I'm playing a spelleater bloodrager in a campaign with a dearth of divine casters. We're doing... okay, though the odd challenge that we'd win real fast with a cleric on the party is getting old.
Anyway. I'm, as you've probably gleaned from the title, playing a spelleater bloodrager, and while the DM was nice enough to let us actually buy a wand of Inflict light wounds in town, long-term I'd like to really capitalize on the archetype's self-healing abilities.
Here are three tricks I've found so far for higher levels:
Ablative Barrier: convert some damage to nonlethal, then double-dip on my healing. It's almost as good as DR!
Periapt of Wound Closure: Unless I drastically misunderstand how this item works, I'd gain double my regeneration for both spelleating and fast healing.
Ring of Regeneration: It's ''technically'' not fast-healing, and combos with the Periapt for another two hp.
Are there any other ways to either convert lethal damage I'd take into non-lethal or to otherwise increase my fast healing? Pathfinder's a huge game, and I'm not sure I wouldn't miss something.
I'm pretty sure you're misunderstanding the Periapt. It doubles your normal healing only. The HP that you regain through daily rest (practically none). Your Fast Healing while using Bloodrage and the HP gained from Spelleating are both not included in normal healing.
Edit: likewise the regen from the ring is also not included.
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But the rules for fast healing specifically describe it as being "just like natural healing," while the healing from spelleating is not mentioned as being magical.
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Take the Aberrant bloodline. If you can't/don't want to change your actual bloodline, take the Crossblooded archetype (it stacks with Spell Eater) and take Aberrant as second bloodline; you don't have to select Aberrant bloodline power, so it's not game-breaking if you add this bloodline to your character. If for some reason this is not possible, take the proper Skill Focus, and then Eldritch Heritage (Aberrant), but this is not optimal because you need to burn 2 feats. The point is: get the Aberrant bloodline!
Now get this feat: Aberrant Tumor. You get a familiar that gives you all the benefits of a familiar (half your hp, all your BAB, your skill ranks and your saves; also get a familiar with +4 to initiative) AND can meld with you. While melded, it still grants all the bonuses and gains fast-healing 5.
Select this familiar archetype: Protector. At 5th level, you can split the damage you take with your familiar...and your familiar heals 5 hp per round
So, so long half the damage you take doesn't kill your familiar, you have a sort of fast healing 5, which stacks with any actual fast healing you may have.
A less elegant solution is dip 2 levels in Alchemist (you get also a nice +4 alchemical bonus to Strength due to Mutagen), take the tumor familiar as 2nd level discovery, and take Boon Companion to unlock the familiar feature you need. Another way to increase you familiar level without spending a feat for Boon Companion is lose you first level bloodline power and take a Bloodline Familiar.
So, there are various solutions, some better then other:
Change your bloodline to Aberrant + Aberrant Tumor [1 feat spent]
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Get Crossblooded archetype + Aberrant Tumor [1 feat spent]
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Skill focus + Eldritch Heritage + Aberrant Tumor [3 feats spent]
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2 dip in Alchemist + Bloodline Familiar [no feats spent, Mutagen, BUT 2 Bloodrager levels and 1st level bloodline power lost]
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2 dip in Alchemist + Boon Companion [as above, no 1st level bloodline power lost, BUT ALSO 1 feat spent and 7th level familiar]
EDIT: the Eldritch Heritage route may not work because HE doesn't give you a bloodline, it just gives you its 1st level power.
if you can still take traits (or got a feat to pick extra traits feat)
then the Cloistered Upbringing trait will get you +1 hp when you use the fast healing or spell eating abilities (both are supernatural healing effects). if taking extra traits consider for the other that trait which give extra rage rounds per day. or the 'vandal' trait which i love(it basically amount to having str +4 when breaking stuff or attacking objects)
The fast healer and Cloistered Upbringing don't work. Fast healing is an EX ability. What is happening is that a SU ability is granting Fast Healing, an EX ability. This means it's not resting, nor magical healing, nor supernatural healing.
...I'm actually a svetocher dhampir with the black blood bloodline. Because I stupidly listened when the DM said, "Yeah, sure, play whatever you want." Shoulda specified that up top.
Point being, I looked at fast healer, and I agree it would work... but my Con is only 12, and I dunno if I'll increase it. Stupid ten-point buy.
...And that aberrant tumor thing would definitely work, though I'druther not shaft my already-negative will-save even further by actually crossblooding it.
But the rules for fast healing specifically describe it as being "just like natural healing," while the healing from spelleating is not mentioned as being magical.
Just like natural healing does not mean that it is normal healing. One of the minefields of pathfinder rules is learning that when something is described as "like" or "functioning as" something else, it usually means following the basic rules for, not being identical.
Ultimately though, if your DM is okay with it, or just doesn't realize, then good for you, have fun.
Personally, I'd like having an item, especially for that price, that doubles fast healing. Vampires and other monsters with fast healing would get much more dangerous. Luckily for for players it isn't so.
The fast healer and Cloistered Upbringing don't work. Fast healing is an EX ability. What is happening is that a SU ability is granting Fast Healing, an EX ability. This means it's not resting, nor magical healing, nor supernatural healing.
why should i care what the supernatural effect did to cure me?
it can summon up a fairy good mother to cast cure for all i care.its a supernatural effect , the trait say "and regain 1 additional hit point when healed by supernatural effects" if that effect got me healed i get to add 1 to it. and that ability ("Blood of Life (Su)") has (su) on it. to go around and look at fast healing doesn't stop it from being a (su).
if that supernatural effect said it make you heal in one round as if you rested all day. it's still a supernatural effect that healed you and not natural healing of resting.
make it cause and effect if you need. without the effect i would have less hp. after using it i gained hp. that effect healed me X hp and is (su). i can add +1 to it.
You're incorrect. Channel energy is a SU ability that heals.
Having a SU ability to summon a fairy isn't a SU ability healing you if that fairy uses the Heal spell. As it's the spell heal that his healing you.
Fast healing is an EX effect. having a SU ability grant you an EX effect doesn't make the EX effect suddenly a SU ability.
Because the SU is just giving fast healing, that's all it's doing. It's not doing any actual healing itself to increase.
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Oh no, something in ACG/Occult/APG/UM says it gains fly like the fly spell. This would require needing two books to understand how this power works. That overly complicating :(
Like these books are built upon having the base books to reference to see how things work. How would you say it doesn't work the way it's written when that is exactly how it's written. You have an ability Blood of Life that is giving you fast healing. That's all that ability does. It's not giving any SU healing.
I really like the idea but sadly I find Chess Pwn's argument far more compelling...
Me too.
Don't see why the periapt ''wouldn't'' give a vampire boosted fast-healing though. Or a troll boosted regeneration.
But the rules for fast healing specifically describe it as being "just like natural healing," while the healing from spelleating is not mentioned as being magical.
With the fact that fast healing works just like natural healing You should only be applying the Fast Healing feat bonus HP once a day on any fast healing benefit.
I think there is a lot of twisting to the RAW and intended meanings to get this to give a PC the increase to their fast healing 1 and jumping it up to fast healing X because of a beefy con score and a single feat. Considering there are plenty of other ways you can get fast healing and better fast healing than this method I am not sure why people are focusing on this so strongly.
On this subject, is there anywhere in the rules that natural healing and magical healing are defined?
For example, Boots of the Earth (a magic item) grants fast healing when you plant your feet and stand still. Fast healing works like natural healing, but since this is a magic item granting it I would also consider it magical healing, as I would healing granted by any other magic item. Does supernatural healing count as magic? or an Ex healing ability? Or alchemical? It would be helpful if there was a definition covering it.
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I'd say that fast healing is natural healing, but it's just sped up through magic. Magical healing is when a one time magical effect hits you and heals some of your HP instantly. So magical healing isn't an ongoing effect.
Just an opinion, though. If someone has a better explanation that proves me wrong, I'll listen.
Natural Healing
With a full night's rest (8 hours of sleep or more), you recover 1 hit point per character level. Any significant interruption during your rest prevents you from healing that night.
If you undergo complete bed rest for an entire day and night, you recover twice your character level in hit points.
Magical Healing
Various abilities and spells can restore hit points.
The above are the only thing I can find about them... which isn't very helpful. However, from the look of it Natural Healing is defined only as the rest you get from 8 or more hours of bed rest, and any other abilities that restore hit points then fall under magical healing. That would make fast healing... magical healing.
As far as it goes, a society VO told me that fast healing counts as magical healing for the fast healer feat. Just being a VO doesn't mean they were right, but I would tend to take their word on it until I see a convincing argument otherwise. Certainly I've already made a character based on the pairing of fast healing and the feat Fast Healer, after their assurance. So if they don't work together I need to know. :)
I'd say specific trumps general. If an ability gives you supernatural fast healing, that fast healing would be supernatural. Or for instance, there are many supernatural abilities that work as spells, but these abilities are still not spells or even spell-like abilities.
If a druid wildshapes into a wolf, is the scent ability gained SU or EX? And is there a reason not to apply the same reasoning to a spelleater's fast healing?
Id say it's supernatural because it's not an ability they actually possess but a supernatural facsimile granted by wild shape.
Here's a rules quote:
Extraordinary Abilities (Ex): Extraordinary abilities are unusual abilities that do not rely on magic to function.
So, if you are relying on magic for the ability to function, then it can't be extraordinary.
If a druid wildshapes into a wolf...
And did you know that wild shape can even give you abilities the actual creature doesn't have. By the rules for polymorph, if the shape has a swim speed, the polymorph also gives you waterbreathing. So, while a real dolphin can't breath underwater, a Druid wild shaped into one can.
You're incorrect. Channel energy is a SU ability that heals.
Having a SU ability to summon a fairy isn't a SU ability healing you if that fairy uses the Heal spell. As it's the spell heal that his healing you.
Fast healing is an EX effect. having a SU ability grant you an EX effect doesn't make the EX effect suddenly a SU ability.Because the SU is just giving fast healing, that's all it's doing. It's not doing any actual healing itself to increase.
Sorry I know this is an old topic but it seems it's never been resolved. So I'd like to reopen it.
A few points to add to the discussion:1, In the description of Fast Healer it says 'You benefit greatly from your healing, be it from spells or natural healing.' which casts a wide net implying that all healing triggers it.
2, In Fast Healing it has the line 'Except where noted here, fast healing is just like natural healing.' Meaning that there are exceptions. Now the ability of Blood of Life is (SU) So it can be argued that the magical part triggers BoF as an exception to the normal (EX) of F.Healing. This is nothing new and the argument of most
3, Fast Healer states natural healing including rest triggers it. In the description it notes Natural and in the benefit it nots Rest. Thus it can be read natural healing (including rest) or magical healing triggers F.Healer. So F.Healing which is (EX) could be thought of as natural thus triggering it
4th and last point is Fast Healer is a feat requiring 2 other feats. So its 3 feat slots and minimum 5th level to attain. To be nested that far down, it's logical to make it an impressive feat. Considering that most characters will only have a boost of 2 or 3 points of healing by burning 3 feats and additional nerfs would not be very balanced at all to not effect BoF. It doesn't improve with levels so without a specific build the feat will see diminishing returns and by 20th level probably be very under powered. Fast Healer should reward people willing to take Endurance and Diehard in order to get it and especially reward those building a theme around it, like a bloodraging warrior who heals mid combat instead of just shrugging off damage.
Here are the abilities in question for quick reference:
Blood of Life (Su)
A spelleater’s blood empowers him to slowly recover from his wounds. At 2nd level, while bloodraging a spelleater gains fast healing 1. At 7th level and every 3 levels thereafter, this increases by 1 (to a maximum of fast healing 6 at 19th level). If the spelleater gains an increase to damage reduction from a bloodline, feat, or other ability, he is considered to have an effective damage reduction of 0, and the increase is added to this effective damage reduction.
This ability replaces uncanny dodge and damage reduction.
Fast Healing (Ex)
A creature with the fast healing special quality regains hit points at an exceptional rate, usually 1 or more hit points per round, as given in the creature’s entry. Except where noted here, fast healing is just like natural healing. Fast healing does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation, nor does it allow a creature to regrow lost body parts. Unless otherwise stated, it does not allow lost body parts to be reattached. Fast healing continues to function (even at negative hit points) until a creature dies, at which point the effects of fast healing end immediately.
Fast Healer
You benefit greatly from your healing, be it from spells or natural healing.
Prerequisites: Con 13, Diehard, Endurance.
Benefit: When you regain hit points by resting or through magical healing, you recover additional hit points equal to half your Constitution modifier (minimum +1).