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Also, what are you building that you require that many sources that it becomes unmanageable? That screams more of either a wild exaggeration or that you want to show off your leet gaming skillz too.
"Unmanageable" would be an overstatement. But if you're using more than 5 or 6 books for one PC, and you can only pull up one at a time on a slow tablet to show the GM you own it, then a full audit at the start of the session becomes annoyingly time consuming. And not everyone remembers the source for everything on their PC off the top of their head.
Non-hypothetical example: If someone wanted to audit my level 2 witch this way, I'd have to show them that I own the following books:
- Advanced Player's Guide - Witch class and feats
- Ultimate Magic - patron (and hex? don't remember)
- Animal Archive or Familiar Folio (don't remember which) - familiar
- Ultimate Campaign - trait
- ??? - I know I took a trait from another book on this PC, and I don't remember which book off the top of my head. I'm sure if I had the character sheet and my tablet in front of me, I could figure it out pretty quickly, though it might take checking the srd on my phone to remind me which book the trait is in.
And that's just a level 2 PC that's relatively straightforward. I think I may have only spells from the Core Rulebook and APG for now (I'd have to double check), but I'm sure that'll change at higher levels.
Again, I'm just saying that a full audit up front is a waste of time. If the GM wants to know why my witch has such a high UMD score, I'll be happy to pull out Ultimate Campaign and show them the trait that lets me use intelligence instead of charisma for that skill, which both shows them the rule and confirms that I own the book.
EDIT: Well, I was wrong. I just checked the character sheet (since this PC is in a PBP right now, so I have it electronically available even though I'm not at home). This PC uses about 2 or 3 more books than I listed above. Thanks to the Additional Traits feat, I actually have traits from 4 different books on this PC. I also have a spell that I don't remember what book it's in, and a magic item from Ultimate Equipment (though it may have originally been in one of the books above before UE - I honestly don't remember).
Again, that's just a level 2 PC. I know that I own all the appropriate books and bring them to every game day and convention table, even if I'm not playing this character.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Your condescension is vastly unhelpful.I was unaware it was not possible to build a wizard past level 6 with just the core rule book.
Please tell me more.
And your comments contribute nothing to the conversation. See? I can make snarky comments too.
It's ok Disk, that you can't understand calling out the error in his post.
Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Tampere
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Also, what are you building that you require that many sources that it becomes unmanageable?Almost any given wizard of level 7+?I was unaware it was not possible to build a wizard past level 6 with just the core rule book.
Please tell me more.
It's not impossible, but given the versatility using splatbooks gives a wizard (not to mention clerics or druids), new splats coming out constantly, and there being a half-dozen new creative or versatile or just powerful spells in each of those for a given caster class, there sure is a lot of incentive to start using additional sources.
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Also, what are you building that you require that many sources that it becomes unmanageable?Almost any given wizard of level 7+?I was unaware it was not possible to build a wizard past level 6 with just the core rule book.
Please tell me more.
Hey, Dorothy, the Lion and Tin Man are a bit upset about what you're doing to Scarecrow there. He's weeping in the corner sobbing something about "I don't want to be his strawman".
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Hey, Dorothy, the Lion and Tin Man are a bit upset about what you're doing to Scarecrow there. He's weeping in the corner sobbing something about "I don't want to be his strawman".Also, what are you building that you require that many sources that it becomes unmanageable?Almost any given wizard of level 7+?I was unaware it was not possible to build a wizard past level 6 with just the core rule book.
Please tell me more.
*pats Tim gently on the head* It's ok Timmy I know your own strawman of a wizard 'requiring' unmanageable resources scared you. I'm sure my pointing that out to you must have traumatized you so much that you thought you saw another.
That's called 'projection'. Try looking it up sometime.
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we need the auditing process to be sure people buy the books
Of course if you buy a lot of books we're going to make sure the auditing process takes the entire game.
The solution is obviously not to use so many books
Which means you may as well not buy quite so many boo...
Hey wait...
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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It's not impossible, but given the versatility using splatbooks gives a wizard (not to mention clerics or druids), new splats coming out constantly, and there being a half-dozen new creative or versatile or just powerful spells in each of those for a given caster class, there sure is a lot of incentive to start using additional sources.
I don't deny there's a lot of incentive to use a ton of splatbooks. Ksenia uses 19 (well, 18 once I get rid of the stupid war hat of errata nerf) If you give into that incentive, then you bring the material of those books. It's your choice.
To say it is not possible? Well that's a fallacy. You can ask TimD about those.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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we need the auditing process to be sure people buy the books
Of course if you buy a lot of books we're going to make sure the auditing process takes the entire game.
The solution is obviously not to use so many books
Which means you may as well not buy quite so many boo...
Hey wait...
now see TimD? This is a strawman "using an argument no one is making."
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now see TimD? This is a strawman "using an argument no one is making."we need the auditing process to be sure people buy the books
Of course if you buy a lot of books we're going to make sure the auditing process takes the entire game.
The solution is obviously not to use so many books
Which means you may as well not buy quite so many boo...
Hey wait...
Arguable
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Our PFS group meets at a local RPG store, so he generally has all the books there for sale. Our wonderful proprietor, Trent at Dangerous Gentlemen in Longview, WA, allows us to "use" the books to check up on a rule (or five) if we are the GM, so we don't have to keep asking for the reference. As long as we are gentle and assure the book is still ready for sale, he really doesn't mind. Of course, we try to buy as many products from him as possible!
My husband has been role-playing for 30 years, I have have been rpging with him for 22 years. I'm the local Agent and GM, he's my 2nd GM, and we usually have a 3rd and 4th on-call. None of us have ever denied a player's character because we didn't know it; we simply ask for confirmation of questionable things. The best part of gaming PFS is learning new things from each other and the game.
Roll On!
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That's called 'projection'. Try looking it up sometime.
No need, you're providing a fine example :)
now see TimD? This is a strawman "using an argument no one is making."
No worries, you've given an excellent example already.
not possible to build a wizard past level 6 with just the core rule book.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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That's called 'projection'. Try looking it up sometime.No need, you're providing a fine example :)
now see TimD? This is a strawman "using an argument no one is making."No worries, you've given an excellent example already.
not possible to build a wizard past level 6 with just the core rule book.
Quoting me quoting you doesn't change that you provided the strawman timmy. It's ok. I understand you can't argue the merits of a point.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Arguablenow see TimD? This is a strawman "using an argument no one is making."we need the auditing process to be sure people buy the books
Of course if you buy a lot of books we're going to make sure the auditing process takes the entire game.
The solution is obviously not to use so many books
Which means you may as well not buy quite so many boo...
Hey wait...
Unless you can point me to where anyone's made this argument, I stand by BNW making strawmen. Timmy should take notes.
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And your comments contribute nothing to the conversation. See? I can make snarky comments too.
It's ok Disk, that you can't understand calling out the error in his post.
There's a difference between making a snarky comment, and remarking that one has crossed a line and is no longer discussing in good faith.
I would suggest you step away from the discussion and take a bit to cool off. You've ceased to contribute in any meaningful way, beyond making yourself look like the south end of a north-bound horse.
Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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Well, this has gotten so far off topic that I'm not sure anyone remembers the topic any more.
Does anyone see any reason why we shouldn't just ask the moderators to close this thread?
Yeah I want to ask why can't you print out the paperwork. I want clear about this earlier apparently you missed the point.
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