Dwarf Battle Oracle vs Battle Cleric


Advice

Liberty's Edge

Its been awhile since Ive made pathfinder characters. Having some small troubles considering my options. Looking for any advice you all might choose to share.

Race = Dwarf (Cant change it, part of the campaign)
15 point buy
Book options are Core, APG, Ultimate Combat/Magic are all good, other books are on case by case basis.

Party make up is a Human Paladin, Human Urban Ranger, Dwarf Wizard(brother) and my Dwarf. Originally slated to come in as a shielded fighter but looking at options of changing to Oracle or Cleric to boost the divine capabilities of the party.

Adventure path is Mummy's Mask. Im ok with either option, just hoping to read some advice I havent considered yet.

Thanks in advance


Dwarf cleric due to CHA penalty....

Sovereign Court

Go with the cleric, two carefully picked domains/subdomains are generally better than an oracle with cha penalty.


cleric.

Oracles you kinda need to know what specific thing you're doing and really get your mystery to help with that.

Clerics you just decide what you're going to do and do it. Domains are nice, but not a problem if you pick the "wrong" ones.


Go cleric, take a level of fighter at level 4 to get heavy armor and a bonus feat. An ability array of 15, 12, 12, 10, 14, 9 (15, 12, 14, 10, 16, 7 post racials) should be more than enough, though your channels will suffer. Between you and the paladin you should be fine in terms of healing.

Out of curiosity what is the Urban Ranger doing in combat? Is he a melee fighter or a ranged attacker?


I probably would not go fighter, losing spell progression suuuucks. It also delays quicken divine favor a level, which also suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks

Sovereign Court

I think you'd rather blow a feat than delay your spells with one level.
Also, the *dwarf* oracle is hurting a bit in spells known compared to a human (due to favored class bonus spells), so the gap in spell versatility is even higher here.


Ew, 15 point buy....

Str 16
Dex 10
Con 12+2
Int 7
Wis 14+2
Cha 12-2

As I remember Mummy's Mask, it's about being dirty foreigners competing for a graverobbing concession, not noble Osirians. So worship Drannvit for the totally sweet Travel (Exploration) domain (+10' speed, Doorsight 6/day, Expeditious retreat). Strength (Resolve) is not bad. Law has the awesome Touch of Law buff but terrible spells, Law (Inevitable) has....a mind affecting ability for your low level tomb raider. Knowledge (Memory) is pretty nice for recon and helping out with skill checks.

Feats? Steel Soul, Channel Smite, Dwarven Hatred Style, anything that strikes your fancy. Don't take an archetype, especially not Forge Priest.


It's delaying spell progression for two feats (or three if you grab a halberd or another martial weapon but this is a dwarf) and getting rid of the cleric's worst problem, the even levels where you get jack s$@* in terms of new stuff you can do aside from level 8. With a one level dip instead of getting a feat and a new level of spells every odd level, you get to alternate between feat, spell level, feat, spell level. A 1 level dip into anything makes the cleric infinitely less boring to make and level up.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Go cleric. Unless you are tied to the battle domain consider going forgemaster (dwarf cleric archetype).
As everyone said oracles are not a good fit for dwarves, unfortunately there's no way to get past the cha penalty. Thinking of it something akin the wildblooded empyreal bloodline for sorcerers could change this at the moment it's simply not possible.


I'm going to disagree with the consensus here a bit. Not that there is anything wrong with a dwarven cleric, but depending on what you actually want to play it might not be the best choice.

If what you mostly want is a melee fighter with some divine magic to deal with emergency situations, an Oracle of Battle is probably a better choice. Most of the revelations, especially the good one, don't rely on CHR anyway, so all it will effect is your DCs and Bonus spells (and access to higher level spells, but starting with even a 13 or 14 and getting CHR boosting items handles that just fine) and if you want your spells just for support and healing, the DC doesn't matter at all.

In exchange, you will be a better at melee than a cleric of your level.

That said there is nothing wrong with the cleric (I wouldn't go for a level of fighter, spell progress is pretty awesome, and I have never understood the concept of worry about leveling up being 'boring' even on the most complex characters you spend a few minutes leveling up in comparison to hours of playing, so who cares if the leveling process is 'boring' or not)


Yes fair point... I was focussing too much on the 'dwarf' as opposed to the 'battle'...!

Dwarf cleric > Dwarf oracle

BUT.....

Battle Oracle > Battle Cleric


Battle Shaman


Try and talk your GM into letting you use War priest from the advanced class guide. They are probably the best divine caster for a dwarf. It is basically a mixture of fighter and cleric. You get slower spell progression than a cleric or oracle, but you get all martial weapons and heavy armor. You also get a few bonus combat feats including fighter only feats. Best of all for a dwarf all your class abilities are based on WIS. But the thing that really makes it shine is being able to cast buff spells as a swift action.


well, dwarf cleric with one of the 2 options:
a battle cleric of Gorum with guidead hand feat can have super y hit , hp, defences and a greatsword.
or, go bad touch, madness and chaos and destroy foes with touch attacks.


+2con is equally good for either. A dwarf cleric gets a bonus to his casting stat and a penalty to a stat he probably doesn't care about anyway (unless you're going for some channel based build, which you shouldn't be as a dwarf), a dwarf oracle gets a penalty to his casting stat and a bonus to a stat that's always nice to have, but doesn't tie in to any class features. Clerics also get the entire spell list to pick from every day. Battle oracle is good, usually better than battle cleric, but not if you're a dwarf.


I'd take battle cleric of any deity with demon subdomain.


Why not shaman?


Combat Style wise, i like heirloom weapon (trait) for proficiency with the Longhammer, then Combat Reflexes.


Fing Mandragoran wrote:

Adventure path is Mummy's Mask. Im ok with either option, just hoping to read some advice I havent considered yet.

Thanks in advance

Just want to throw this out - the Madness Domain offers one of the most versatile and most powerful buffs/debuffs in the game in Visions of Madness, and due to the Dwarf's FCB, he gets almost unlimited uses of it. At later levels, paired with Planeshift (a 5th level spell for Clerics), its a potentially dominating combination...


There is a lg ancient osirian god who would be good for a cleric, as he has the travel domain.

Protection is ok as a domain, you basically never have to buy a cloak of resistance. The level 8 is a good power too.

Reach cleric is very effective. I played through this ap with a battle reach cleric, and I was pretty dominant, with divine favor and other buffs you are very powerful. This was in addition to the out of combat cleric things such as raise dead, enchantment removal, etc

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