[Official] PFS2 Guide to Organized Play Feedback Thread v5.X (November 2023 / Lorespire Update)


Pathfinder Society

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Paizo Employee 5/55/5 * Organized Play Coordinator

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Greetings Pathfinders,

The Guide to Organized Play has been updated and is available at its new home: the Lorespire Wiki.

Please use this thread to leave feedback on the Guide itself. To facilitate our use of this thread, do not use this thread for program implementation/campaign rules discussion. We will delete off topic posts. If you wish to comment on an aspect of the Pathfinder Society (2nd edition) play experience, please start new threads as applicable.

*** Venture-Lieutenant, Florida–West Palm Beach

Are the new Pathfinder Provisions that are going into effect on the 15th published yet? I couldn't find them on the website

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 * Organized Play Coordinator

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Farabor wrote:
Are the new Pathfinder Provisions that are going into effect on the 15th published yet? I couldn't find them on the website

Yes.

I think there'll be an update to the "Before the Adventure" on or before the 15th as well to point to that page instead of the current table.


Just because I'm curious, why did it go down in the first place? On the discord server the ping for this stated that these guides had to be reconstructed from internet archive backups, so I'm just wondering why it wasn't an easy copy paste.

*

The Guide only mentions two ancestry feats that are changed. Will more be added as time goes on, or are the only ones that will be corrected? Looking at the racial weapon feats, specifically.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

The remaster guide mentions Pathfinder Training being removed. Does that include the option to build a Field Commissioned agent?

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 * Organized Play Coordinator

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PMSchulz wrote:
The Guide only mentions two ancestry feats that are changed. Will more be added as time goes on, or are the only ones that will be corrected? Looking at the racial weapon feats, specifically.

More will be added as we discover them (such as through this thread). I wasn't aware of the weapon feats until late last week.

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 * Organized Play Coordinator

SirGeshko wrote:
The remaster guide mentions Pathfinder Training being removed. Does that include the option to build a Field Commissioned agent?

Yes.

**

Is the Tiefling's Fiendish Strikes feat subject to the same change as Aasimar Celestial Strikes?

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 * Organized Play Coordinator

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Dubious Scholar wrote:
Is the Tiefling's Fiendish Strikes feat subject to the same change as Aasimar Celestial Strikes?

Huh, yeah, definitely should be. Dunno why I didn't check to see if there was a tiefling equivalent.

Wayfinders 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Contributor

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Thank you. My gnomes are so happy with this clarification!

LORESPIRE REMASTER PAGE wrote:
The gnome feat Burrow Elocutionist (CRB) has been removed. Characters with this feat replace it with Animal Elocutionist (Player Core) at 1st level. Characters that took the 5th-level version of Animal Elocutionist (CRB) replace that feat with another feat of their choice immediately.

**

On another note - since going forward Witches will have to use the remaster rules, how does this interact with the boons for rare witch patrons? Since they're missing features present in remaster patrons I'm not sure if they would fall under the same header as Runelords (which I assume is because of spell school dependence) until updated.

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 * Organized Play Coordinator

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Dubious Scholar wrote:
On another note - since going forward Witches will have to use the remaster rules, how does this interact with the boons for rare witch patrons?

Just fine. Those patrons are still legal choices, and the sanctioning for Player Core should answer some more familiar questions, if you catch my drift ;)

That's actually a good point I should make generally: the sanctioning for Player Core and GM Core will have a ton of more specific information pertaining to the contents of those books (Player Core especially is like 3 pages long). They're really companion documents to the Remaster wiki page, so it's highly likely that a lot of questions people have now will be answered on Wednesday!

4/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, California—Sacramento

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Remaster Wiki wrote:
Until a full list of deity sanctifications is published, any deity without published sanctification is treated as “can sanctify to holy.” Any champion may select any of the three Causes of Good from the Core Rulebook (Paladin, Liberator or Redeemer) regardless of deity.

Because I know there will be people who will try to pull it, can this be changed to specify only deities who don't have an evil component in the original source?

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 * Organized Play Coordinator

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avagdu wrote:
Remaster Wiki wrote:
Until a full list of deity sanctifications is published, any deity without published sanctification is treated as “can sanctify to holy.” Any champion may select any of the three Causes of Good from the Core Rulebook (Paladin, Liberator or Redeemer) regardless of deity.
Because I know there will be people who will try to pull it, can this be changed to specify only deities who don't have an evil component in the original source?

No. But I think you'll see some deities show up on the banned list on Wednesday that weren't there before.

**

That's good to hear. I'll just have to wait for Wednesday for the update then.

Plenty of time to roll a new Witch between that posting and a game starting that evening, I'm sure.

**

Ah, there's also Enforced Order from Aasimar, which is the Lawful version of those feats. Doesn't seem to be a Chaotic equivalent on Tiefling though.


Can you confirm that Tengu and Ratfolk are still freely available as options for Society play?

In August the Blog announced this was the case. However the updated Lorespire guide to Society play says:

Select an Ancestry

Ancestry follows the normal rules in the Core Rulebook, with minor modifications to adapt to the languages of Golarion. The Pathfinder Society does not permit Half-elves or Half-orcs of ancestries other than Human. In addition to the common ancestries in the Core Rulebook, characters also have access to the following ancestries provide the player owns the corresponding book:

Leshy (from the Lost Omens Character Guide)
Kobold (from the Advanced Player's Guide )
Orc (from the Advanced Player's Guide )

Uncommon Ancestries

Because your ancestry is one of the first things you pick about your character, and it is not possible to retrain your ancestry as you might retrain other options, the only way to select uncommon or rarer ancestries is with a boon that allows you to create a new character of this ancestry.

... so no Uncommon without a boon... but there is no boon for Tengu or Ratfolk.

Wayfinders 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Contributor

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They had to rebuild the guide from prior backups and likely missed that detail. Yes, once an ancestry has been announced as always available, it remains available. You can still make your tengu and ratfolk friends!

Grand Archive 4/5 ****

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Perfnord wrote:

Can you confirm that Tengu and Ratfolk are still freely available as options for Society play?

In August the Blog announced this was the case. However the updated Lorespire guide to Society play says:

Select an Ancestry

Ancestry follows the normal rules in the Core Rulebook, with minor modifications to adapt to the languages of Golarion. The Pathfinder Society does not permit Half-elves or Half-orcs of ancestries other than Human. In addition to the common ancestries in the Core Rulebook, characters also have access to the following ancestries provide the player owns the corresponding book:

Leshy (from the Lost Omens Character Guide)
Kobold (from the Advanced Player's Guide )
Orc (from the Advanced Player's Guide )

Uncommon Ancestries

Because your ancestry is one of the first things you pick about your character, and it is not possible to retrain your ancestry as you might retrain other options, the only way to select uncommon or rarer ancestries is with a boon that allows you to create a new character of this ancestry.

... so no Uncommon without a boon... but there is no boon for Tengu or Ratfolk.

That is correct, Tengu and Ratfolk are still always available, that page is being updated, but the update is caught up in the other updates needed for tomorrow.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

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Alex Speidel wrote:
Dubious Scholar wrote:
Is the Tiefling's Fiendish Strikes feat subject to the same change as Aasimar Celestial Strikes?
Huh, yeah, definitely should be. Dunno why I didn't check to see if there was a tiefling equivalent.
Lorespire Remaster page wrote:

The aasimar feat Celestial Strikes and the tiefling feat Fiendish Strikes are no longer legal for play. Nephilim characters with either feat must retrain it for another ancestry feat at 13th level or lower.

The word Nephilim in that sentence feels confusing as that new ancestry could never actually take any of those feats, suggesting the removal of the first word in that second sentence.

5/5 **

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

What is the correct approach to the Pathfinder Core Rulebook errata?

For example:
In the current remaster guide on spells, if it has a different name you can use the original version. The specific example given relating to produce flame is:

Example: the produce flame spell has not been reprinted, but ignition takes its place thematically. Characters may learn either spell anytime they would learn a new spell, and could learn both spells if they chose.

However in the new Core Rulebook errata it states:

Page 360: In the produce flame cantrip, replace "fire damage equal to 1d4 + your spellcasting ability modifier" with "2d4 fire damage".

As the standard position on errata and organised play is that you apply the errata, does this mean that those remaster changes that have now been posted as errata to the original ruleset (Core Rulebook, Book of Magic, Dark Archive) also need to be taken into account?

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 * Organized Play Coordinator

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Quote:
As the standard position on errata and organised play is that you apply the errata, does this mean that those remaster changes that have now been posted as errata to the original ruleset (Core Rulebook, Book of Magic, Dark Archive) also need to be taken into account?

Yes. When I wrote the first sentence, I was not aware that the design team intended to issue errata to bring cantrips in line more universally, because we hadn't asked them. You can still learn both produce flame and ignition, but I'm not sure why you'd want to at this point.

**

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FYI, https://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety links to the old domain still on the Guide to Organized Play link. Not directly an issue on the guide itself, but.

Second Seekers (Jadnura)

I believe a few versatile heritages used to be always available, but aren't currently listed in the guide. Off the top of my head this was Changeling, Aasimar, and Tiefling.

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 * Organized Play Coordinator

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A new version of the Pathfinder Society Guide to Organized Play (v5.04) was just published!

Major changes:
- Pregens do get Pathfinder Provisions
- Removed restriction that half-orcs and half-elves also be half-human.

See changelog for complete details.

Links:
Guide: https://bit.ly/PFS2_Guide
Change log: https://bit.ly/PFS2_changelog
Single page layout: https://bit.ly/PFS2_onepage

Links to the change log and single-page layout are available at the bottom of all navigation pages.

Dark Archive 1/5

Felix Cohen wrote:
I believe a few versatile heritages used to be always available, but aren't currently listed in the guide. Off the top of my head this was Changeling, Aasimar, and Tiefling.

That information has moved under Player Core sanctioning in Character Options:

Character Options wrote:

Pathfinder Player Core

All Pathfinder agents have access to the following Uncommon options:
Ancestries and Heritages: changeling and nephilim versatile heritages (pages 76-79).


Darafern wrote:

That information has moved under Player Core sanctioning in Character Options:

Character Options wrote:

Pathfinder Player Core

All Pathfinder agents have access to the following Uncommon options:
Ancestries and Heritages: changeling and nephilim versatile heritages (pages 76-79).
Character Options also wrote:

Pathfinder Player Core

The nephilim trait is interchangeable with either the aasimar or tiefling trait and vice versa, but aasimar characters may not treat that trait as interchangeable with the tiefling trait (or vice versa).


Citation link not working


Are “alternative ancestry boosts” now legal? The guide currently still refers to the CRB.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

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Hamsterpillar wrote:
Are “alternative ancestry boosts” now legal? The guide currently still refers to the CRB.

They are a core rule, not an optional one, and they are also in the latest CRB printing.

So yes.


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FLite wrote:
Hamsterpillar wrote:
Are “alternative ancestry boosts” now legal? The guide currently still refers to the CRB.

They are a core rule, not an optional one, and they are also in the latest CRB printing.

So yes.

That got me curious about how that rule was presented in the Player Core 1 versus the CRB. It looks like they are identical except for the conversion from "ability" boosts and flaws to "attribute" boosts and flaws.

CRB, pg. 26 wrote:

ALTERNATE ANCESTRY BOOSTS

The ability boosts and flaws listed in each ancestry represent general trends or help guide players to create the kinds of characters from that ancestry most likely to pursue the life of an adventurer. However, ancestries aren’t a monolith. You always have the option to replace your ancestry’s listed ability boosts and ability flaws entirely and instead select two free ability boosts when creating your character.
PC1, pg. 24 wrote:

ALTERNATE ANCESTRY BOOSTS

The attribute boosts and flaws listed in each ancestry represent general trends or help guide players to create the kinds of characters from that ancestry most likely to pursue the life of an adventurer. However, ancestries aren’t a monolith. You always have the option to replace your ancestry’s listed attribute boosts and attribute flaws entirely and instead select two free attribute boosts when creating your character.


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Thanks!


Would it make sense to also add Material Component Pouch to the Withdrawn Items table?

Grand Archive 4/5 ****

Outl wrote:

Would it make sense to also add Material Component Pouch to the Withdrawn Items table?

I think it would.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

The religion section still talks about deities that require Evil followers.


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With the update to the downtime rules, is it possible to still learn a spell during downtime? Or has that been completely removed from the downtime rules?

Grand Archive 4/5 ****

Hero_Donnel wrote:
With the update to the downtime rules, is it possible to still learn a spell during downtime? Or has that been completely removed from the downtime rules?

Learn a spell is (and always has been) an exploration activity, not a downtime one. It was never in the downtime rules. (Unless you use magical shorthand, in which case the rules are unchanged.)

5/55/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Ohio—Cleveland

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thistledown wrote:
The religion section still talks about deities that require Evil followers.

Sure does! FYI, the glyph icon next to the Religion header means 'the Guide Team knows this section still needs more attention post-Remaster.'

If you hover over the icon, there's a short explanation, and it's also a link to the Remaster page "Work in Progress" section with a bit fuller discussion.

It doesn't hurt to remind us, though! Just wanted to be sure folks are aware of what the icon means. Thanks!

Second Seekers (Jadnura) 1/5 5/55/5

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Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

Question...from Space!
(Not to clog up your landlubber thread, only I just followed the link from Alex's post, and I didn't see a corresponding thread for Starfinder questions in the Starfinder Society sub-forum...)

Sorry if I've missed this already being brought up, but - the Starfinder Guide no longer seems to have tables showing ACP Boons by faction and required reputation tier; nor can I find the section where the individual boons are described.
Are those bits gone now, or am I just blind? If the former, is the idea that people can just look at the boons for purchase under the Boons tab in My Org Play?

5/55/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Ohio—Cleveland

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Kishmo wrote:

Question...from Space!

(Not to clog up your landlubber thread, only I just followed the link from Alex's post, and I didn't see a corresponding thread for Starfinder questions in the Starfinder Society sub-forum...)

Sorry if I've missed this already being brought up, but - the Starfinder Guide no longer seems to have tables showing ACP Boons by faction and required reputation tier; nor can I find the section where the individual boons are described.
Are those bits gone now, or am I just blind? If the former, is the idea that people can just look at the boons for purchase under the Boons tab in My Org Play?

TL;dr: AcP boon tables & full texts were removed from the Starfinder Guide, but you are correct that we ought to be able to (easily) see that info. I will work on that, but it might take a minute.

Fuller version: You're not missing it, the list of Starfinder AcP boons was removed.

Ideally, neither Guide would post copies of the full text of AcP boons, since that's an excellent way to introduce errors, text that is not synchronized, etc. (which is not ideal). But also, it's obviously good to have the info available.

The last time we talked in detail about it, the plan was for the AcP boon store to be the home of the full text of the boons. If nothing else, that's going to take some reworking on the tech side (which is the extent of my knowledge of it). I do not have any info about how that interacts with the bigger project of transitioning the whole of paizo.com to a new system (as others announced), but I can only imagine it's a complicating factor, on top of where things are prioritized to begin with (which I likewise have no info on).

But [1] that may have changed since one or two websites have gone away things have changed since the last time we talked about it; and [2] "ideally" & "in the long run" do not change the need for some easier reference now & in the meantime.

Full disclosure: there's a bunch of work yet to do incorporating the PFS2 Remaster into the Guide. That, plus needing to have the conversations, plus the holiday season means it does not seem likely to happen in the next few weeks. Definitely something I will keep working on, though. And you never know; it could end up being easier than I fear to make it happen.

Perhaps an older but not too old version of the SF Guide would be an ok Supplemental stand-in for the time being? Not a perfect solution and not 100% guaranteed to match up, but I think those Materials are out there.

5/55/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Ohio—Cleveland

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Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
Alex Speidel wrote:
Dubious Scholar wrote:
Is the Tiefling's Fiendish Strikes feat subject to the same change as Aasimar Celestial Strikes?
Huh, yeah, definitely should be. Dunno why I didn't check to see if there was a tiefling equivalent.
Lorespire Remaster page wrote:

The aasimar feat Celestial Strikes and the tiefling feat Fiendish Strikes are no longer legal for play. Nephilim characters with either feat must retrain it for another ancestry feat at 13th level or lower.

The word Nephilim in that sentence feels confusing as that new ancestry could never actually take any of those feats, suggesting the removal of the first word in that second sentence.

Done!


Pathfinder Provision providing oil of unlife is for void healing character, but why section name for it is unchanged, and no scroll of harm in said Provision?

5/55/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Ohio—Cleveland

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Laclale♪ wrote:
Pathfinder Provision providing oil of unlife is for void healing character, but why section name for it is unchanged, and no scroll of harm in said Provision?

Hi, I am the Guide lead. If you mean the "Negative Healing" section, the update to "Void Energy Healing" is already drafted and will be published during the next update (hopefully this week).

Whether there should be a scroll of harm in the Provisions is a question for Alex / Paizo Org Play staff. I will make a note to ask, but Alex will probably see it here.

5/55/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Ohio—Cleveland

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Petronius wrote:
Laclale♪ wrote:
Pathfinder Provision providing oil of unlife is for void healing character, but why section name for it is unchanged, and no scroll of harm in said Provision?

Hi, I am the Guide lead. If you mean the "Negative Healing" section, the update to "Void Energy Healing" is already drafted and will be published during the next update (hopefully this week).

Whether there should be a scroll of harm in the Provisions is a question for Alex / Paizo Org Play staff. I will make a note to ask, but Alex will probably see it here.

I talked with OPC Alex and he confirmed that the scroll of harm is not missing from the Pathfinder Provisions list, but left off on purpose. I have no more information than that, so I can't help with any follow-up questions.


It's okay; harm spell can damage non-void energy healing creatures so

*

A question has come up about spells. If the spell was changed, we can use the old version, correct? So if I have Phantasmal Killer as a spell, I can still use it, and not the rules for Vision of Death, right? Someone said there was a blog post that said differently and I’d like clarification before I go redoing all my spells.

4/5 ****

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If it has the same name, you must use the revised text.

If it doesn't have the same name, its a different spell etc.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

Petronius wrote:
thistledown wrote:
The religion section still talks about deities that require Evil followers.

Sure does! FYI, the glyph icon next to the Religion header means 'the Guide Team knows this section still needs more attention post-Remaster.'

If you hover over the icon, there's a short explanation, and it's also a link to the Remaster page "Work in Progress" section with a bit fuller discussion.

It doesn't hurt to remind us, though! Just wanted to be sure folks are aware of what the icon means. Thanks!

I don't see any glyph icons anywhere on the page. There's a chain-link icon that appears when I hover near the titles, but that's it. Using firefox if that helps with debugging.

edit: though it's been a month since I posted. Maybe they were all resolved.

*

Pirate Rob wrote:

If it has the same name, you must use the revised text.

If it doesn't have the same name, its a different spell etc.

Welp, then somebody goofed.

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