Venture-Captain, Conventions—PaizoCon
|
I'm running this as well and here's my understandings on your questions
Hopefully this helps
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Most probably - everyone should receive a boon, but still worth to clarify:
"...GMs should carefully consider
which PC is best suited for this
responsibility..."
and
"...Accepting the pseudodragon grants the PCs the “Draconic Sidekick” boon..."
Does it mean that only one PC in a party receives that boon?
Or everyone receive it as usual?
If so, - what's the point to GM to "consider carefully" who should receive that dragonling?
|
I'm surprised there's not more discussion of this scenario. I had fun playing it at Gen Con, and I'm currently prepping to run it at my local store this weekend.
I haven't gotten far enough in my prep to have specific scenario questions yet (only printed it and read the first few pages so far), but I do have two questions that aren't GM specific, so they may actually be better off in other threads.
1. Is the pseudo dragon actually a worthwhile familiar?
The PC I played in this doesn't qualify to take it, despite having a familiar and getting Improved Familiar for free at level 7 (Chosen One paladin), because that improved familiar is required to be LG aligned.
I'm debating if I want to put the GM credit for this on my level 2 witch, even though I had no plans to ever upgrade her familiar (planning to just keeping taking Extra Hex over and over for most of my feats). Unlike the faerie dragon, they can't use wands automatically, and as far as I can tell, not even with UMD. They're great for RP, but I don't know if there's a big enough mechanical advantage to give up a feat (and the +4 initiative I get from my rabbit familiar).
2. Should I buy a Harrow Deck? If it's just going to be a prop for this adventure, then probably not. I printed the pictures from the adventure, and they're kinda small and not as clear as the actual cards my GM used at Gen Con, but $22 is a lot for a prop for an adventure I'll probably only run once or twice. But I've started looking at what else it's good for, and the Harrower prestige class caught my eye. That looks like it would go great on a wizard, sorcerer, or arcanist.
Venture-Agent, Nebraska—Omaha
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
1. Blindsense, Darkvision, high Stealth, and telepathy are pretty neat. And the poisoned sting might come in handy. They are a bit underpowered for a 7th level familiar, but not a bad choice to take at 5th. I say that if you like the RP, go with it.
2. I really enjoy my Harrow deck. I try to have it on me whenever I play with my Cartomancer witch. He doesn't actually have mechanics that depend on it, but I enjoy drawing cards and seeing how they match up with an encounter, or making choices like "Left, Right, or Straight ahead?" with them. The cards come up in scenarios occasionally.
**John Compton cut my Harrow deck as I was playing this scenario. I'm pretty sure that means it is compelled to reveal the secrets of any game my Medium plays from now on.
|
|
Yeah, I think I've talked myself into both. I'll put the GM credit on my level 2 witch, just to keep the options open for the pseudo dragon later.
And I'll probably buy the Harrowing Deck, assuming my local store has it. For now, it's just a prop for this adventure, but I may design a PC that uses it later. And I have a $10 store credit at my local store, so I can get it at a discount. :)
Hopefully, I'll have time to read the rest of the scenario tonight. This one looks like it will need a lot more prep time than most low level scenarios, and I have a busy weekend coming up, so I want to be done prepping early.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Hunting the internet for visual aids and found this, which I really like: young griffin picture
And even better, because it's actually a hippogriff, not a griffin: baby hippogriff in watercolor
And less seriously, there's these: Where hippogriffs come from 1 and Where hippogriffs come from 2
|
|
Just noticed an obvious typo that I thought I'd point out. On page 12, in the advanced pseudodragon stats, the sting attack should say "plus poison", as in the normal pseudodragon stats, but it's missing. The poison section is still there in the end of the stat block, so I'm sure it was just a mistake when writing out the sting attack in the offense section.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm not worried about any PC ever actually doing that. I'd assume most groups will try to help the dragons.
The part I don't get is that the chef who already tried it is supposedly LN. I can buy the neutral part, as he just might not see the dragons as sentient beings worthy of respect. But a lawful thief???
Speaking of which, the scenario isn't really clear on what the PC's are supposed to do with him after catching him.
My GM at GenCon played up the lady dismissing him from her staff, which upsets him. But then she had the pseudo dragons forgive him, due partially to their own guilt over "stealing" the abandoned hippogriff egg, and seeing how much he was suffering over losing his job. Our group wanted to either kill the guy (party barbarian) or at least turn him over to the authorities (my paladin), but decided to abide by the dragons' wishes and let him go.
It really was a fun role playing encounter overall.
|
|
I'm not worried about any PC ever actually doing that. I'd assume most groups will try to help the dragons.
The part I don't get is that the chef who already tried it is supposedly LN. I can buy the neutral part, as he just might not see the dragons as sentient beings worthy of respect. But a lawful thief???
Speaking of which, the scenario isn't really clear on what the PC's are supposed to do with him after catching him.
My GM at GenCon played up the lady dismissing him from her staff, which upsets him. But then she had the pseudo dragons forgive him, due partially to their own guilt over "stealing" the abandoned hippogriff egg, and seeing how much he was suffering over losing his job. Our group wanted to either kill the guy (party barbarian) or at least turn him over to the authorities (my paladin), but decided to abide by the dragons' wishes and let him go.
It really was a fun role playing encounter overall.
Admittedly, the lady dismissed him because your bolt ace kept telling her to FIRE HIM. And then pointed out to the barbarian that the guy REALLY wasn't worth going to jail for. He was also the one that advocated that the dragons make the call on it, if memory serves. :)
But yes, that was THE best scenario I played at GenCon this year.
As far as 'lawful' thieves? To use a RL analogy, look at all the corporations out there that have folks either riding a 'golden parachute' or are using 'legal' means to screw their employees' pay. It's very easy to see 'lawful' thieves when you put it into that context.
|
|
I just looked up the poisons that Goldtooth uses in the final fight (both are in the Core Rulebook), and they are NASTY. Besides being DC 17 and 18 fort saves, which is pretty high for such a low level adventure, the Shadow Essence on her first three thrown Harrow Cards causes strength drain. That's drain, not damage.
It's 2 prestige for a Restoration, which I believe is the lowest spell that can resolve that. Some level 1 PC's might not be able to afford that, if they don't get full prestige from this adventure. Luckily, you no longer have to resolve all conditions at the end of the adventure, but some PC's may carry that strength drain into future adventures.
I'm just really surprised to see such a nasty poison in sub-tier 1-2.
|
I just looked up the poisons that Goldtooth uses in the final fight (both are in the Core Rulebook), and they are NASTY. Besides being DC 17 and 18 fort saves, which is pretty high for such a low level adventure, the Shadow Essence on her first three thrown Harrow Cards causes strength drain. That's drain, not damage.
It's 2 prestige for a Restoration, which I believe is the lowest spell that can resolve that. Some level 1 PC's might not be able to afford that, if they don't get full prestige from this adventure. Luckily, you no longer have to resolve all conditions at the end of the adventure, but some PC's may carry that strength drain into future adventures.
I'm just really surprised to see such a nasty poison in sub-tier 1-2.
I'm also surprised to see such an effective level 3 rogue build in general. I've ran this game twice now and both times the party came down to a near wipe. If they choose the uprising card then the melt into the crowds and assassinate a character tactic is incredibly effective. It's only after half the party is down do they realize they have to clear out the crowds to prevent Goldtooth's bluff sneak.
|
|
Also, while I like the choice aspect in the "dig the woman out the rubble while things blow away" encounter, I think the DCs are very high, the success conditions steep, and the penalty for failure - a small low level party is almost certain to lose a large chunk of their gold from the adventure - excessively punitive.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
As the scenario's author, I approve of waynemarkstubbs's suggestion to have Lady Berrylover or Hippy Organic Market Woman offer to pay for Restoration spells for low-tier parties.
I also approve of calling Lady Qualstair and Zeeva Foxglove "Lady Berrylover" and "Hippy Organic Market Woman," respectively. :)
|
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
|
I am not clear on how the green market perception checks are supposed to be even remotely possible:
Assuming we are generous, and start the PCs a bit inside the market, the distance penalty is *only* -20. If they full move the first turn, then half move and make a perception check the second, that penalty drops to -12.
|
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
|
Yeah, I didn't use the Mews map, it worked out fine. Better than I think it would have.
Ironically, after one of the PCs spotted the trip wire as one of the other PCs was about to step on it, and they called the investigator up to secure it, he triggered it, and they lost the book trying to save the people below.
|
Developer
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I just sort of treated it like those were the DCs after all penalties were taken into account. I suspect that was the writer's intention.
The Perception check DCs are intended to take distance into account. If any PCs are super-far away, such as if any of them are outside of the market entirely, she would be harder to notice for those PCs.
|
|
Are the cards in handout cards the same as those found in Paizo's harrow deck? I asked one of my players to bring in his harrow deck so that I could use that instead of trying to print off the cards to use as handouts (or hand waving it and showing them the sheet).
Basically, is it sufficient to use Paizo's harrow deck, or should I print out the cards from the pdf?
|
|
Are the cards in handout cards the same as those found in Paizo's harrow deck? I asked one of my players to bring in his harrow deck so that I could use that instead of trying to print off the cards to use as handouts (or hand waving it and showing them the sheet).
Basically, is it sufficient to use Paizo's harrow deck, or should I print out the cards from the pdf?
The cards in the pdf are the same as the published harrow deck, just smaller. I actually bought the harrow deck, and I'm glad I did. It's easier for players to see all the cards from a distance and make out details.
|
|
The cards in the pdf are the same as the published harrow deck, just smaller. I actually bought the harrow deck, and I'm glad I did. It's easier for players to see all the cards from a distance and make out details.Are the cards in handout cards the same as those found in Paizo's harrow deck? I asked one of my players to bring in his harrow deck so that I could use that instead of trying to print off the cards to use as handouts (or hand waving it and showing them the sheet).
Basically, is it sufficient to use Paizo's harrow deck, or should I print out the cards from the pdf?
Thanks, that's what the scenario implied, but I wasn't sure.
|
|
Question regarding the rewards section for Part A:
Subtier 1–2: Reduce each PC’s gold earned by 37 gp (or 83 gp).
Out of Subtier: Reduce each PC’s gold earned by 74 gp (or 211 gp).
Subtier 4–5: Reduce each PC’s gold earned by 112 gp (or 340 gp)."
The reward reductions are listed for failing the first task or both tasks, but no number is listed for what to do if the PCs succeed at the first task but fail the second. Also, the numbers given don't seem to correspond to actual rewards found based on the actions of the PCs
|
Venture-Captain, Isles—Online
|
Are the cards in handout cards the same as those found in Paizo's harrow deck?
the deluxe harrow deck cards are 70mm x 121mm. i enlarged three from the scenario to that size and printed them onto thin card to use as throwing props, rather than destroy my actual harrow deck.
What happens if a PC receives a card from the choosing (p. 5) but doesn't have the corresponding skill?
E.g. She draws "The Vision" but doesn't have any knowledge skills.
Answered on page 13:
That PC counts as being trained in the Knowledge skill he chooses even if he doesn’t have any ranks in it.
Missed that, thanks.
Venture-Captain, Ohio—Columbus
|
Great scenario. Love to see Harrow used! Really well written plot with actual choices to make (save the papers or save the woman and child, how to handle the dragons) and many alternate ways to get clues to where the PCs need to go. Expecially, because not every party has a Bard.
However, can someone explain to me why the Delay Poison potion won't delay the poison effects on Lady Qualstair? "Because the scenario says so" is an extremely poor reason in my mind and leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Wantonly changing the rules of the Golarion universe simply to force Heal checks does not sit well with me.
|
Venture-Agent, Nebraska—Omaha
|
Great scenario. Love to see Harrow used! Really well written plot with actual choices to make (save the papers or save the woman and child, how to handle the dragons) and many alternate ways to get clues to where the PCs need to go. Expecially, because not every party has a Bard.
However, can someone explain to me why the Delay Poison potion won't delay the poison effects on Lady Qualstair? "Because the scenario says so" is an extremely poor reason in my mind and leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Wantonly changing the rules of the Golarion universe simply to force Heal checks does not sit well with me.
Did someone misread the scenario? It explicitly says the potion of delay poison is enough to save her.
Even a delay poison spell or potion (such as the one the PCs may have found in area A) is sufficient to grant the noblewoman time to obtain stronger curative magic from a church
|
Venture-Captain, Ohio—Columbus
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
*Hides in shame*
Yes. I have mis-read it. Four times tonight. How much prestige do I have to spend for a cure blindness spell?
I swear I read it 3 times at the game and again when I got home and saw a "not sufficient" every time!
In summary: Great scenario. I am blind. ☺️
|
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
|
Prepping for next week. Looks exciting. Imaginative scenario, lots of moving parts. I do have some questions...
A1. The Entryway
The formerly opulent entry hall is filled with piles of
straw and rags that serve as chairs, as well as the tattered
sacks where its residents keep their meager possessions.
Creatures: The Empty (100 N male and female human
[Varisian] commoners 1) are suspicious of strangers.
Are there really a hundred beggars in there? How is Tsura the only one getting hit by falling brickwork then?
Also, the rewards for that scene look wrong; the loot found seems worth much more than the beggars' trinkets, but failing to save Tsura is a much bigger fraction of the scene reward.
|
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
|
She's not. She is just the only one who has anything worth giving you as a reward. :)
Yeah, I noticed the loot thing too. I just assumed that foxglove paid a bonus because she felt guilty that sending you caused the accident, and you had to clean up her mess.
(Especially since when the young beggar boy gave the party paladin his toy top for saving his grandmother, the paladin was like, "no, I can't take your treasured toy, you keep it" )
|
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
|
How have other GMs handled the crowds in the Green Market? I'm running into two issues here;
1) The crowds move at initiative 0, and if Jaelle is hiding in a crowd, it's entirely possible she'll be left in the open because it's not her turn, while the crowd walks away. Is there a smoother way to run that?
2) Did you use minis or slips of paper or something to indicate where the crowds were? It's such a big map, is there a smart way to do this, one that doesn't have me spending ten minutes covering the map with slips of paper?
|
|
I didn't put anything on the map to indicate the crowd. I just told the players, "There's a crowd of people here, so the entire area counts as difficult terrain, and it may be tough to pick out individuals in the crowd, so I'll ask for perception checks as necessary."
The harder part was tracking where the crowd was as they start to clear out. I just sorta made it up as I went with that part.
I need to review this one, since I'm running it again in two weeks, and this is one part that I maybe could have done better.
|
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4
|
I put 20 or so figures spread around on the table as representative of the boundaries of the crowd and clusters of people to give the impression of NPCs without completely cluttering the map. This allowed the antagonist pawn to also 'hide in plain sight' as it were, so I could track her movement but have it hidden in the movement of all the other NPC pawns.
I didn't run into any issue with the crowd moving away from her so I'm not sure about that. My PCs had no luck controlling the crowd to clear a path and had to press through the slow way. They didn't spot Jaelle until round 4.
|
Venture-Lieutenant, Virginia—Norfolk
|
1. Blindsense, Darkvision, high Stealth, and telepathy are pretty neat. And the poisoned sting might come in handy. They are a bit underpowered for a 7th level familiar, but not a bad choice to take at 5th. I say that if you like the RP, go with it.
2. I really enjoy my Harrow deck. I try to have it on me whenever I play with my Cartomancer witch. He doesn't actually have mechanics that depend on it, but I enjoy drawing cards and seeing how they match up with an encounter, or making choices like "Left, Right, or Straight ahead?" with them. The cards come up in scenarios occasionally.
**John Compton cut my Harrow deck as I was playing this scenario. I'm pretty sure that means it is compelled to reveal the secrets of any game my Medium plays from now on.
Hi Fromper! I THINK i was your GM for Gencon. I debated on the harrow deck, but I found it super helpful when running the Harrowing module (Which I LOVED) and I am now considering making a harrower.
|
Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht
|
I ran this yesterday, I have some questions about the familiar, specificially these lines:
As long as you do not mistreat your new ally and your alignment does not become evil at any time, she agrees to travel with you.
(...)
First, you may take a pseudodragon (Pathfnder RPG Bestiary 229) as a familiar with the Improved Familiar feat as long as you are a spellcaster of at least 5th level (rather than 7th).
1. Does the first line mean that you can "evade" the alignment restriction on the regular pseudodragon? For the regular list, you need to be Neutral Good (or one step from it), but would this boon allow you to get one if you're Lawful Neutral?
2. The second line: does that mean any spellcaster, or do you still need to be able to obtain a familiar (Wizard, Sorcerer with the right bloodline, Arcanist) before you can get it? The way I read it, the boon dodges that prerequisite, but I can see how it can be interpreted otherwise.
Also, I had some new players at my table when I ran this. They had a great time, and one immediately put a rank in Profession: Harrower after this adventure. :P
One thing, though: my players noted how it's a bit odd how the homeless people live in a rundown building, but the young boy has an 80 gp toy with him. And there was something else, but I forgot. >_>
Prepping for next week. Looks exciting. Imaginative scenario, lots of moving parts. I do have some questions...
A1. The Entryway
The formerly opulent entry hall is filled with piles of
straw and rags that serve as chairs, as well as the tattered
sacks where its residents keep their meager possessions.
Creatures: The Empty (100 N male and female human
[Varisian] commoners 1) are suspicious of strangers.Are there really a hundred beggars in there? How is Tsura the only one getting hit by falling brickwork then?
Also, the rewards for that scene look wrong; the loot found seems worth much more than the beggars' trinkets, but failing to save Tsura is a much bigger fraction of the scene reward.
I interpreted this as the Empty are 100 people, not necessarily 100 people in that building right now. I had to do a double-take, but no way 100 people fit in there. I said most of them are just loitering about or in town, and they come home at night. Each square can probably house two people sleeping, maybe one if there's a lot of furniture. There's 44 squares on the ground floor, not counting stairs. Those can house at least 50, I think. And then there's the second floor that's not pictured. It might not be comfortable, but I'm pretty sure that house can hold 100 people.