player, because combat manuevers are literally just melee attack rolls. If you took away CMB and replaced it with a "Melee To Hit" statistic, you haven't really accomplished anything except force the player to do more math.
Ranishe |
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One issue with combining hit & cmb is that you remove ways to get around armored targets. When faced with an iron wall, trip and grapple can be used to influence the target where regular attacks may not (because of low hit chance). It's similar to how ray attacks from mages target touch ac. Of course you could also make combat maneuvers target touch ac as well.
Headfirst |
DungeonmasterCal wrote:I'm not seeing how it's redundant. CMB largely exists as convenience for the player, because combat manuevers are literally just melee attack rolls. If you took away CMB and replaced it with a "Melee To Hit" statistic, you haven't really accomplished anything except force the player to do more math.Eryx_UK wrote:CMB and CMD are just redundant. To Hit and AC should be plenty to resolve grapples and related attacks.Hybrid classes.
Attacks of Opportunity (or at least find another way to handle it).
Grapple rules (and do new ones that don't need a PHD in nuclear physics to work out).
I think he meant to get rid of CMB and let regular attack rolls handle maneuvers. The game uses "to hit" and "attack roll" inconsistently, but they are in fact synonyms.
Headfirst |
One issue with combining hit & cmb is that you remove ways to get around armored targets. When faced with an iron wall, trip and grapple can be used to influence the target where regular attacks may not (because of low hit chance). It's similar to how ray attacks from mages target touch ac. Of course you could also make combat maneuvers target touch ac as well.
This is probably the best fix.
RedDingo |
Is it just me or is saying you want them redone different from being removed all together. It keeps tripping me up when I read some peoples responses.
It kind of goes hand in hand. There are some feats, spells, and rulesets that are great in theory but are poor in execution. Then there are other things that while their existence hampers enjoyment, still require a suitable replacement to make the game work better.
kyrt-ryder |
Azten wrote:Again, I don't think Paizo should get their hands on any of the 3rd party classes.Well, obviously. We'd just port them into "Core" as-is. Don't know why the developers hate fighters so much.
They don't hate fighters, they love fighters......
..... In the context of the game as they play it. One where wizards tend towards casual blasting and clerics casual healing.
Raving Nerd |
They don't hate fighters, they love fighters......
..... In the context of the game as they play it. One where wizards tend towards casual blasting and clerics casual healing.
Having played some Paizo APs that included dungeon crawls, I have a feeling that the PATHFINDER (TM) GAMESTYLE include one scripted combat encounter after another.
kyrt-ryder |
kyrt-ryder wrote:Having played some Paizo APs that included dungeon crawls, I have a feeling that the PATHFINDER (TM) GAMESTYLE include one scripted combat encounter after another.They don't hate fighters, they love fighters......
..... In the context of the game as they play it. One where wizards tend towards casual blasting and clerics casual healing.
Do please elaborate on this point, it's not one I've heard before.
TriOmegaZero |
Do please elaborate on this point, it's not one I've heard before.
Paizo adventures expect you to follow the path. You're playing D&D, the way it was meant to be, with a nuclear party. Sure, you might swap a witch in for the arcane caster. Maybe you have a ranger for your rogue. But you don't step outside the box too much. You follow the breadcrumbs, you take the encounters headon (apply directly to the forehead), and you do what the author expected you to do when they wrote it.
Raving Nerd |
Do please elaborate on this point, it's not one I've heard before.
Played several APs with dungeon crawls. You enter the dungeon. There is an encounter. Roll initiative. Now move onto the next portion of the dungeon. There is another encounter. Roll initiative. Continue onward. Time for the boss fight. Roll initiative.
Compared to older modules, like Keep on the Borderlands, Paizo's APs are Point A to Point B.
Ranishe |
One problem with maneuvers targetting touch ac is that it's attribute reliant. That is, the dex based archer ranger will be harder to trip, grab, bullrush etc than the str based two handed fighter. More importantly, touch ac doesn't really scale. You'd quickly have characters able to grapple / trip everything because bab scales with level while touch ac doesnt. If you add bab to this specific instance....you're back to cmd.
A different way to make things more consistant is a thing I'm looking at, which is adding bab to ac. Although that has its own host of caveats and changes required to make it work.
Cyrad RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16 |
Cyrad wrote:I think he meant to get rid of CMB and let regular attack rolls handle maneuvers. The game uses "to hit" and "attack roll" inconsistently, but they are in fact synonyms.DungeonmasterCal wrote:I'm not seeing how it's redundant. CMB largely exists as convenience for the player, because combat manuevers are literally just melee attack rolls. If you took away CMB and replaced it with a "Melee To Hit" statistic, you haven't really accomplished anything except force the player to do more math.Eryx_UK wrote:CMB and CMD are just redundant. To Hit and AC should be plenty to resolve grapples and related attacks.Hybrid classes.
Attacks of Opportunity (or at least find another way to handle it).
Grapple rules (and do new ones that don't need a PHD in nuclear physics to work out).
That's not true. "To hit" is not a game term in Pathfinder RPG. Any instance of the term in an official publication is a typo. Likewise with calling Strength and Intelligence "attributes" instead of ability scores. These mistakes tend to appear in homebrew material and 3pp publications.
A combat maneuver is pretty much a regular attack roll. The only difference is that there's some variance in what bonuses apply, which would still have to exist in a system that nixes CMB.
Cyrad RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16 |
1.) all the weird comabt modifiers that arent well explained in the book (ie +1 longsword +14/+9/+4(1d4+1/19-20))
2.) One of the magic classes
3.)The use of different pronouns depending on the class or race.
And thus everyone gets triggered and floods the forums with hate messages....
Can you explain what you mean by #1? I honestly dislike how statblocks aren't very intuitive. You pretty much need someone to teach you how to read them.
And for #3, it's based on the iconic character. The paladin and rogue are preferred as a female because the iconics are female. I would have preferred second-person over third-person, but sadly this convention was kept to take consistent with 3.5e.
Lincoln Hills |
I doubt anybody's reading these - just letting their eyes rest while they decide what they'll add to the dogpile. Nevertheless:
1. Alternate racial favored class bonuses. (I think the base option, +1 skill pt or +1 hp, was a fine mechanic.)
2. Alternate racial traits. ("My dwarf is a dwarf who is differently dwarfy from those boring old dwarfy dwarfs!" Ugh.)
3. Instant-gratification spells (we have sliding scales for ability damage, degrees of fear, etc. - it's time for the same fail-multiple-saves-before-you're-totally-boned option to apply to petrification, domination and even disintegration... although some folks might prefer being totally disintegrated to the things that might happen halfway down that scale.)
Bandw2 |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I doubt anybody's reading these - just letting their eyes rest while they decide what they'll add to the dogpile. Nevertheless:
1. Alternate racial favored class bonuses. (I think the base option, +1 skill pt or +1 hp, was a fine mechanic.)
2. Alternate racial traits. ("My dwarf is a dwarf who is differently dwarfy from those boring old dwarfy dwarfs!" Ugh.)
3. Instant-gratification spells (we have sliding scales for ability damage, degrees of fear, etc. - it's time for the same fail-multiple-saves-before-you're-totally-boned option to apply to petrification, domination and even disintegration... although some folks might prefer being totally disintegrated to the things that might happen halfway down that scale.)
I've read all of them... some i don't understand.
like I don't mind Alternate racial traits, wish favored stuff were actually just more generic options.
Headfirst |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I don't mind Alternate racial traits, wish favored stuff were actually just more generic options.
My issue with alternate racial favored class bonuses is that 90% of them are absolute garbage (MUCH less useful than a hit point or skill point) and the other 10% are so monstrously advantageous that your build is basically a joke if you don't take advantage of them (bonus spells for spontaneous casters, etc).
kyrt-ryder |
Bandw2 wrote:I don't mind Alternate racial traits, wish favored stuff were actually just more generic options.My issue with racial traits is that 90% of them are absolute garbage (MUCH less useful than a hit point or skill point) or so monstrously advantageous that your build is basically a joke if you don't take advantage of them (bonus spells for spontaneous casters, etc).
That sounds like an issue with Pathfinder as a whole.
The only thing better than 90% garbage is base classes, and even those are in the 50/50 range.
Traits, Feats, Spells, Magic Items.......
Morgan Champion |
1) Rogues and ninjas. Replace with the thief class, which would specialize in disappearing and stealing stuff.
2) The existing feat system, which would be replaced with my Trait Point system. Weak feats would either be gotten rid of or converted into Traits.
3)The dumb rule that prestige classes don't get the two free spells per level that wizard levels do.
Cyrad RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16 |
My biggest problem with racial favored class bonuses is that it doesn't make much sense to me to lock the options based on race. I'm totally OK with there being a class-specific favored class bonus option, but why is it race specific? The bonuses almost never have anything to do with the race. It's also totally unsustainable, because you have to make new options for every race/class combination and every time a new class or race gets made. It's a mess.
On top of it, whether or not a race favors a class should depend on setting and inherit synergies, but racial favored class bonus is a setting neutral mechanic
This is why when I designed the artiforged class, I simply laid out alternate favored class options and say the player can choose whichever they want.
DungeonmasterCal |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I would immediately order that Paizo stop using the D&D 3.75 edition that they have been using and make them create their own unique rpg.
And lose a huge chunk of their fans and customer base, including me. I'd not buy into even a PF 2e. After over 30 years of gaming I've spent all the money I plan to spend on new editions. I'll keep supporting the current edition, but if it changes we'll just keep going with what we have.