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Homebrew and House Rules

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so this is a grousing thread... mostly save or suck I'd say... lol...

Dark Archive

Pretty much, that's why its title is left unfinished and its author finishes in the first post.


So many things I love and that I find integral to the feel of this game receiving so much dislike makes me a sad panda...

wraithstrike wrote:

Remove the "ally" FAQ

Remove the "manisfestations" FAQ
Remove the "take 10" FAQ.
Remove any future versions unless they are more detailed enough that at least 90% of the board understand the intent how to apply them to the game and/or errata is supplied that makes them more clear.

These three are good to go though.


See the reason I put what I put on the chopping block is because we're removing things, not replacing them. And those things just need to be removed rather than replaced with something else.

If it were something that we were replacing than it changes.

1) Vatican Casting

2) Ability Scores

3) Shaman


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Going by items that were so unpopular that they were left undeveloped:

1) Mythic tiers for player characters
2) Wordcasting (from Ultimage Magic)
3) Consolidate skills (from Pathfinder Unchained)

If any of these items were at all popular, there would have been follow-on products to make them usable with later published material.


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Unchained Eidolons. They are a terrible, lazy way to 'fix' something and tear a lot of flavor from the original Summoner.

The SLAs FAQ that took away using them to qualify for stuff because someone didn't want people to get into their precious Evangelist prestige class early.

Barbarian alignment restrictions.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Starfinder Maps Subscriber

Make everyone hug on the message boards!

They'd never hire me for a rules fix...

Hmm


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1) Classes and levels
2) Races (except human) and monsters
3) Treasure and magic

...welcome to a REALISTIC game!


Pathfinder Companion, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Why the shaman hate?

Anyway...

Leadership
Feat taxes
Monkey lunge (well, silly feats that do nothing)


HyperMissingno wrote:

See the reason I put what I put on the chopping block is because we're removing things, not replacing them. And those things just need to be removed rather than replaced with something else.

If it were something that we were replacing than it changes.

1) Vatican Casting

2) Ability Scores

3) Shaman

What about the Shaman needs to be replaced? What does it offer that the druid, witch, cleric, etc. don't?

But, following your interpretation that we are only removing things, and not replacing them, the things I'd remove would probably be

1)Full attacks
2)Traits
3)Humans/half-humans


Why do people so dislike half humans? I don't think I've ever played one. Why water down my elfiness? But still curious why they are so disliked?


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I can only choose 3 things? But but but...I have...so many things I need to cut from the game.

Guns (or at least the bit about touch AC)
Gunslingers (don't make guns so damn hard to use if you're going to have them and basically lock them behind a class)
Full caster (or more accurately 7-9th level spells)
Dazing Spell
Spell perfection
All the variant heritage Aazimar and Tiefling
Wealth being a second power track to XP by only having Automatic Bonus Progression as an option
XP - moving to a story based character advancement system exclusively
Magic item crafting as a means to increase effective wealth - instead it is an option which requires no character investment but saves you no money (but is still useful it you can't find the items your looking for)
A total rework of Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate and how they work

By the gods I could go on....

But for all the things I don't like about the game (a lot of it is inherited from 3.5) I still love this game and have a so much fun playing.

I just have a few pages of house rules for when I GM ;)


taks wrote:
Why the shaman hate?

It's a flavorless upgrade to both Oracle and Witch, two full caster classes that didn't need upgrades. It's an oracle that gets to mysteries and can swap one out each day while also being a witch with every spell on their list, the ability to burn bad spells, and they don't loose all their spells permanently if their familiar dies.

Also note my post at the start of the thread where I listed it as something to remove. I want the class gone. Its "replacements" were already in the game when it butted its head in there.


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1. All classes outside of the core classes, plus the Paladin & Bard (I'm of the opinion that the vast majority of characters could be made with the mechanics of what's left with a bit of reflavoring, and some added mechanics to further diversify the remaining classes).

2. Vast majority of feats (this would require inprovements on / additions to the remaining feats so that's sort of cheating, but...oh well).

2.5 non-options like power attack, deadly aim and combat expertise. They have no place in an abstract system as they are, and present false choices to those that take them doing nothing but adding complexity for no depth.

3. Vancian casting in favor of spheres of power. You get a better feeling of character progression and "character" when your character is built towards something, rather than just having everything. Plus it lets casters play like casters at level 1 instead of asking them to wait until level 3.


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1) Trolls from the boards
2) Toxicity from the boards
3) Flame wars from the boards


A more honest try:

Witches.
Guns.
A bajillion examples of oddball races specifically for player use.


Sissyl wrote:

A more honest try:

Witches.
Guns.
A bajillion examples of oddball races specifically for player use.

now are we talking removed entirely or remade?


As it is, the witch needs to go. I have GMed witches enough, and I have no desire to play one, ever. Guns don't fit the basic assumptions of the game mechanically. The freak show wannabes are annoying enough, and THERE IS ALWAYS AT LEAST ONE in every group. These things force me to be the EVUL GM and TAKE AWAY the stuff that ALL PLAYERS HAVE A RIGHT TO PLAY in whatever campaign there is.

If it gets remade, that is something I will have to decide on then.


OK well its all irrelevant anyways I already ended everything back on the first page.


Sissyl wrote:

As it is, the witch needs to go. I have GMed witches enough, and I have no desire to play one, ever. Guns don't fit the basic assumptions of the game mechanically. The freak show wannabes are annoying enough, and THERE IS ALWAYS AT LEAST ONE in every group. These things force me to be the EVUL GM and TAKE AWAY the stuff that ALL PLAYERS HAVE A RIGHT TO PLAY in whatever campaign there is.

If it gets remade, that is something I will have to decide on then.

Actually, I played a Western styled game with Guns Everywhere option (basically, advanced firearms are readily available, and firearms are considered simmple weapons), and it was a hoot OK corral vs orcs was great.


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I wouldn't cut stuff as much as I would remade/revamp some of the rules:

1) Prestige classes; most of them could be reworked into archetypes, while the others could be reworked into hybrid classes:
- Arcane Archer: Magus (Eldritch Archer is close to it)
- Arcane Trickster: either Magus or a new Rogue/Wizard hybrid class
- Assassin: Rogue or Slayer
- Dragon Disciple: Sorcerer or Bloodrager
- Duelist: Swashbuckler
- Eldritch Knight: Magus
- Loremaster: Bard
- Mystic Theurge: new Cleric/Wizard hybrid class
- Pathfinder Chronicler: Bard
- Shadowdancer: Bard or Sorcerer
- Battle Herald: Bard or Skald
- Holy Vindicator: Cleric, Paladin or Warpriest
- Horizon Walker: Druid or Ranger
- Master Chymist: Alchemist
- Master Spy: Rogue or Vigilante
- Nature Warden: Druid, Ranger or Hunter
- Rage Prophet: Bloodrager or Warpriest
- Stalwart Defender: Fighter

2) Improved/Greater feats; merge them into the primary feat, so that the feat increases in power as you level up.

3) Fighter; I'd revamp the entire class to make it more specialized:
- Bravery being better
- No more getting several weapon groups; pick one group and stick with it
- Have less bonus feats and replace those with special weapon-based features, similar to what the archetypes often substitute.
- More skill points
- More skills like Perception and Knowledge


JiCi wrote:

I wouldn't cut stuff as much as I would remade/revamp some of the rules:

1) Prestige classes; most of them could be reworked into archetypes, while the others could be reworked into hybrid classes:
- Arcane Archer: Magus (Eldritch Archer is close to it)
- Arcane Trickster: either Magus or a new Rogue/Wizard hybrid class
- Assassin: Rogue or Slayer
- Dragon Disciple: Sorcerer or Bloodrager
- Duelist: Swashbuckler
- Eldritch Knight: Magus
- Loremaster: Bard
- Mystic Theurge: new Cleric/Wizard hybrid class
- Pathfinder Chronicler: Bard
- Shadowdancer: Bard or Sorcerer
- Battle Herald: Bard or Skald
- Holy Vindicator: Cleric, Paladin or Warpriest
- Horizon Walker: Druid or Ranger
- Master Chymist: Alchemist
- Master Spy: Rogue or Vigilante
- Nature Warden: Druid, Ranger or Hunter
- Rage Prophet: Bloodrager or Warpriest
- Stalwart Defender: Fighter

2) Improved/Greater feats; merge them into the primary feat, so that the feat increases in power as you level up.

3) Fighter; I'd revamp the entire class to make it more specialized:
- Bravery being better
- No more getting several weapon groups; pick one group and stick with it
- Have less bonus feats and replace those with special weapon-based features, similar to what the archetypes often substitute.
- More skill points
- More skills like Perception and Knowledge

only thing I don't agree with you on is the fewer weapon groups.


Vidmaster7 wrote:
only thing I don't agree with you on is the fewer weapon groups.

The fighter can currently get Weapon Training for 4 weapon groups. The problem is that your typical fighter will have one primary melee weapon, one primary ranged weapon and probably one backup melee weapon. Even then, your fighter will focus on either melee or ranged combat, making the other weapons very situational.

Rare are the times where a fighter will have a longsword, longbow, longspear and short sword, because most fighters will favor a specific fighting style instead of having a weapon for "every" situation.


That does remind me of my first character and the weapons he carried. A warhammer, shortsword, and a glaive. Didn't want to get too close? Glaive. Got too close? Shortsword. Got too close but the thing had a shell or armor? Warhammer.*

*I didn't know what damage reduction was, but figured it made more sense to break the shell of the GIANT BEETLES than it did to trying cutting or stabbing them.


1) All effects that neutralize a creature longer than 1 round, without a save. For stun, frightened, paralyzed, petrified etc. there should be a new save each round. The only effect without should be 'death'.

2) Initiative in its current way. Nothing breaks immersion more than a start of a battle where someone has to collect and sort numbers first. There are a few possible fixes to that, but it should be alright in the first place.

3) Leadership as a feat. There could be some mechanic for cohort and followers, but it shouldn't be a feat.

I wouldn't touch races and classes. If someone wants to play an Aasimar gunslinger, I'd roll my eyes and let him. No matter what a single player does, it can be countered - and as a GM, you are not set on a single approach, you can try new stuff all the time. Only if a group develops great synergy, it becomes really tough to challenge them.

When it comes to game systems, I don't know all those optional things well enough to judge them.


1: linear martials
2: Fighter, Rogue, Monk, Barbarian, Cavalier, Samurai, Ninja, Swashbuckker, Gunslinger (to be replaced with a flexible powerful hybrid class that can fill any of those niches)
3: Magic items as a power track/dependence on magic items.

Dark Archive

I wouldn't cut them per se, but they would be so heavily revised that they would almost be unrecognizable:

1) Skill system: eliminate scaling values, lock skills in with class function (no Wizards who climb around better than Rogues with +X Climb spell).
2) Spells overhaul (no +X spells, no DC vs Save paradigm). Big six (which are just perm spell boosts via magic items).
3) Magic items as spells/crafting magic items with X spell. Magic items would not replicate spell function and crafting via place this spell + cash would go bye-bye.

3 are really not enough, let's start with 10 and add from there....


1. Remove the skills system entirely. Specific classes can have bonuses on relevant skill checks, but there's no generic Stealth skill, no Knowledge (Arcane) skill, etc. Skill checks are handled by ability score checks and GM judgment. Here's how every Pathfinder game I've ever played goes:

Roll a skill check. Oh, you don't have any skill ranks in that? You fail.

Or:

Roll a skill check. Oh, you have ranks in that? You automatically succeed.

Or:

Roll a skill check. You rolled a 27? Well, this is really, really hard so the DC is 30.

Replace the skill system with a giant section explaining how to GM better.

2. Make spellcasting take multiple rounds depending on the spell level.

3. Eliminate spells that infringe on role protection.


Raving Nerd wrote:

1. Remove the skills system entirely. Specific classes can have bonuses on relevant skill checks, but there's no generic Stealth skill, no Knowledge (Arcane) skill, etc. Skill checks are handled by ability score checks and GM judgment. Here's how every Pathfinder game I've ever played goes:

Roll a skill check. Oh, you don't have any skill ranks in that? You fail.

Or:

Roll a skill check. Oh, you have ranks in that? You automatically succeed.

Or:

Roll a skill check. You rolled a 27? Well, this is really, really hard so the DC is 30.

Replace the skill system with a giant section explaining how to GM better.

Sounds like you may have brushed against some bad (at handling skills) GMs my friend.

Granted in my own game skills are simple trained vs untrained, with special abilities granted as levels rise.


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Let's see, things that I would remove...

1. The Big Six magical items (replaced with a feat-like system that imitates item bonuses)
2. The entire spell-slot based casting system (and it gets replaced with Spheres of Power)
2. Touch Attack Guns

Luckily for me, my houserules already do all of these things! I complete the work in record time and get a bonus!


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Learn how to make brownies to welcome newcomers to the boards since Liz Courts is leaving.


Has she been ejected from the court?


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1) Feat chains

2) The big six

3) Linear martials


kyrt-ryder wrote:
Has she been ejected from the court?

No, just moving on to another job.


1) The mundane levels magic has reached and give back to spells, magic items and such the wondrous feel they should have.

2) The thousands of different weapons (I'd group them all into categories and give simple rules to add a number of qualities to the specific weapon you choose, and some examples; then, creating a new kind of weapon would fall into those rules, without having wasted supplements' pages on list of either dull/useless or overpowered new weapons).

3) Remove hit points and change with health levels and damage-soaking, with certain attacks ignoring certain soaks (a coup de grace with a dagger to the troath would ignore soaking from armor, unless it grants a force effect or whatever).


Matrix Dragon wrote:

Let's see, things that I would remove...

1. The Big Six magical items (replaced with a feat-like system that imitates item bonuses)
3. Touch Attack Guns

1) If you have to take the feats then this is even worse than the Big 6.

3) Didn't guns punch through armor though?


Azten wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:

Let's see, things that I would remove...

1. The Big Six magical items (replaced with a feat-like system that imitates item bonuses)
3. Touch Attack Guns

1) If you have to take the feats then this is even worse than the Big 6.

3) Didn't guns punch through armor though?

1) seems like it

3) only some armor. Bulletproof armor was a thing.


Azten wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:
stuff
3) Didn't guns punch through armor though?

>nah<


Azten wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:

Let's see, things that I would remove...

1. The Big Six magical items (replaced with a feat-like system that imitates item bonuses)
3. Touch Attack Guns

1) If you have to take the feats then this is even worse than the Big 6.

3) Didn't guns punch through armor though?

1) I said "feat-like", not "feats". Each character gets one for free at every level, in addition to everything their characters normally get. Except for their missing big-six items of course. ;)

3) Yea, but so can many other weapons in the right circumstances. I see no reason why guns should operate by a completely different system than everything else simply because they are guns. It really destroys my suspension of disbelief.


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1. I'd give the Witch more Hexes to choose from.
2. I'd give the Oracle more curses to choose from.
3. Make offers to buy the rights to certain classes from different 3PP publishers. There's some darn good work out there.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

1) Any and all debuffs that don't allow a saving throw. I'm looking at you, witch.

2) The Big 6

3) Classes that can easily nova.


DungeonmasterCal wrote:


3. Make offers to buy the rights to certain classes from different 3PP publishers. There's some darn good work out there.

Such as? I've never used 3pp classes.

Liberty's Edge

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SheepishEidolon wrote:
I wouldn't touch races and classes. If someone wants to play an Aasimar gunslinger, I'd roll my eyes and let him.

Awwww....


Níðhöggr wrote:
DungeonmasterCal wrote:


3. Make offers to buy the rights to certain classes from different 3PP publishers. There's some darn good work out there.
Such as? I've never used 3pp classes.

Such as about 90% of the Volume of Work from Dreamscarred Press and Super/Rogue Genius Games.

Dark Archive

1.) Get rid of most Grousing threads, like this one.
2.) Get rid of all political threads.
3.) Add a larger and more robust cast of smurf alias pictures for profiles.

DONE!!!!


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kyrt-ryder wrote:
Níðhöggr wrote:
DungeonmasterCal wrote:


3. Make offers to buy the rights to certain classes from different 3PP publishers. There's some darn good work out there.
Such as? I've never used 3pp classes.
Such as about 90% of the Volume of Work from Dreamscarred Press and Super/Rogue Genius Games.

I would never, ever trust Paizo with those classes. They're more likely to ruin them than leave them alone.


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Azten wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:
Níðhöggr wrote:
DungeonmasterCal wrote:


3. Make offers to buy the rights to certain classes from different 3PP publishers. There's some darn good work out there.
Such as? I've never used 3pp classes.
Such as about 90% of the Volume of Work from Dreamscarred Press and Super/Rogue Genius Games.
I would never, ever trust Paizo with those classes. They're more likely to ruin them than leave them alone.

You raise a very valid point. The only reason it would be nice for Paizo to own them would be to allow them into PFS, if Paizo were to do that on their own [perhaps sell a license to PFS players to use material from certain 3PP publishers?] that would be far better than them gaining ownership of it.


Níðhöggr wrote:
DungeonmasterCal wrote:


3. Make offers to buy the rights to certain classes from different 3PP publishers. There's some darn good work out there.
Such as? I've never used 3pp classes.

As Kyrt-Ryder said, about 90% of the stuff Dreamscarred Press and Rogue Genius Games put out. Though Azten raises a good point, as well, but if I had any say so they'd have to allowed as is, with no tinkering.

A few of the classes, for example would Kobold Press' Savant, Trickster, and Priest, The classes from Path of War and Psionics by Dreamscarred Press, and several of the classes from Rogue Genius Games. Not all, but there are some good ones that aren't coming to mind at the moment (pain meds for a fractured tibia interfering with data retrieval at the moment).


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I'd also remove the monk from the Core classes, as it sticks out like a sore thumb among the more "European" feeling classes. I'd put out an Oriental Adventures style book with it in it, instead.

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