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@IonutRO
That's the point. They cant do it naturally because they aren't as coordinated with their other limbs, but when they undergo special training to be coordinated with those limbs, the get extra attacks.
It's a good point about not needing to be humanoid though. A beholder monk would get the same amount of flurry attacks as an octopus monk of the same level.
Still, I can attack much faster with both hands than I can with just one, which probably means I'd be able to attack faster with four hands than I can with two.
No, it doesn't. In the time you could hit someone with four arms one after the other, you could hit him four times with just one.
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No, it doesn't. In the time you could hit someone with four arms one after the other, you could hit him four times with just one.@IonutRO
That's the point. They cant do it naturally because they aren't as coordinated with their other limbs, but when they undergo special training to be coordinated with those limbs, the get extra attacks.
It's a good point about not needing to be humanoid though. A beholder monk would get the same amount of flurry attacks as an octopus monk of the same level.
Still, I can attack much faster with both hands than I can with just one, which probably means I'd be able to attack faster with four hands than I can with two.
No, you really can't. You haven't factored in withdrawal time. You need time to pull your arm back from the punch.
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No, you really can't. You haven't factored in withdrawal time. You need time to pull your arm back from the punch.No, it doesn't. In the time you could hit someone with four arms one after the other, you could hit him four times with just one.@IonutRO
That's the point. They cant do it naturally because they aren't as coordinated with their other limbs, but when they undergo special training to be coordinated with those limbs, the get extra attacks.
It's a good point about not needing to be humanoid though. A beholder monk would get the same amount of flurry attacks as an octopus monk of the same level.
Still, I can attack much faster with both hands than I can with just one, which probably means I'd be able to attack faster with four hands than I can with two.
No, you don't. You need to sling your arm back before each punch, which by the time you pull back your left arm to follow up a right handed punch you could've just pulled your right hand back again and hit with it a second time.
With actual weapons it's even easier.
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You have something of a point. But let's take a tangent. Starfinder is much more likely to focus on ranged combat. How would that get handled? Four hands, four pistols?
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Space brothels in SPACE!!!!
I'm gonna build my own theme park with blackjack, and hookers! In fact forget the theme park!
You have something of a point. But let's take a tangent. Starfinder is much more likely to focus on ranged combat. How would that get handled? Four hands, four pistols?
The thing about ranged weapons is that they need to be aimed (Unless you're supressing an area) and you can only look down the sights or downrange of one weapon at a time unless you have multiple heads. Meaning you either have to alternate between pistols (which takes the longest), empty one pistol and then the next (which is faster), or try to fire them all at the same time, which would be highly inaccurate.
The first option is much slower and possibly less accurate than just shooting a single pistol over and over in the same time span.
The second option (if we assume Starfinder the same structure of combat as Pathfinder) would only come into play if you run out of ammo mid full-attack action or at the end of your turn, in which case it would simply allow you to continue attacking with the next pistol.
And the third option would work like you assume it would, you get four shots per attack iteration, but only one of them is aimed and the others are wild, unaimed shots, unlikely to hit the target and more likely to hit someone else.
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We know that humans, lashunta, androids, and ratfolk are going to be core races. What other 3(or more) races will you guys pic as core?
I ould like to see the trox, just for the fact that they were originally from space
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You have something of a point. But let's take a tangent. Starfinder is much more likely to focus on ranged combat. How would that get handled? Four hands, four pistols?The thing about ranged weapons is that they need to be aimed (Unless you're supressing an area) and you can only look down the sights or downrange of one weapon at a time unless you have multiple heads. Meaning you either have to alternate between pistols (which takes the longest), empty one pistol and then the next (which is faster), or try to fire them all at the same time, which would be highly inaccurate.
The first option is much slower and possibly less accurate than just shooting a single pistol over and over in the same time span.
The second option (if we assume Starfinder the same structure of combat as Pathfinder) would only come into play if you run out of ammo mid full-attack action or at the end of your turn, in which case it would simply allow you to continue attacking with the next pistol.
And the third option would work like you assume it would, you get four shots per attack iteration, but only one of them is aimed and the others are wild, unaimed shots, unlikely to hit the target and more likely to hit someone else.
True, not to mention a huge waste of ammunition.
No, it doesn't. In the time you could hit someone with four arms one after the other, you could hit him four times with just one.@IonutRO
That's the point. They cant do it naturally because they aren't as coordinated with their other limbs, but when they undergo special training to be coordinated with those limbs, the get extra attacks.
It's a good point about not needing to be humanoid though. A beholder monk would get the same amount of flurry attacks as an octopus monk of the same level.
Still, I can attack much faster with both hands than I can with just one, which probably means I'd be able to attack faster with four hands than I can with two.
That's not true at all. Striking with 1 arm means you have to pull back the same arm and preposition it with every strike. That takes time. Fractions of seconds, but that means the world in a fight. I mean, do you seriously believe a one armed man suffers no disadvantage in a fight? They do, a huge one, and that's why.
Why do you think boxing combos consist of swinging both arms? Fighters typically have one arm that's stronger than the other, so why not just use that one every time? Its because using both arms is faster.
I've been in dozens of fights man. I know professional fighters, people who own mma gyms, etc. 2 arms are faster than 1. Perhaps its different with weapons in your hands, I have no experience with that. I doubt it though
I've been in dozens of fights man. I know professional fighters, people who own mma gyms, etc. 2 arms are faster than 1. Perhaps its different with weapons in your hands, I have no experience with that. I doubt it though
All weapons did in my modern arnis classes was speed the attack up.
You might be a lightning jab, but a knife blade or the end of a stick makes you look like you're in molasses...
^Weapons give a speed advantage because you can typically begin to strike from multiple starting positions and still do heavy damage, meaning you can begin to strike from wherever your previous strike ended. Its not quite the same with bare hands because you need their maximum potential to do worthwhile damage. But that is an advantage to weapons over bare hands, it doesn't bare on 1 vs 2.
I suppose if you're not trained to use weapons in both hands then it's probably just as fast to use 1 hand because you get overwhelmed by coordinating 2, but for someone trained in 2 weapon fighting, 2 is much faster.
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The 3.5 changeling was one of my favorite races. They were just so much fun for a player like me. Id love to see shapeshifting alien as a core race
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A shapeshifting alien? Perhaps some sort of mutated aranea?
Look, I'm stuck on araneas. I won't let up until someone gives them the respect/respec they deserve!
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Single biome planet species! Ocean planet, desert planet, forest planet, city planet, swamp planet, and races for them all!
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A shapeshifting alien?
Well... [self-promotion] There was a shapeshifting originally-alien PC race way back in Wayfinder #7. [/self-promotion]
Perhaps some sort of mutated aranea?
Look, I'm stuck on araneas. I won't let up until someone gives them the respect/respec they deserve!
I have so many notes and mechanics stuff written on aranea, their offspring race, and phase spiders in Nurvatchta. Certainly some of them had to escape Golarion before it disappeared, right?
The fun in it for me was having the actual shapechange special quality. Further boosting your +10 to disguise as much as possible and being able to take countless humanoid forms at will made you pretty slippery. Good times
So what do we know for sure?
Human
Ratfolk
Android
Lashunta (or rather, Andorians lol)
Kasatha?
Anything else we know of? I feel like something specifically not humanoid was mentioned, but don't know of that was the kasatha
I think Lashunta has only been hinted at but Kasatha is in for sure
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Yeah, the Lashunta have not been confirmed but the other 4 have been. I just wonder if the racial stats are different or what considering that Kasatha and Androids are much more powerful then standard races. Maybe there are options like cybernetics, genetic engineering, bio enhancements, etc. for character creation and the "weaker" races get more "slots" for abilities or something like that anyway.
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Lashunta are mentioned in the text on the main Starfinder page, so I think we can accept them as confirmed.
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From what I know if there are the Haan, the complative, ratfolk, androids, humans , and lashunta. Personally I want to see the Haan
Haan and the contemplative are unlikely to be core, though, since they're in a Free RPG Day mini-bestiary.
Has anybody seen the reference to Shirren on the Compatibility Page?
"See the "Shirren Racial Traits" section in Chapter 3 of the Starfinder Core Rulebook."
Kind of seems like this might be referring to one of our as of yet unannounced remaining two core races. Also, was the Ysoki with Navasi on the cover of First Contact the Soldier Iconic? Because, if so, just yes. Freaking yes. I am never not going to have flamethrower-wielding rodents in all my future campaigns.
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Has anybody seen the reference to Shirren on the Compatibility Page?
"See the "Shirren Racial Traits" section in Chapter 3 of the Starfinder Core Rulebook."
Kind of seems like this might be referring to one of our as of yet unannounced remaining two core races.
*whistles to self* *looks around casually*
Because, if so, just yes. Freaking yes. I am never not going to have flamethrower-wielding rodents in all my future campaigns.
This part confuses me (double negatives do that to me). Do you mean you will most-definitely have flamethrower-wielding rodents in your future campaign? Or the opposite?
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At face value, I'd pronounce it as shir-ren ('shear wren') but quickly so the two syllables blur together a bit.
Have these critters appeared elsewhere in any of the pathfinder space/lovecraft/crashed ship stuff?
Personally I'd hope for flying, singing seahorses rather than the space brothel girls of Star Control. Failing that, some sort of tentacle monster derived from Scylla and Charybdis.
I think this could be a nice Easter Egg of a spoiler. I just looked up the corresponding license for Pathfinder and noticed that it mentioned "Elf Racial Traits" -- and Elves are definitely a core race in standard Pathfinder.
So it seems likely that the Shirren is one of the two unknown core races, about which we currently know -- absolutely nothing.
Has anybody seen the reference to Shirren on the Compatibility Page?
"See the "Shirren Racial Traits" section in Chapter 3 of the Starfinder Core Rulebook."
Kind of seems like this might be referring to one of our as of yet unannounced remaining two core races. Also, was the Ysoki with Navasi on the cover of First Contact the Soldier Iconic? Because, if so, just yes. Freaking yes. I am never not going to have flamethrower-wielding rodents in all my future campaigns.
Nicely spotted, and thanks for sharing!
I agree wholeheartedly about flamethrower-toting Ysoki.
Or it could be a planet, region, or faction...
e.g. Shirren Humans as "ethnicity" in some sense?
I still kind of expect them to include two Small races in the Core assumption.
I personally would include Halflings because they are supposed to go with Human wherever they go, or some such.
Interesting to see how they handle the majority of Golarion cultures and religions that are still barely explored.
Could be that some get detailed first in Starfinder before in the original Golarion setting.
(although of course this would be the future mutated post-Gap version/descendant of said culture)
Whether Tian, Casmaron, Vudrani, South Garund, Arcadian, Not-Australia, or elsewhere (undersea?).
It sounds like it won't be touched right away, but interested to see how Elves are handled,
most especially how their long lives intersect with Starfinder's Gap event.
This part confuses me (double negatives do that to me). Do you mean you will most-definitely have flamethrower-wielding rodents in your future campaign? Or the opposite?
I most definitely meant I will have flamethrower-wielding rodents in my campaigns! Also, Shirren should totally be Starfinder's weird-speaking aliens now, who never do not speak always in double-negatives, hmm? Either that or double-entendres. I'm not picky.
I'm assuming Sutter's references to the two remaining races being "less human" means they're diverging from the bipedal humanoid look. Tentacle monsters could be fun, which incidentally I'm sure is what Kasatha are hiding underneath their mouth pieces. Tentacles or another face. I'd bet on it.
So, speculation time. Given that every race has to have the physicality to play any of the seven classes that have been announced, many of which seem to require some degree of athletic capability (Soldiers and Operatives, specifically), I'm assuming core races are going to at least have extremities and means of tangibly gripping objects, so no Contemplatives of Ashok or sentient balls of light. I also don't think the alien would be so bizarre that it would be off-putting to play as or look out of place along with the other six core races. To an extent, it will probably move and express itself in a recognisable and approachable fashion. Tentacled aliens look good, or perhaps something with the build of the Runner Alien, or the Elcor in Mass Effect (hunched over, quadrupedal). Personally, I'm kind of hoping for a big, imposing, grumpy alien like Chewbacca. We don't have any Chewbacca-like aliens yet. I super-duper want a quadrupedal Chewbacca alien now.
As for flavour, I've been trying to think about it from an archetypal standpoint. What types of ubiquitous sci-fi cultures and societies are represented by Starfinder so far, and what are we missing? To get an idea, I contrasted the seven core Pathfinder races with seven well-known sci-fi races from Mass Effect and tried to find some common tropes. There are a few archetypal roles I worked out.
The COLONIST (Human) is never not in every damn story ever. Whether they are benign pioneers or explorers, or somewhat more morally grey missionaries or imperialists, inflicting their superior culture and ideals on the galaxy whether it wants them or not - colonists are always the main character of their own story, and are pretty sure they are the focal point the entire universe revolves around. They want to discover, they want to spread, and they've got big dreams for themselves and/or the world. Humans fit this trope in both Pathfinder and Mass Effect, and I expect Starfinder humans won't be much different either. If you want to be the everyman, the All-American Gal, the goddamn protagonist, human colonist is for you.
The LUMINARY (Elf, Asari) is the character everybody wants to be/wants to possess. Charismatic, intellectual, graceful, wise, and a bit bad-ass, you either hate to love these people or you love to love them. They can also be great, big, better-than-thou stiffs. Elves and Asari fit this mold, each possessing an ancient heritage, sophisticated society, and a palpable radiance to them that alone can be the subject of many a blue-eyed sailor's shanty. The females always (for better or worse) seem to fit idealised feminine forms (I have almost never seen an ugly elf or Asari), and the males have a similarly sculpted look. The Lashunta are basically like this, with their males possessing the equivalently idealised rugged and muscular build. In addition to being highly charismatic, ancient, magically adept (and technologically adept presumably, if Sutter's comparison to Vulcans is any indication), and the subject of many oogly-eyes, Lashunta are also freaking psychics. If you want to play a Lashunta and be the very best that no one ever was, you better be prepared to deal with the whole Breakfast Club Cheerleader/Jock crap along the way.
The MERCHANT (Dwarf, Salarian) is everybody's best friend, mostly because they secretly own everybody. Prodigious craftsmen and entrepreneurs, they value wealth, clan, and well-built things above all else. Although their secretive nature could be suspicious, nobody's inclined to dislike them when they are trading you a golden toilet at bargain price. The Dwarves, while culturally declined in Golarian, nevertheless are the premier craftsmen of the realm and hoarders of immense wealth. If you want to be well off in the world, you want to have a Dwarven friend or two. The Salarians are similarly rich in the trade of intelligence and espionage, and you want to be friends with these people for exactly the reason you don't want to be their enemy. In fact, it's the Salarians' endless hoards of dirt they have on everybody that seems to be the secret to their success, considering their weak stature and short lifespan - much like the Ysoki, who, despite their own individual vulnerability, band their daggers and gold pieces together to become a formidable force, having a natural predilection to mercantilism and tinkering. If you want to be the party member that owns a big shop, crafts a mean machine gun, or has friends in the black market, Ysoki's not a bad choice.
The NOMAD (Half-Elf, Quarian) doesn't belong. Unlike a nomadic merchant, who seems to make everywhere their home, the nomad doesn't have a home anywhere. Whether their homeworld is lost, or they've been cast away from their families, or just don't feel they belong there in the first place, nomads learn quickly they must rely on themselves. Mysterious and reserved, they are the subject of many rumours and superstitions. Half-Elves, being half-human and half-elf, struggle to belong to either heritage, and are often strangers among their own people. Meeting prejudice in either family, they strive for personal excellence to find a place in the world. Similarly, the Quarians have had to rebuild their society from ground up after being ousted by the Geth, and have become unparalleled survivalists, crafting high-tech suits to habitate diverse alien worlds, and building impressive starships from mere scraps. The prejudice Quarians routinely deal with have forced them to become very resourceful, and to cling to tradition and family above all else. The Kasatha have a few parallels here, a not very well known species in Golarian having nonetheless proven impressively self-sufficient and adaptable wherever they go. You'll want to play a Kasatha if you've a flair for privacy and are a good loner, are used to carrying around your own weight, and might be a secret romantic.
The NASCENT (Halfling, Geth) is Joseph Campbell's D20 write-up. Baby-faced and blue-eyed, you're going to fall in love with these party members for their innocence, naïveté and idealism, and you're also going to be frequently annoyed with them for their innocence, naïveté and idealism. The nascent is your coming of age PC, and little munchkin of the party. No matter what adversity hits them, nothing seems to keep down their annoying as hell optimism, although their gullibility might get them into trouble. Indeed, ne'er-do-gooders make pretty good traction taking advantage of and abusing nascents, especially Cheliax with its Halfling population. Yet despite widespread Halfling oppression in Golarian, you can't stop a Halfling from Bilbo-Baggins-ing his jolly way through dragon hoards and generally being the best damn bard this side of Absalom. The Geth, themselves subject to widespread abuse (a little more earned) are newborns to Citadel community, created to serve, nearly destroyed, and now paving their own destiny. The Geth's perspective is utterly fascinating, deprived of human instinct and emotion yet building an identity that is utterly unique. They seem to have a few things in common with Starfinder's Androids, who are themselves dealing with the existential crisis of purpose and identity, and where they fit in the galaxy.
The MERCENARY (Half-Orc, Turian) is your resident bad boy. Likely descended from a proud warrior culture and adorned with all the skills and gusto you'd expect, nobody wants to pick on this guy. For good reason, too, as they generally possess a dark reputation and a less-than reserved attitude about violence. While not necessarily ambitious, they also have no desire to live in squalor, and so will do what it takes to get by, usually by bringing in heads for gold. The mercenary can be savage and vulgar, or disciplined and organised, but they generally follow a code of honor and take their warrior's life seriously. The Turians serve this capacity in the Citadel community, serving as the raw military might of the Council, and owning a council seat almost exclusively because of that fact. Yet the Turians have a dark reputation among humans, not least because of the villainous Spectre turned rogue Saren. Half-Orcs similarly have a shady reputation in Golarian, owing to their orcish ancestry, and frequently prove to be formidable foes in battle.
I cannot think of any analogue to this archetype currently in the Starfinder lineup. Although both Lashunta and Kasatha are known to be natural warriors, one would hardly ascribe war as a defining characteristic of their culture (maybe the male Lashunta). Furthermore, the five core races all seem relatively benign, and lack the dark reputation that you might expect of Half-Orcs or D&D's Tieflings. Everybody wants to play a bad boy once in their life.
The WILD THING (Gnome, Krogan) is the misfit of the party, and doesn't really give a crap about your fancy rules. They do as they please, laughing all the way. More than that, they are the representations of nature's untamable, wild spirit. No matter how hard you push, you'll just squeeze out a little more mischief from these primitive animals, who possess a cunning or resilience you would not expect. In a disciplined, ordered society, everyone appreciates the loudmouth who tells it like it is, or has the audacity to actively rebel. The Krogans take pride in their resistance to Citadel law and convention, and seem to do everything they can to ostracise themselves from their neighbours - often just for laughs. Gnomes, representing the whimsy and wonder of magic and the fey world, are themselves jesters of the human condition, and find no greater joy than wheedling their hours away pranking and provoking the best (and worst) out of silly humans.
The Ysoki, in Sutter's own words, were made for people who wanted to be the Rocket Raccoon theatre kid of the group. That said, if the Ysoki's Golarian incarnations are any indication, they are still a generally civilized and orderly race. I want a freeloading race in the Pact Worlds that doesn't pull their own weight, and is generally only tolerated at best. I want a race that doesn't want to civilize the untamed wilderness - I want a race that wants to make it even more uncivilized and wild. Furthermore, though the Lashunta are psychic, and the Kasatha have mystical elements, I'm not sure either come exclusively from magical roots - more likely they have adapted to an increasingly technological universe. Let's have a magical race that represents the wild, untamed side of galactic frontiers - the part that pushes back against order and civilization.
In short, I hope our remaining two races give me something uncivilized. Something sinister. Something magical. Something big and scary. A Klingon type alien, or a Wookie. A space pixie would be nice, too. Or whatever else have you. That said, I fully expect Paizo's going to blow every expectation I have out of the water, and I'm beyond psyched to get a campaign running this August. Thanks for making the game of my dreams, Paizo!
As it happens, there are already proto-Wookiees in the setting - Marata, the forest moon of Bretheda the Cradle, was populated by fur-covered humanoids during the Distant Worlds era.
Or it could be a planet, region, or faction...
e.g. Shirren Humans as "ethnicity" in some sense?
I still kind of expect them to include two Small races in the Core assumption.
I personally would include Halflings because they are supposed to go with Human wherever they go, or some such.Interesting to see how they handle the majority of Golarion cultures and religions that are still barely explored.
Could be that some get detailed first in Starfinder before in the original Golarion setting.
(although of course this would be the future mutated post-Gap version/descendant of said culture)
Whether Tian, Casmaron, Vudrani, South Garund, Arcadian, Not-Australia, or elsewhere (undersea?).It sounds like it won't be touched right away, but interested to see how Elves are handled,
most especially how their long lives intersect with Starfinder's Gap event.
It's been suggested that they (and others) remember not knowing. I believe the example used was people woke up one day, and in some areas, finding out they were at war, but not knowing why. Older Elves presumably remember abandoning the world again to hide on Castrovel, but have the built in execute of not remembering why they decided to be cowards this time.
As for ethnicities, I doubt the other two races are merely ethnicities. Specifically since the other two races are 'less human like.' In general, the pathfinder ethnicities would presumably blur somewhat over the passage of time. With the nations gone and lots of bug eyed monsters out in space, it would certainly mean less. In cases they haven't blurred, presumably you can just decide whatever. 'My character is from an enclave of [insert whatever here] that was established during [event].' A Vudrani mining colony, or rebel Chelish colony of New Westcrown or whatever.
Pretty much my thinking. Absalom would be pretty homogeneous (or very low key heterogeneous in a way no one actually cares about because what is _that_ thing?) Other places, well, it depends on timing. If the timing works out that the Empire set up a colony on 'New Cheliax' on some distant planet that no one really has contact with, they'd have a strong Chelish identity.
But in the Pact World's system itself, I suspect the differentiation is going to be more if you're a Stationer, a rat-lover (from Akiton, which has a large Ysoki population), a stuffed-shirt Twilighter (from tidally locked Verces, where the Stewards come from), or a deadite (from Eox).
Something along those lines is going to matter more for identity purposes than if great-great-great-grandma happened to remember the Glory That Was Cheliax.
Of course there will always be exceptions. I wouldn't be shocked to see a crazy-fringe Taldane purity party on Absalom station claiming the place as exclusively theirs by right.
Interesting to see how they handle the majority of Golarion cultures and religions that are still barely explored.
Could be that some get detailed first in Starfinder before in the original Golarion setting.
(although of course this would be the future mutated post-Gap version/descendant of said culture)
Whether Tian, Casmaron, Vudrani, South Garund, Arcadian, Not-Australia, or elsewhere (undersea?).
I would be happy just to have this map be accepted as canonical:
Curious how drow would fit in space.Sunglasses.
I've always favored the circular welding goggle look, but maybe it's a social caste thing for the 'nightfolk' . Shabby orcs and lowborn drow have to wear the full welding mask, but middle class gets to wear just the goggles, and nobility is allowed stylish name-brand UV shades or contact lenses.
BLOB RACE BLOB RACE BLOB RACE! Bring back Dralasites/Plasmoids.
Ne'Ban from Unreal II... His was the Hex-Core race, parasites inhabiting glow-slugs inside of mechanical exoskeletons.
There were a lot of fun aliens in that game, including the Skaarj. And then there were the four-armed Nali from the previous game, who possessed certain powers including the ability to levitate, turn invisible(?), and become a 'force ghost' of sorts. The Nali would fit in with Starfinder pretty nicely.
What about this?
There was an idea put up somewhere (here or Reddit, I can't remember which) which says that Gelatinous Cubes are the survivors of a pre-Big Bang civilization. When they arrived here, the alien physics of our universe forced their anatomy into cube shapes, and they lost much of their innate power and intelligence over time.
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it would be a nice easter egg to feature a found ship that is ancient and covered in the icongraphy of a faction from Old Golarion...
I like it, discovering ancient Golarion artifact with mysterious curse, uncovering forgotten history that still doesn't quite explain everything, etc...
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If Starfinder borrowed N'Grath that would be okay too.Mantis people and space koboldsDo the mantis people look like this?
Behold, the Bug People.
From what we know, and what we can speculate from partial knowledge the iconic are thus; human envoy, android operative, vesk soldier, kasatha solarion, ysoki mechanic. That leaves the last two races, and last two classes. Now my best guess is the insectoid race (shirren perhaps?) is a technomancer, and an as yet to be seen lashunta is the mystic. Though I could be wrong.