Fix any Class

[Goth Guru]

Take any class that is weak in skills, fighters for instance.
Now give them a 1 per level in class skills. This is unaffected by their intelligence score.

As for the Monk, make them hit with unarmed attacks like they are using masterwork weapons. At 3rd level they are +1 to hit and damage with unarmed attacks. At 6th level +2. At 9th level +3. At 12th level +4. At 15th level +5.

[Cyrad]

Actually, a full BAB and the unchained version of flurry of blows goes a long way towards making the monk better, particularly because it lets them immediately qualify for the staple martial feats like Power Attack. And they already get a +1 to unarmed damage every 4 levels via dice increases.

[JiCi]

Kineticist:

The Chain, Cloud, Cyclone, Eruption, Explosion, Fan of Flames and Torrent form infusions are now associated with any blast, not a selected few.

This would give more versatility to several elements.

[The Sideromancer]

Druids can use metal armour without penalty, but take the spell failure chance on heavy armour, regardless of type.

[The Shaman]

Fighters: the version from the 3.5 PFCS (4+int skill points, more skills,1 less feat) is the default one. They start with combat stamina and bravery gives 1 to saves vs fear, DC to intimidate and combat stamina per 2 levels.

Swashbucklers: Charmed life does not take an action.

Kineticists: full BAB with kinetic blasts, kinetic buffer starts full each day.

[GeneMemeScene]

If we're going to keep the Swashbuckler as a class (rather than just making it an archetype like it should have been), then these fixes are more inclined to making the Swashbuckler work as advertised; their damage is already fine.

Derring-Do's threshold for increasing dice lowers as you level up. At 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter, the next lower number on the first d6 also results in another d6 rolled (5 or higher at lvl 4, 4 or higher at lvl 8, etc). At 12th level, the threshold on the second dice begins to lower as well (5 or higher at lvl 12, 4 or higher at lvl 16, etc). At 20th level, if the Swashbuckler manages to roll a third dice, this die resulting in a 5 or 6 will allow the Swashbuckler to roll a fourth dice. In addition, starting at 12th level the Swashbuckler regains one panache point if they manage to roll at least 3d6 with Derring-Do.

Opportune Parry and Riposte does not take an action. Instead, a successful parry causes the attacker to provoke an attack of opportunity from the Swashbuckler. The Swashbuckler can spend one panache point as an immediate action to increase the number of attacks of opportunity they can make in a round (allowing the Swashbuckler to still Riposte even without Combat Reflexes).

Charmed life now gives the Swashbuckler a permanent bonus of their Cha to one of their saves. The Swashbuckler can change which of their saves gets the Cha bonus as a move action, or can spend one panache point to change it as an immediate action.

Precise Strike's precision damage is not doubled by spending a panache point. Instead, the Swashbuckler can spend a panache point as a swift action in order to turn the precision damage into normal damage, allowing it to be multiplied on critical hits and increasing their effectiveness against precision-immune foes.

Superior Feint no longer costs panache. Instead, it requires a successful Feint, with a bonus to the Swashbuckler's Bluff equal to the ability modifier that the Swashbuckler uses to attack. If one of the Swashbuckler's allies hits the target while it is dex-denied from this ability, the Swashbuckler regains one panache point.

Targeted Strike no longer costs panache. Instead, if the Swashbuckler successfully hits the opponent, the Swashbuckler regains one panache point.

At 5th and every four levels thereafter, the Swashbuckler can take an extra 5-foot step in a turn. At 9th level, the Swashbuckler can take one 5-foot step even if they have moved or will move later in the turn (including a charge or move action). At 13th level, the Swashbuckler gains a +10 bonus to their move speed and can

Overall changes: give them more incentives to use their interesting abilities and give them better mobility; their reliable damage against most foes drops but in exchange they stop being null against foes like elementals.

[GeneMemeScene]

GeneMemeScene wrote:

At 5th and every four levels thereafter, the Swashbuckler can take an extra 5-foot step in a turn. At 9th level, the Swashbuckler can take one 5-foot step even if they have moved or will move later in the turn (including a charge or move action). At 13th level, the Swashbuckler gains a +10 bonus to their move speed and can

Whoops, forgot to finish the thought.

At 13th level the Swashbuckler gains a +10ft bonus to their move speed and can take all of their 5-foot steps even if they have moved or will move later in the turn, so long as the total distance they move does not exceed their move speed.

[Arctic Sphinx]

The Sideromancer wrote:

Druids can use metal armour without penalty, but take the spell failure chance on heavy armour, regardless of type.

While we're on the subject of Druids, can we give druids more options for dealing acid damage on their spell lists? Their current options are very sparse and not all that strong, with the possible exception of Acid Maw, which is mostly only good at lower levels.

[JosMartigan]

The Sideromancer wrote:

Druids can use metal armour without penalty, but take the spell failure chance on heavy armour, regardless of type.

That would violate the ethos of the character class as a champion of nature; metal armor being a representation of the civilization of men. Scimitars and sickles were (IMO) an concession by game designers to give druids some kind of weapons that weren't clubs and quarterstaves.

Rangers had no such issues since originally they were conceived as defenders of civilization against nature not warriors of nature as they have become.

[The Sideromancer]

JosMartigan wrote:

The Sideromancer wrote:

Druids can use metal armour without penalty, but take the spell failure chance on heavy armour, regardless of type.

That would violate the ethos of the character class as a champion of nature; metal armor being a representation of the civilization of men. Scimitars and sickles were (IMO) an concession by game designers to give druids some kind of weapons that weren't clubs and quarterstaves.

Rangers had no such issues since originally they were conceived as defenders of civilization against nature not warriors of nature as they have become.

Metal is *****ing Natural:

• There are fewer changes to the substance when making gold armour than leather armour, implying that if all metal is banned, leather would be too.
  
• Elements such as carbon and oxygen would not exist in distributions that allow for the complexity of life without supernovae, i.e. without iron.
  
• The atmosphere would have been blown away long before life could emerge if it weren't for massive amounts of iron and nickel producing a magnetic field.
  
• Hydrogen, the most prevalent element, is a metallic (sometimes superconducting) liquid at high pressures.
  
• Speaking of hydrogen, it works as a metal (i.e. a positive ion) in biological systems.
  
• Bioinorganic chemistry in general, such as the fact that most respiration proteins require metals to function.
  
• Nerve signals rely on Sodium and Potassium, both metals.
  

I can accept most of pathfinder, but the rejection of metals makes me touchy like some people get touchy about alignment.

[JosMartigan]

Your logic is sound. I can't refute anything you've stated. The only thing that I can come up with is that industry (which uses metals and plastics) can create run off that can be poisonous to animal and plant life.

Maybe that's the only reason the trope developed in the first place. That and Tolkien saw industry as the antithesis to nature and we all know his ideas informed D&D back when it was created.

[Goth Guru]

Druids have lost sight of the original intent. They should be allowed to use bow and arrows when the arrows use stone arrowheads.Also, turtle shell shields. What about sword like weapons made of wood with a sharp onyx blade. They should have a spell for petrifying wood so it becomes as hard as steel. By casting that on the dead trees, they can prevent clearing the land.

[JosMartigan]

Alternate materials is a great concept but anything I've ever read about wood, stone, obsidian, bone, horn, coral, shells, etc. since Dark Sun 2nd Edition makes those materials really inferior compared to steel (which is probably true in most cases), but even bronze sucks by comparison. Magic used to fix those issues tends to be mid-level so a druid wouldn't be able to defend himself martially at low levels regardless.

An option could be an archetype (or even an ability added to the core class) that allows a druid to ignore or offset the penalties due to his devotion.

Thematically a druid in leafy-looking leather or intricately carved wooden armor is amazing and having weapons that are crafted similarly is also great. But of course, those might just be magical items, artifacts, or relics anyway.

[My Self]

Unchained Rogue fixes:
-All skills are class skills
-Strong Will save
-Auto-Sneak Attack at 1st level. As a full-round action, you may make one attack with BAB = Rogue Level that always qualifies as a Sneak Attack. This improves to a standard action at 5th, a move at 9th, a swift at 13th, and a free action (1/round) at 17th. Each Auto-Sneak Attack gives a cumulative -5 to hit to all Auto-Sneak Attacks. e.g. 1st attack is at +0, 2nd is at -5, 3rd is at -10, 4th is at -15. Multiple Auto-Sneak Attacks are possible in a round.
-Skill boosters: At 3rd, 7th, 11th, 15th, and 19th levels, the Rogue gets +1/2 level and the skill unlock of a skill besides Disable Device. The Rogue starts with the Disable Device skill unlock at 1st level. This replaces Rogue's Edge.
-Hide in Plain Sight at 14th level.
-Divination Evasion at 16th level. Rogues may make a save to negate Divinations that have no save. Against all divinations that would have otherwise been negated, the Rogue may instead send selective information or make a Bluff check to send false information.

[Kaisoku]

Regarding the Druid and metal...

I look at it similarly to how the two major factions are portrayed in the Thief games: the hammerites and the pagans.

Both are pretty gruesome, the hammerites for being fanatical and the pagan for being almost inhuman in their animal amorality.

The impression I got was that while there is natural order in predation and harvest and using what is killed for food, for clothing and tools as well, the pagan tended to let nature go as it would and be a part of it. In fact, a lot of nature requires death: a berry is picked such that the seed may be carried and "planted" after passing through an animals digestion.
These pagans follow the Trickster, a sort of chaotic living god of nature.

The hammerites follow the "Builder", who showed them the way to take from the land (cutting down trees, carving out rock and metal, and shaping them to their own will), conquering nature to build structures or items of purely human thought.
While it can be part of a natural process to kill an animal for food, and then use its skin or bone, it is not the same to shape the tree, stone or metal into completely human design, breaking that natural process.

The game had quotes from the game world's lore that pertained to the the factions being dealt with in a given level. This one probably sums it up best (chillingly so):

Builds your roofs of dead wood.
Builds your walls of dead stone.
Builds your dreams of dead thoughts.
Comes crying laughing singing back to life, takes what you steal,
and pulls the skins from your dead bones shrieking.
-- Clay tablet in an abandoned Trickster temple

..
..

With this in mind, I might look at weapons and armor being restricted to bone and leathers, with a possible improvement in the form of un-shaped wood or rock (such as onyx shard) or fire hardened wood found after a forest fire, etc.

Then spells that can create "living shaped wood", such as a tree being formed into a weapon or armor, with the spell keeping it alive; it becomes a heavier or more reliable armor/weapon that is in keeping with their ethos.

Note, too, that a druid can (and likely should) resort to wildshaping for their combat effectiveness. Equipment typically being subsume in the transformation anyways.
If the wildshape ability is designed with very limited weapon/armor proficiencies in mind, it can shape the druid into this kind of playstyle.

[Doki-Chan]

Both Seeker Archetypes could have this attached as part of either Seeker Lore or Tinkering, i.e. an SLA once a day or even added to cantrips/orisons: Sift Spell (level 0) ?

It's sort of in their idiom...

[The Sideromancer]

JosMartigan wrote:

Alternate materials is a great concept but anything I've ever read about wood, stone, obsidian, bone, horn, coral, shells, etc. since Dark Sun 2nd Edition makes those materials really inferior compared to steel (which is probably true in most cases), but even bronze sucks by comparison. Magic used to fix those issues tends to be mid-level so a druid wouldn't be able to defend himself martially at low levels regardless.

An option could be an archetype (or even an ability added to the core class) that allows a druid to ignore or offset the penalties due to his devotion.

Thematically a druid in leafy-looking leather or intricately carved wooden armor is amazing and having weapons that are crafted similarly is also great. But of course, those might just be magical items, artifacts, or relics anyway.

Coolest looking druid armour to me is copper-plated steel with the designs etched by precision applications of rusting grasp. Green on brown with no extra pigments.

[Atarlost]

Druids don't need an equipment restriction. It's hardly relevant when wildshaped and they aren't better than similar classes with no such restriction when not.

[RedDingo]

The Sideromancer wrote:

I can accept most of pathfinder, but the rejection of metals makes me touchy like some people get touchy about alignment.

You're confusing the Druid's prohibition for something that is rooted in the physical rather than the metaphysical. Metal which is derived from the earth is rooted in the concept of industry rather than the natural cycle of life and death. Now if it the metal in question derived from biological organisms, if it was a part of a plant or animal before it was used in crafting, such as iron taken from the bloodstream, etc, then that would be suitable argument for a type metal armor/shield that the druid could wear without consequence...of course the amount of blood needed to create a suit of armor would have nightmarish connotations.

However this should mean that armor made from living steel should bypass the metal prohibition.

[The Sideromancer]

RedDingo wrote:

The Sideromancer wrote:

I can accept most of pathfinder, but the rejection of metals makes me touchy like some people get touchy about alignment.

You're confusing the Druid's prohibition for something that is rooted in the physical rather than the metaphysical. Metal which is derived from the earth is rooted in the concept of industry rather than the natural cycle of life and death. Now if it the metal in question derived from biological organisms, if it was a part of a plant or animal before it was used in crafting, such as iron taken from the bloodstream, etc, then that would be suitable argument for a type metal armor/shield that the druid could wear without consequence...of course the amount of blood needed to create a suit of armor would have nightmarish connotations.

However this should mean that armor made from living steel should bypass the metal prohibition.

What about stone plate? Currently it is "Druid-safe," despite its description of being (al)chemically treated stone being also applicable to most metals, and more industry-based than gold.

Edit: Magic reacts in predictable ways to stimuli. I find no meaningful distinction between the physical and metaphysical.

[RedDingo]

Huh...good point about the stone plate. Perhaps the alchemical treatment involves saturating the stone in organic fluids (alchemists fiddled a lot with urine and the like) rendering the material "natural" enough not to the hinder the druid's abilities. Perhaps this same process can or cannot be applied to metal armor without irreparably damaging the material. Or perhaps stone plate shouldn't be allowed for druids too.

In some ways that's true but in some ways it isn't. The classical elements and vitalism are rubbish according to our modern understanding of physics and chemistry. Yet in Pathfinder, the Material Plane is born from the Four Elemental Planes interacting with the Positive Energy Plane. Unlike real life metaphysics has a measurable effect on the physical world. Only people of a certain alignment can normally channel positive or negative energy or gain powers from a specific deity(with Neutral people having to make a choice and stick with it). Souls exist, they leave the body at death and normally end up in an afterlife in accordance to actions. Thoughts and feelings leave a measurable imprint on physical objects and locations.

So Druids, deriving their power from the biosphere, would require clothing and armor that does not clash with their metaphysical connection to organic life...

But honestly, it's your call for your game really. I'm just indulging in thought experiment.

[Grumbaki]

Warpriest and Fighters get 2 extra skill points per level. These skill points must be put into Profession, Craft, Knowledge (Engineering), or Knowledge (Religion/Dungeoneering).

This way your fighter/warpriest can do something out of combat. For example...

lvl 1 Warpriest of Brigh (Goddess of Invention) with intelligence 10.
1 skill point: Profession (Engineer)
1 skill point: Knowledge (Engineering)
1 skill point: Diplomacy
1 skill point: Survival

The character can now do something out of combat, while still having alot of flavor.

[The Sideromancer]

The problem I have with symbolism as a part of a class is this: while it would be entirely reasonable to have a druidic sect that believes use of metal armour is unnatural and to be avoided, it would also be reasonable to say that about summoning (it had a thread a while back), or almost anything, really. This doesn't mean that druids should not be able to use summoning spells. It also confuses me that rangers and hunters use the same holy symbols (holly symbols?), but don't have this restriction

thought experiments are interesting:

Suppose we have a multiclass Druid/Cleric who worships Gorum. Nothing exists to distinguish a Cleric's CLW scroll from a Druid's. Hence, there is no important difference between varieties of divine CLW.

Suppose our unfavourably multiclassed character is attempting to cast CLW while wearing metal armour. Let's have them channel negative energy so it has to be prepared either way. We now have a situation where the same energy (Gorum's power) is being channelled through the same circumstances to the same result (divine CLW).

Reasonably, with all other conditions the same, we would expect the same result regardless of which spell slot is used. The difference points to an inconsistency in the laws of magic. I like consistency, and this would be perfectly fine if one could cast Druid spells in metal armour.

*Worshipping Gorum only prevents the inactivity from lasting longer than the period in which the armour is worn, it does not allow for casting in metal armour

[GreyWolfLord]

I'm going the opposite way of others here.

Any spellcaster that takes damage while casting a spell or immediately prior to casting a spell, loses the spell they were going to cast.''

If no actual damage is taken, but there is a disturbance (loud fighting, screaming, explosions, etc) they have to make a concentration check.

[Atarlost]

GreyWolfLord wrote:

I'm going the opposite way of others here.

Any spellcaster that takes damage while casting a spell or immediately prior to casting a spell, loses the spell they were going to cast.''

If no actual damage is taken, but there is a disturbance (loud fighting, screaming, explosions, etc) they have to make a concentration check.

That would be reasonable if instead of losing the spell you fail to cast it without losing the slot. Or if all spells were at will and limited only by concentration checks. Losing an extremely limited feature that may be the only meaningful thing you can ever do is too much of a weakness.

[Derklord]

Extremely limited feature? Spells? Only at the first few levels.

[Atarlost]

Derklord wrote:

Extremely limited feature? Spells? Only at the first few levels.

About a half dozen combat relevant slots compared to more than twice your level in rounds of e.g rage.

[Bandw2]

if you take damage while casting a spell it's already add to the concentration check. most likely you're going to lose it anyway.

As for how'd i fix magic.

from myself a while ago wrote:

you need X many spells from that school to get that level of spell. with the formula basically being half of the spell level squared rounding down. (with classes that require spells known requiring half as many.)
0 = 0
1 = 0
2 = 2(1)
3 = 4(2)
4 = 8(4)
5 = 12(6)
6 = 18(9)
7 = 24(12)
8 = 32(16)
9 = 40(20)

Also, I'd only count spells you gain for your class for this total. Wizards only count spells in the spell book, sorcerers only count spells in their... blood? so that items and what not can't inflate your standing in a school.

maybe other neat dynamics could be added to, like removing wizard's school and opposition school's current benefits (besides powers) and instead your primary school requires half, and your oppositions require double. This way if your opposition school is destruction, you simply will almost be incapable of taking high level destruction spells while still being able to cast the ones you do have as easy as the rest.

on top of this, several spells need rebalancing so that they're in the right spell level to be worth the cost, several are simply too high up for instance, while a few are too low.

no more picking up fireball when you haven't ever cast an evocation spell before.

[RedDingo]

Atarlost wrote:

About a half dozen combat relevant slots compared to more than twice your level in rounds of e.g rage.

Mistakenly faq's your post when I was trying to reply. Spellcasters get to be gods at higher levels and there is a feat for not losing a spell slot when you flub a concentration check. Plus combat is just about the only thing a barbarian or a fighter can contribute to. Whereas a wisely built and/or properly placed wizard could go Old Man Henderson on the campaign.

[UnArcaneElection]

The Sideromancer wrote:

{About Druids wearing metal armor . . .}

Metal is *****ing Natural::

There are fewer changes to the substance when making gold armour than leather armour, implying that if all metal is banned, leather would be too.
Elements such as carbon and oxygen would not exist in distributions that allow for the complexity of life without supernovae, i.e. without iron.
The atmosphere would have been blown away long before life could emerge if it weren't for massive amounts of iron and nickel producing a magnetic field.
Hydrogen, the most prevalent element, is a metallic (sometimes superconducting) liquid at high pressures.
Speaking of hydrogen, it works as a metal (i.e. a positive ion) in biological systems.
Bioinorganic chemistry in general, such as the fact that most respiration proteins require metals to function.
Nerve signals rely on Sodium and Potassium, both metals.

I can accept most of pathfinder, but the rejection of metals makes me touchy like some people get touchy about alignment.

Ssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh . . . don't tell that to the Druids. They might implode from catastrophic Paradox Backlash . . . .

[Maneuvermoose]

The Sideromancer wrote:

Metal is *****ing Natural::

Wat? I thought metal was a closed-source graphics API for iOS devices! It's totally artificial. Maybe the reason druids can't use metal is because they hate Apple software, since it was plucked from an artificial apple orchard. Henceforth, druids are permitted to wear armor made from DirectX, OpenGL/OpenGL ES, Vulkan, and Mesa. But no Metal allowed.

[Goth Guru]

Besides where would you plug in your amps? You cant have heavy metal rock without amps!

To be serious, only copper occurs naturally in that form. Iron has to be cooked out of the ore.

[Derklord]

Leather doesn't occur naturally in that form, either. Tanning is a pretty effortful process, and not exactly the most environment friendly one.

In Pathfinder, you don't need amps - you got spells and magic items for that! If we can have Pipes that can sound like anything, crafting a magic guitar with Sculpt Sound and/or Ghost Sound should definitly be able to produce the equivalent of an electric guitar. The loudness depends on the caster level (because higher level casters rock harder, duh). The singer only need Elixir of the Thundering Voice, btw.

[Vidmaster7]

JosMartigan wrote:

The Sideromancer wrote:

Druids can use metal armour without penalty, but take the spell failure chance on heavy armour, regardless of type.

That would violate the ethos of the character class as a champion of nature; metal armor being a representation of the civilization of men. Scimitars and sickles were (IMO) an concession by game designers to give druids some kind of weapons that weren't clubs and quarterstaves.

Rangers had no such issues since originally they were conceived as defenders of civilization against nature not warriors of nature as they have become.

actually wasn't so much a concession as fitting the theme on whom the druid class was based

[Bandw2]

I think the point is metals in general are generally poisonous to life, I don't think druids like metal because of how natural it is, just that they're most about plants and animals. Later people started adding earth s+++ in there and now nothing makes sense...

[Vidmaster7]

Its mostly grandfathered in from 1st edition and on they read stories with them in it and took what made sense to them at the time from the stories and made the druid as we know it today. There may not really be much rhyme or reason to it for that fact alone.

[Melkiador]

I never understood why monks are so associated with law. I'd probably remove the law based abilities and restrictions.

[Sarcasm Dragon]

Bandw2 wrote:

I think the point is metals in general are generally poisonous to life,

Oh, yea, having iron in your body is horrible! It's not like your body uses iron in hemoglobin! Iron deficiency is a totally healthy condition, and not a common cause of dizziness, fatigue, or a weakened immune system!

[Bandw2]

Sarcasm Dragon wrote:

Bandw2 wrote:

I think the point is metals in general are generally poisonous to life,

Oh, yea, having iron in your body is horrible! It's not like your body uses iron in hemoglobin! Iron deficiency is a totally healthy condition, and not a common cause of dizziness, fatigue, or a weakened immune system!

i suppose I should say heavy metals(mercury, lead), oxides are useful for transporting oxygen but too much can be an issue, though it's really hard to get too much. Though this is only due to low amounts of iron in the environment. to be clear less than half a gram of iron(~50 mg of pure iron really) is considered toxic if ingested. Also apparently eating that much is likely to cause you to throw up blood...

Also shrapnel in your body is pretty bad too until it cysts over.

Like seriously, metals are extremely reactive and destructive if you get an amount that your system can't handle and that amount is pretty low.

[The Sideromancer]

Bandw2 wrote:

Sarcasm Dragon wrote:

Bandw2 wrote:

I think the point is metals in general are generally poisonous to life,

Oh, yea, having iron in your body is horrible! It's not like your body uses iron in hemoglobin! Iron deficiency is a totally healthy condition, and not a common cause of dizziness, fatigue, or a weakened immune system!

i suppose I should say heavy metals(mercury, lead), oxides are useful for transporting oxygen but too much can be an issue, though it's really hard to get too much. Though this is only due to low amounts of iron in the environment. to be clear less than half a gram of iron(~50 mg of pure iron really) is considered toxic if ingested. Also apparently eating that much is likely to cause you to throw up blood...

Also shrapnel in your body is pretty bad too until it cysts over.

Like seriously, metals are extremely reactive and destructive if you get an amount that your system can't handle and that amount is pretty low.

High toxicity is nowhere near unique to metals. HCN, anyone?

[Bandw2]

The Sideromancer wrote:

Bandw2 wrote:

Sarcasm Dragon wrote:

Bandw2 wrote:

I think the point is metals in general are generally poisonous to life,

Oh, yea, having iron in your body is horrible! It's not like your body uses iron in hemoglobin! Iron deficiency is a totally healthy condition, and not a common cause of dizziness, fatigue, or a weakened immune system!

i suppose I should say heavy metals(mercury, lead), oxides are useful for transporting oxygen but too much can be an issue, though it's really hard to get too much. Though this is only due to low amounts of iron in the environment. to be clear less than half a gram of iron(~50 mg of pure iron really) is considered toxic if ingested. Also apparently eating that much is likely to cause you to throw up blood...

Also shrapnel in your body is pretty bad too until it cysts over.

Like seriously, metals are extremely reactive and destructive if you get an amount that your system can't handle and that amount is pretty low.

High toxicity is nowhere near unique to metals. HCN, anyone?

yeah but water with iron in it can damage trees and other plants. which is what I was trying to point out.

[The Sideromancer]

Bandw2 wrote:

The Sideromancer wrote:

Bandw2 wrote:

Sarcasm Dragon wrote:

Bandw2 wrote:

I think the point is metals in general are generally poisonous to life,

Oh, yea, having iron in your body is horrible! It's not like your body uses iron in hemoglobin! Iron deficiency is a totally healthy condition, and not a common cause of dizziness, fatigue, or a weakened immune system!

i suppose I should say heavy metals(mercury, lead), oxides are useful for transporting oxygen but too much can be an issue, though it's really hard to get too much. Though this is only due to low amounts of iron in the environment. to be clear less than half a gram of iron(~50 mg of pure iron really) is considered toxic if ingested. Also apparently eating that much is likely to cause you to throw up blood...

Also shrapnel in your body is pretty bad too until it cysts over.

Like seriously, metals are extremely reactive and destructive if you get an amount that your system can't handle and that amount is pretty low.

High toxicity is nowhere near unique to metals. HCN, anyone?

yeah but water with iron in it can damage trees and other plants. which is what I was trying to point out.

Not arguing that, arguing that its toxicity is not the most relevant. Why do Druids care anyway, they're immune to poison

[137ben]

Water WITHOUT iron can damage plants: distilled water can cause cell damage. Should druids be banned from using water?

[137ben]

Also, in 3.5 at least, the core rules use the term "natural" to describe abilities which are not Ex, Su, Sp, or spells. I'm AFB and on my phone now, so I can't easily check if PF kept the same terminology, but if so, it would seem spellcasting would be contrary to being "natural". No more spells for druids!

[The Sideromancer]

137ben wrote:

Also, in 3.5 at least, the core rules use the term "natural" to describe abilities which are not Ex, Su, Sp, or spells. I'm AFB and on my phone now, so I can't easily check if PF kept the same terminology, but if so, it would seem spellcasting would be contrary to being "natural". No more spells for druids!

Of couse not, something can't be both natural and supernatural at the same time!

[Malignor]

Goth Guru wrote:

Fix Any Class

FIGHTER: Issues = lack of non-combat contribution, trained only in tools & techniques but no "military intel"

4 skill ranks/level. Add Knowledge (History) and Knowledge (Geography) as class skills.

+1/2 Fighter level on all knowledge checks to identify an enemy and/or their abilities.

Gain Bonus Feat at levels 3, 6, 9, 12, 15 and 18. Select from among [Acrobatic, Alertness, Animal Affinity, Athletic, Deceitful, Endurance, Fleet, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Magical Aptitude, Persuasive, Run, Self-Sufficient, Skill Focus, Stealthy]

MONK: Issues = maneuverability & flurry don't work together at all. Casters get way more spells that Monks get Ki.

Full Base Attack.

Flurry with any weapon that the monk has proficiency in, including weapon proficiencies acquired through feats or race (but not other classes).

Spend 1 Ki as part of a charge action to perform a pounce maneuver.

Spend 1 Ki to charge indirectly, allowing leaps and turns in a charge. This can be combined with the pounce (total 2 Ki).

Recover Ki at a rate of 1 per consecutive minute of meditation. A monk can initiate this meditation as many times per day equal to 3+CON bonus. The length of meditation is not limited.

ROGUE: Issues = relying on full attack for SA damage is lame. Lacks combat ability, and talents are mostly useless

Combat Style - At level 4, select a combat style, and one feat from the list for that style. At levels 10 and 16, get another feat from the same list. The Rogue need not take Combat Expertise as a prerequisite. When using any of these feats and they depend upon CMB or attack rolls, treat Rogue levels as Warrior levels for the Base Attack portion when calculating CMB:

Cheater [Catch Off-Guard, Improved Dirty Trick, Greater Dirty Trick, Improved Trip, Greater Trip]

Thief [Improved Disarm, Greater Disarm, Improved Steal, Greater Steal, Skill Focus - Sleight of Hand]

Thug [Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Stunning Fist, Intimidating Prowess, Skill Focus - Intimidate]

Coward [Dodge, Mobility, Run, Skill Focus - Bluff, Fleet]

Showoff [Antagonize, Dazzling Display, Skill Focus - Intimidate, Shatter Defenses, Weapon Focus]

Killer [Improved Initiative, Quickdraw, Skill Focus - Stealth, Improved Feint, Greater Feint]

Murderous Strike - at level 6, the Rogue’s Sneak attack dice are doubled when the sneak attack is delivered by a standard attack action.

UPDATED ROGUE TALENTS

Charmer: Instead of working only once per day, this works with every check except retries.

Convincing Lie: Making a bluff check by proxy means that the proxy can convince yet another person.

Fast Fingers: Instead of working once per day, it can only be used once per day on any given mark. This means that the Rogue can use this once per target each day.

Hard to Fool: Instead of working once per day, it works every time, but only against bluff checks. This isn’t useful for doing a cold read, hunches, or determining if someone’s under an enchantment.

Hold Breath: Instead of adding rounds, this gives +8 to the Constitution checks to continue holding breath.

Honeyed Words: Instead of uses per day, this can be used on any check to lie, but can’t be used for other bluff checks (like feint, distract or canter)

Ki Pool: Ki is WIS modifier, plus 1/2 rogue levels. Using Ki is a full round action which requires concentration (like spells), but the effect can be used up to 1 minute after using the Ki. Ki can be spent to get +10’ to movement (also adding +4 to running jumps) for one round, or a single haste-attack on a full attack action, or +3 bonus to dodge (AC and CMD) for 1 round, or +5 on a single skill check which takes a minute or less to perform.

Minor Magic: Gain a cantrip of choice... a proper cantrip, not an SLA. Spellcraft and knowledge arcana become class skills. Rogues use Intelligence as a casting stat, functioning as a wizard.

Major Magic: Gain a 1st level spell known, two 1st level spell slots, plus another cantrip (total 2/2).

Greater Magic (NEW): Get a 2nd level spell known, two 2nd level spell slots, a 1st level spell known and 2 additional 1st level slots, and another cantrip (total 3/4/2).

Peerless Maneuver: Instead of once per day, this takes 1d4 rounds to recover. It can be used while still recovering, but then the Rogue takes 1d6 point of damage and a point of strength damage from damaged tendons and the like. Only by waiting the 1d4 rounds can the Rogue use this again safely.

Positioning Attack: Instead of once per day moving 30’, this works with every sneak attack but only gives a 5’ step

Powerful Sneak: Instead of 1s becoming 2s, each 1 adds an additional 1d6. This is recursive.

Rogue Crawl: This also removes the AC penalty from being prone. Further, once per day, the rogue can attack a melee opponent from prone as if flanking, even when there is no actual flank.

Survivalist: In addition to being class skills, the rogue also gains the Self Sufficient feat once either of these skills have 5 ranks.

Confounding Blades (advanced): This is redundant with Slow Reactions. Instead, it prevents any attack actions at all, for one round, as the weapons are tied up.

Deadly Sneak (advanced): Now 1s and 2s each add an additional die.

Entanglement of Blades (advanced): This also removes 5’ of movement per d6 of sneak attack damage, to all the creature’s movement modes, for one round.

Hunter’s Surprise (advanced): The rogue can take a penalty to attack rolls, adding that penalty to their effective levels for countering Improved Uncanny Dodge. A penalty of 1 or more also counters a target’s Uncanny Dodge.

Master of Disguise: Instead of +10 1/day, this gives a constant +6. The greatest advantage is that this stacks with feats like Skill Focus

Redirect Attack: Instead of once per day, this can be used at will by holding an action.

Thoughtful Reexamination: Instead of once per day, this can be used at will by spending 1 minute in concentration. It’s not recursive (so can’t retry on a retry).

[Blackwaltzomega]

Fighter: 4+INT Skill Ranks, strong Reflex Save, Perception and Heal as class skills, give 'em the Samurai's Resolve and call it a day. 4+INT should be the baseline for non-INT classes anyway, it always broke my suspension of disbelief that the so-called "living weapon" Fighter has worse reflexes than a man who sings for his supper, and have you SERIOUSLY ever heard of a professional soldier or mercenary that doesn't have analyzing their surroundings and treating minor injuries in their bag of tricks?

Swashbuckler: Acquires a strong Fort save, like it should have always had from BOTH of its parent classes, replace Charmed life with the ability to use Charisma instead of Wisdom for Will saves, which gives it roughly the same capabilities save-wise as the Ranger and the Unchained Monk in that it's got two strong physical saves and compensates for a weak mental save by being able to bolster it with their primarily mental stat, while eliminating the problem that Charmed Life interferes with using deeds and a martial who runs out of important resources faster than a caster is just silly. I'd also give them a deed that lets them move up to half their speed as a swift action by spending panache, to better reflect that the class is supposed to be a fighter who "darts around the battlefield", and therefore should have class features that let it move around a lot. Personally I would also give it some other non-combat deeds, like being able to "wall run" when they still have some panache (you can move as though under the effects of Spider Climb, but you have to end your movement on a surface you can stand on normally or make a climb check not to fall to the floor prone?) and a counterpart to derring-do for social skills to bring across the style and charm aspect of things.

[Grumbaki]

Malignor wrote:

Goth Guru wrote:

Fix Any Class

FIGHTER: Issues = lack of non-combat contribution, trained only in tools & techniques but no "military intel"

4 skill ranks/level. Add Knowledge (History) and Knowledge (Geography) as class skills.

+1/2 Fighter level on all knowledge checks to identify an enemy and/or their abilities.

Gain Bonus Feat at levels 3, 6, 9, 12, 15 and 18. Select from among [Acrobatic, Alertness, Animal Affinity, Athletic, Deceitful, Endurance, Fleet, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Magical Aptitude, Persuasive, Run, Self-Sufficient, Skill Focus, Stealthy]

I personally think that all of this ins't necessary. In my mind, Lore Warden's "4 int per rank, 2 must go towards 'x'" is all that is needed.

Fighters and Warpriests get 2 Skill points per level + Int, and an additional 2. The additional 2 must be spent on a profession, craft or knowledge skill.

Easy change. Doesn't make them into a skill monkey, or give them a half dozen more feats to keep track of. But lets them do something outside of combat.

[Goth Guru]

Let druids wear armor made of unprocessed iron ore. It's basicly rock. It can be affected by magnetism. From flack jackets with IO sewn between layers to rocky full plate it will make rules sticklers have a head explosion.

You could instead have elemental and seasonal focus for Druids. Druids with earth/mineral focus can have metal armor, but they can't use air oriented spells. The spring Druid also has all the healing and growth spells. They can select a bonus spell of each level from these guidelines, in addition to wisdom bonus spells.

Air focused druids can not have heavy armor but can use wind, flying, and levitating spells.

Water focused druids can cast swiming, air breathing, spells and such. Armor and shields made of shells are allowed. They cannot cast fire/heat spells. They can cast cold/ice spells. The fall and winter druids are further split from this. Fall is more rain and necromantic based. Winter is necromantic and ice based.

Fire focused druids can cast all the fire based spells, and use metal armor. Fire is involved in making metal armor. The Summer Druid is a subset of this. They also have growth magic.

General rules, Druids with an elemental bent can elect to have an animal companion with that elemental orientation. A fire druid can have a hell hound companion that they enlarge for combat, as long as there is no major alignment conflict.

Druids can instead focus on animals or plants, giving up unrelated elemental spells. An animal focused Druid can have a magical beast companion, but will not summon elementals. A plant based druid can turn into, summon, and have a plant monster animal companion.

Druids that choose not to focus must use druids right out of the rulebooks.

[Green Smashomancer]

Blackwaltzomega wrote:

Fighter: 4+INT Skill Ranks, strong Reflex Save, Perception and Heal as class skills, give 'em the Samurai's Resolve and call it a day. 4+INT should be the baseline for non-INT classes anyway, it always broke my suspension of disbelief that the so-called "living weapon" Fighter has worse reflexes than a man who sings for his supper, and have you SERIOUSLY ever heard of a professional soldier or mercenary that doesn't have analyzing their surroundings and treating minor injuries in their bag of tricks?

Swashbuckler: Acquires a strong Fort save, like it should have always had from BOTH of its parent classes, replace Charmed life with the ability to use Charisma instead of Wisdom for Will saves, which gives it roughly the same capabilities save-wise as the Ranger and the Unchained Monk in that it's got two strong physical saves and compensates for a weak mental save by being able to bolster it with their primarily mental stat, while eliminating the problem that Charmed Life interferes with using deeds and a martial who runs out of important resources faster than a caster is just silly. I'd also give them a deed that lets them move up to half their speed as a swift action by spending panache, to better reflect that the class is supposed to be a fighter who "darts around the battlefield", and therefore should have class features that let it move around a lot. Personally I would also give it some other non-combat deeds, like being able to "wall run" when they still have some panache (you can move as though under the effects of Spider Climb, but you have to end your movement on a surface you can stand on normally or make a climb check not to fall to the floor prone?) and a counterpart to derring-do for social skills to bring across the style and charm aspect of things.

Agreed on those points, but for the swashbuckler, some of the points you mention can be dealt with. It even keeps Derring-do, for what little it's worth.