Cleric / Wizard Hybrid Class?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


I was really impressed by the Hybrid Classes represented in ACG, but was disappointed with no Cleric/Wizard - Mystic Theurge class, similar to how the Magus replaced the Eldritch Knight.

Does anyone know if there has been an official Paizo supplement or otherwise a 3rd party Class that has been done to replace the Mystic Theurge as a Hybrid Class? If so, could you please direct me to where?

Thank you very much!


I've been working on trying to make a Mystic Theurge work, and it seems that if you use (and are allowed to use) the Spellcasting Guild system from Inner Sea Magic, you can do very well, though this subsystem relies very, very heavily on how the GM wishes to adjudicate it (it's... pretty broken for anyone who isn't a Mystic Theurge. They need it.)

The system expects your character to take 5 guild tests per level, and along with each test (semester), you're able to complete one or more sidequests for your guild. This means that you can expect to earn 5-7 Fame per level with a modicum of effort.

Upon reaching 5 Fame (pretty effortless), you earn Esoteric Training, which says to pick a spellcasting class, and you increase your effective casting level in that class by 1 - *including* spells known and spells per day (same wording as a PrC that advances spellcasting) - up to a maximum of your character level.

So, at 2nd level, you can be a wizard 1/cleric 1 with 2nd level casting ability in one of those classes (set Magical Knack for the other.)

By 5th level, you're a wizard/cleric 2/3 or 3/2, but effectively 3/3 thanks to Esoteric Training, so you can enter Mystic Theurge at 6.

So at 6, you're effectively a 4/4, at 7 you're 5/5 - well, you would be except...

When you get to Fame 35 (so let's say around level 7), your Esoteric Training improves to Eclectic Training, which says to increase the bonus from Esoteric Training to *3*, and to choose a 2nd spellcasting class to give a +1 bonus to.

So at 7, for the class you have 2 levels in, you're casting as a 5th level caster + 2 from Mystic Theurge (otherwise known as full caster!) For the class you have 3 levels in, you're casting as a 4th level caster + 2 from Mystic Theurge for level 6 casting (with a full caster level thanks to Magical Knack.)

This continues to level 15, where you're casting as a 15/14. At 16, you put another level into your 14 caster to hit 15 so that you have 8th level spells in both classes.

At 17 & 18, you take 2 more levels in one of your classes to hit spellcasting 17 for 9th level spells. At 19 & 20, you take 2 more levels in your other class to hit spellcasting 17 in that class, so your level 20 capstone is 9th level spells in both classes.

So, is this balanced?

Well... I think it is, actually. Your class features from both classes are abysmal, you're MAD, probably feat-starved - you can do one thing well, and that's cast spells (which is admittedly worth the effort.) You also still get to experience the classic suck that is leveling a Mystic Theurge for 6 levels, even with the blow being slightly softened early on thanks to Esoteric Training.

All that said, it'd be nice if there was a baseline hybrid class option that just did this. Seems like it'd be pretty easy to pull off.

Scarab Sages

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There are a few options that allow for a single-class divine-arcane hybrid existing from Paizo.

The Witch is an arcane caster with a list that included several divine spells. Expecially if you go with the Hex channeler or hedge witch archetypes with the healing patron.

The Ancient Lorekeeper oracle has access to an arcane spell of each level and works well as an divine/arcane hybrid.

Several Druids work in this role as well.

White Mage Arcanist can cast some heals, but they don't have full access to condition removal.

Liberty's Edge

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I can absolutely help!

Check out the Theurge class in the New Paths Compendium from Kobold Press!!! It's *exactly* what your are describing!

A few quotes from the various reviews:

"The Theurge is, in my opinion, a long needed addition to the game. The use of a "Prayer Book" elegantly handles the balance issues of giving a single class access to effectively every spell in the game."

"The Theurge! Oh my! Basically, this is a normal class version of the Mystic Theurge. You get both divine and arcane spellcasting progression, with both sides having halved spells per day. Additionally, each set of spellcasting uses a different ability score for save DCs. This Theurge has a lot of versatility, and can bring a lot of tools to any party."

"The Theurge is an amazing spellcaster that allows you to cast divine and arcane spells right from the get go, without having to make that climb into Paizo’s Mystic Theurge prestige class. Well fear no longer, because the Theurge can do that from level 1 and can even cast two spells at the same time given that one is arcane and one is divine. Their only downfall is how many spells per day they can actually pull off but then again, if they could cast all day like other classes, then it would be broken and probably banned from tables so I find it very balanced in that fact."


There are actually quite a lot of archetypes for spellcasting classes that gives them access to the other list.
My favorite is the Shaman with the Lore spirit.


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I've seen 3 or4 third party takes on the concept - if you want a prepared caster (and 3PP is okay at your table) - the Theurge that Marc mentioned is the best.

If you want a spontaneous caster - the Magister from RGG is the one you want.


Thanks for the information everyone, very helpful! Still disappointed with Paizo for their lack of true support though. *shakes fist ruefully*


What is Paizo's lack of support?
I doubt a base class mystic theurge was high on the priority list since the PrC already exists. Something may well likely be in the works. The hybrids they offered were more exciting than a wiz/cleric hybrid anyway, imo.


If I were to design a theoretical double-spell-list base class, I'd probably have it use 6th level casting progression on both sides.


The shaman is already an oracle/witch hybrid, so that's fairly close. The problem with a cleric/wizard hybrid is that there aren't a lot of actual class abilities to combine. It'd be all about making a spell list that would have to be careful not to obsolete the cleric or wizard they are based on. It doesn't sound like a lot of fun.

Making a double 6th level caster is intriguing, but people may not like the feel of taking a hybrid of 2 full caster classes to make a 6th level caster.

Liberty's Edge

Lord Mhoram wrote:

I've seen 3 or4 third party takes on the concept - if you want a prepared caster (and 3PP is okay at your table) - the Theurge that Marc mentioned is the best.

Thank you sir!

The Theurge has definitely received a lot of very positive buzz!

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yeah, the Theurge from the New Paths Compendium is sweet. I made one that lasted from levels 1 to 9 in Rappan Athuk and was super fun to play. The two spellbooks is a little fiddly, and you need to be good at preparing spells, but otherwise it's really fun.


See my accidental proto-mini-guide about how to be the only spellcaster in the party. Your options get easier to use if you don't need to be the Bard as well -- just drop the VMC Bard from most of the options and drop the Maestro Bloodline/Evangelist archetype/whatever from the ones that have these instead of VMC Bard.


I've actually considered that if you take the wizard class and took away the bonus spell slot for school spell and allowed them to cast spells from the cleric spell list (but requiring the spell to be in their spell book) that it really wouldn't be that particularly imbalanced.

The wizard is already the strongest class in the game. Doing this doesn't give it more action economy, more spell slot, or really anything except a bigger spell list.

And sure, the spell list is the most powerful part of the class but the majority of good spells are already on the wizard list.

Make one set of spells use int for DCs and the other wisdom.

I doubt it would make it terribly imbalanced.

Liberty's Edge

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Claxon, you should check out the Theurge! Although the class does get some additional abilities and class synergies, what you describe is more or less how the class works


Here's the link to the d20pfsrd for the theurge class mentioned. I still highly recommend buying the book as it's got a lot of other great stuff in it


I concur. I have the book and the Spell-less Ranger is the bomb diggity. Yeah, I said that.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I played a Theurge in the latter half of a Legacy of Fire AP, built around summoning (because my Summoner used a Wish to allow his Eidolon to be a free and independent being).

I really enjoyed the games in which I played it, because I would just summon loads of monsters, buff them ridiculously.

Liberty's Edge

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I concur - the Spell-less Ranger is indeed the bomb diggity :P

@M_aka_Dudemeister - that's awesome!!!! Glad you had fun with the Theurge! :)

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