I'm working on making the most charming/persuasive character possible. Here's what I have so far:
Race: Kitsune - +2 Cha; +1 Ench DC (+2 DC total)
Edit: +1/4 Ench DC from FCB
Sorcerer (Crossblooded)
Infernal - +2 Ench (Charm) DC
Fey - +2 Ench (Compulsion) DC
Spell Focus (Ench) - +1 Ench DC
So the DC's of my Ench (Charm/Compulsion) spells will start (1st level) at 19, assuming an 18 Charisma, and before looking ahead at the FCB stacking over time. It's 20 point-buy, but I'm not interested in tweaking it higher than that, and I know I could take Greater Spell Focus, but I'm here to fish for some less obvious ways to further boost my save DC's, or just make it harder for my false friends to resist my presence. I'm not opposed to changing my race/class, but I feel like Cha-based caster is the way to go, in case my spells do manage to fail, I'll have the natural diplomacy to back myself up. Or is that a defeatist attitude?
Just make sure you have ways to handle anyone immune to you charms. Oozes, Undead and Constructs spring to mind.
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Just make sure you have ways to handle anyone immune to you charms. Oozes, Undead and Constructs spring to mind.
And what do you think I've been charming all these bruisers for? :p
Dipping Mesmerist is handy for a -2 to enemy will saves.
Your current problem is that your casting is really obvious, though. No charming people at parties. If you go with the Charming Courtesan PrC, you get some very nice abilities like concealing casting unless they beat you on two opposed skill checks. You'll lose a casting level, but it does come with some DC increases to make up for the loss of FCB.
Saldiven: Nice find! I was aware of Thrnodic, but not Verdant, which would fit the flavor much more.
QuidEst: Good idea with the Mesmerist dip, but as a Crossblooded Sorc, I'm already hurting on spells/day; I'd prefer to stay away from level dips for that reason. I'd also prefer to not turn this into a "how does Charm Person work" thread, but that is a good point. I can't find the Charming Courtesan PrC...
Cavall: I'm not sure if that's how the Bard works. They still have Verbal and Somatic components, and would still broadcast their casting. I've never heard of a Bard getting around mind-affect-immune types any easier than other casters; can you explain? Also, we already have a Bard, so this is already a bit of a hard sell, but not impossible...
Ooh, missed Crossblooded. Since Crossblooded hits your spells so hard, I'd drop it and then take the one level hit either for the PrC or for a Mesmerist's flat -2 on will saves, depending on how much you're concerned about the crowded room Charm Person problem. Or grab Greater Spell Focus instead.
Ooh, missed Crossblooded. Since Crossblooded hits your spells so hard, I'd drop it and then take the one level hit either for the PrC or for a Mesmerist's flat -2 on will saves, depending on how much you're concerned about the crowded room Charm Person problem. Or grab Greater Spell Focus instead.
That's going to hit my spells per day AND my caster level, for the exact same DC result for either my Charm or Compulsion spells (though the other will get an additional +2, but I'm not sure the first half of the equation is worth it). I do plan to take Greater Spell Focus.
Are there any magic items I can plan to pick up that might help me narrow down the list of creatures immune to mind-affecting effects?
Nothing says you have to magically trick someone into doing your will. Max out your Bluff skill and Diplomacy skills, and probably Sense Motive as well to get a feel for what works best on a target. Persuasive feat, trait to make Diplomacy a class skill, don't forget your viper familiar for +3 Bluff (or pig for +3 Diplomacy if you prefer).
One thing that would both minimise your drawbacks to crossblooded and give you the option to target other saves is going with a Words of Power caster. I've been playing one and for Enchantment it is really good. You suffer a bit in spell options, but Friendship being added to something that targets fortitude against that pesky caster is aces.
Coaxing Spell is the metamagic to affect oozes with mind-affecting spells.
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As someone that has dealt with a slightly less powerful version of this, just don't do it. You stop everyone else on the table from being able to hit the will save because of your DCs and there's good stuff to throw in there. Heck you're hurting those that aim for the reflex and fort saves since a number of ways to boost will also boost those saves. This character is not fun to play alongside unless the GM puts in a lot of stuff immune to you at the mid-high levels.
For my kitsune enchanter, my go-to spell is unprepared combatant.
Unprepared combatant is this nifty spell that causes your target to take a –4 penalty on Reflex saves and initiative checks, so what I like do to in combat is blast my foes with that penalty, then cast create pit (or any other suitably battlefield-controlling spell) on them. That way you're not turning off combat for the rest of your table, but your enchantments remain relevant and beloved.
For magic items consider metamagic rods of those inconvenient coaxing spell etc. feats. And the usual sorcerer stuff to expand your effective spell list.
Persistent Spell is a feat I'd get directly though, it's something you'll end up using a lot.
Never a fan of building a character around a spell that requires GM adjudication every time you want to do something with it. Charm spells are not the be all end all....that's dominate. Just because they are friendly now doesn't mean they will fight for you and die for you.
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EDIT: I looked again and saw that you are trying to balance charm/compulsion bonuses with Crossblooded. I don't recommend it.
The rest of your plan looks good.
Suggestion: avoid Crossblooded. It gives you a huge penalty for what you get. It's normally only a good choice for particular niche direct damage sorcerer builds. Even then, I am skeptical about its value.
Since Infernal's bloodline arcana applies to charm, and Fey's bloodline arcana applies to compulsion, it's best to pick one or the other.
Looks like you want Infernal.
Greater Spell Focus is your next best bet for boosting DC.
Raising your Charisma is really the only thing that's left after that.
You could look to debuffs like Mind Fog, Enervation, Bestow Curse, etc. Those make your nasty enchantment effects more likely to stick, but you will have to wait a while for them.
My PFS Kitsune Fey Sorcerer is going to learn Unprepared Combatant at next chance he gets. Thanks for that Alexander... I had considered the combo before, but hadn't realized how strong Pit spells are for control until recently. That's gravy.
I personally love the enchantment Kitsune Sorcerer build, though it is rather squishy with less than par saves and health. But anyway, some thing I extremely recommend for your build, which is very charm heavy, is the Cunning Caster feat. which will allow you to hide your spell casting with a bluff check. So you could charm people at parties or is general public. GL!
OK, so we're slowly building on the list of creatures normally immune to mind-affecting effects that I can take a feat for and effect - or get a Rod for - nice suggestion, avr!
Threnodic Spell - Intelligent/mindless Undead
Verdant Spell - Intelligent/mindless Plants
Coaxing Spell - Mindless Oozes/Vermin
Looks like the remaining creature types are:
Constructs, Swarms, and a few different outsiders.
If there's a Construct feat out there, I'd love to hear about it :)
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The Psychic Inception Bold Stare for Mesmerist at 3rd level lets you affect anything that's typically immune to mind-effecting, including mindless creatures. Only a 50% chance on any given round it'll do anything, but figured it's relevant with people talking about ways to get around those issues.
Mesmerist works pretty well for the concept you're talking about to be honest.
My biggest concern here is that you're building a character around an exceedingly expansive expectation of a GM's interpretation of a 1st level spell.
If you're going with a sorcerer with a high save DC, focus on the "save or suck" spells. At each level, there's a good choice for one targeting each of the three saves. Usually they're in enchantment (will), necromancy (fortitude), and conjuration (reflex).
Another item to consider - max out your intimidate. It's an insanely good debuff before hitting them with your save-or-sucks. Remember, masterwork tools help skills so get a scary mask or something.
Actually, a lot of those concerns about Charm Person are solved by the Friendship version you get from going Words of Power if that's allowed. Though, personally I would rather go with a more beneficial Crossblooded list as opposed to both charm and compulsion. Ideally something that puts a lot more Charm on my list.
Also, remember that "Daze" is enchantment (compulsion) the negatives is that its only a single round and then its a minute immunity, however with your specialization it should be a easy way to pick out a enemy for a round.
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example of a PNJ I had in a campaing
Female Kitsune, with FCB
traits :
Charming : (+1 bluff/diplo and +1 DC Lang-dep) IF could be sexually attracted
eastern mysteries : 1/D +2 DC
Wizard Enchanter/Controller 1 : send telepathic order 60ft if controlling, as though sharing same language
Cross-blood sorcerer : but not the ones you picked:
bloodlines : pestilence & serpentine
Serpentine: your mind affecting or Language dependant can affect as humanoid that understand language: animals, monstrous humanoid, magical beasts
Pestilence: vermin like animals
if this archetype is allowed in addition to cross-blooded (NOT strict RAW but largely accepted)
Tattooed : varisian tatoo (enchantment +1CL), SLA Daze 3/J
Power 1 : tattoo familiar : Thrush : +3 Diplo, speaks
Oracle , lore. revelation sidestep secrets : add Cha to armor/ST reflex (instead of dex)
Curse: Deaf : All spells cast silent (no lvl/casting time increase)
(or ever better : Mute from Jade Regent, same advanges and let your familiar speak for you)
Feats : in addition to the already mentioned ones
* gifted mesmerist (achievement: affect 25 different target with charm/compulsion)
cast 1 charm/compulsion spell 1/D as SLA; can change spell every new Spell Level
* still spells (to take when you can cast 2nd lvl spell but have no options yet)
* noble scion (war : Cha to init)
*
Like others, I'd drop the Crossblooded.
You are gaining +2 for DC's on Charm/Comp when you can give up nothing and gain that +2 for **ALL** Will DC's, including Charm/Comp with the dip.
Like others, I'd drop the Crossblooded.
You are gaining +2 for DC's on Charm/Comp when you can give up nothing and gain that +2 for **ALL** Will DC's, including Charm/Comp with the dip.
As well as still being 1 level behind in spells, as well as -1 CL on all spells cast. I get it that Crossblooded isn't optimal, but I'm failing to see how a dip into Arcanist is better?
Spellsong feat and dirge bard. Done and done. One feat and one archtype.
Cavall: I'm not sure if that's how the Bard works. They still have Verbal and Somatic components, and would still broadcast their casting. I've never heard of a Bard getting around mind-affect-immune types any easier than other casters; can you explain? Also, we already have a Bard, so this is already a bit of a hard sell, but not impossible...
Right you are!