Looking for some help:
Basically I'm reasonably experienced from a RPG perspective as a player. I have only been playing PF for about 4 years though.
I really want to give GMing at PF a go and am looking for some suitable modules (inc 3PP if necessary). I would like to do maybe a shorter module to sharpen my stilettos on and then have it lead on to a longer module.
What would you recommend?
I'm really looking for something that will help hone my GM skills.
Thanks!!
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Well, you have a few options.
First, if you are willing to make the commitment, then running an Adventure Path to completion can turn you into an expert pretty quick. In our group, we had a guy who never ran a game do Reign of Winter for us and became a really good GM by the end of it.
Second, if you want to take it slow then you can always give Pathfinder Society scenarios a shot. They are meant to be run in 4-5 hours and they are pretty straightforward; earlier scenarios are a bit incomplete in some areas (like stat blocks) but season 7 scenarios are pretty solid in making sure all the details you need are in the document. PFS is a pretty good way to both learn from a number of other GMs and build up your own chops. That being said, if there isn't a chapter in your area there is nothing to stop you from buying a few scenarios and running them for your home group instead, either for credit or not.
Chances are the people I'll be playing with will be pretty experienced players though... wont MOFF be a bit dull?
Pretty much what GM Rednal said
though if you want to start short go with a Pathfinder Society Scenario like The Confirmation or (really short) Silverhex Chronicles series
then move on to Master of the Fallen Fortress or other such shorter module
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I'd go with a dungeon for your first time out. There's usually only one way through so you can prep knowing basically what the party will do without having to suddenly make something up or start flipping pages wildly because they decided to go a direction you didn't expect.
If your players are experienced, Crypt of the Everflame is a fun module, if a little difficult for newbies. Also, the first level of Thornkeep is an enjoyable dungeon that doesn't run on too long. The Godsmouth Heresy is a lot of fun, but the dungeon is less linear.
Chances are the people I'll be playing with will be pretty experienced players though... wont MOFF be a bit dull?
if the people you are playing with are experienced
then they should understand that you are getting your feet wet with GMing and will make allowancesif not, then yes, try something as mentioned above that is really short and compartmentalized like Silverhex Chronicles or a PFS scenario or two in the 1-5 level bracket
that way you can gain some experience, they will not be too bored and then you can move on to something they will be happier with
but honestly your players should be willing to make some allowances at first to help a new GM get started
and you should communicate such to them
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I started GMing after I'd only been playing regularly for about 4 months. There was a ton of stuff I didn't know, but I learned it as I went because I had to look up so much stuff. I recommend reading through the scenario you choose at least twice, and read the stat blocks carefully, looking up powers you don't know. I recommend running something lower level to start---monsters you fight at first level are way simpler than monsters you fight at higher levels.
Looking through PFS scenarios, the one I've run that I would most recommend for a new GM is 4-18 The Veteran's Vault. It's a fun little dungeon crawl.
1) Run a basic adventure path (Rise of the Runelords)
2) Swap encounters/events with a different adventure path (Shattered Star)
3) ???
4) Profit
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I have to say, if you think Master of the Fallen Fortress is dull, don't run it. You won't have any fun if you aren't at least a little charmed by the subject matter.
I have to say, if you think Master of the Fallen Fortress is dull, don't run it. You won't have any fun if you aren't at least a little charmed by the subject matter.
this
if you read the scenario/quest/module and go 'meh' then it is not really something you should run as one of your first couple of games
My prep always goes better when I am excited about running the content and/or GMing for great fun players
I'm not sure it made me any better a GM--probably not--but throwin' in a vote for creating one's own adventure. I had an absolute blast, from the very beginning, creating my own NPC's and encounters. It mainly was a dungeon, that first go-'round--like already mentioned, however you do things, it really can help cutting down the number of directions a group of troublemaking PC's can go while you're learning the ropes.
Best advice I have is run something you want to play in. Those adventures are always the best. If there is a module or adventure that just tugs at you as something you'd want to play then that would make a good start. Also if you have the time and are so inclined, most DM I know, and a few I taught, got their feet wet designing their own adventures and dungeons, but this approach is not for everybody
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Chances are the people I'll be playing with will be pretty experienced players though... wont MOFF be a bit dull?if the people you are playing with are experienced
then they should understand that you are getting your feet wet with GMing and will make allowances
This. Most experienced players, especially if they are also GMs, want new GMs in the community so they can play more. They will be helpful and tolerant of mistakes.
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This. Most experienced players, especially if they are also GMs, want new GMs in the community so they can play more. They will be helpful and tolerant of mistakes.Chances are the people I'll be playing with will be pretty experienced players though... wont MOFF be a bit dull?if the people you are playing with are experienced
then they should understand that you are getting your feet wet with GMing and will make allowances
It was exactly what I was going to say. ^
I'm not sure it made me any better a GM--probably not--but throwin' in a vote for creating one's own adventure. I had an absolute blast, from the very beginning, creating my own NPC's and encounters. It mainly was a dungeon, that first go-'round--like already mentioned, however you do things, it really can help cutting down the number of directions a group of troublemaking PC's can go while you're learning the ropes.
absolutely not in this case
if you are new to GMing then take it slowthere is plenty of time to create your own adventures later once you have the basics down of actually running a game
Just run something you are interested in, something you think would be fun to run and fun to play in, and don't worry that it won't be perfect, that you will screw up, and that you will make all sorts of mistakes.
Those bad things will probably happen, but they also most likely won't ruin anyone's fun and you will hopefully make less mistakes as time goes on.
If only perfect GMs ran games, there wouldn't be any.
I've never run a Paizo or 3PP module, so I can't really suggest anything helpful. I'm the GM 95% of the time (and have been for 31 years) and while it can wear on you sometimes it's sometimes it's a very rewarding feeling knowing you've led your players on a fantastic game. So good luck and have fun!
Whatever you choose to run, if time allows you could roll up a character to run through the module, solo.
Go ahead and make allowances for fudging rolls, the point is to make you focus on likely choices the players will make and call your attention to whatever rules you're not familiar with.
I like to load the maps onto a virtual tabletop and follow a logical path, referring to the key to make sense of things. Map keys are seldom laid out this way, instead being numbered top to bottom, left to right. You'll get a much better feel for the flow of the dungeon.
There are a few advice threads (like this one) on the forum, which can provide a lot of quality help. My personal favorite advice sources are gnomestew (an advice blog), and Unframed which is full of excellent articles from veteran GMs about improvisational gaming, developing immersion, and world-building.
All of that said, on to your actual question: the thing I find new (and some veteran) GMs struggle with the most is providing adequate amounts of flavor-text, and visual description, so my recommendation is to run We Be Goblins. Goblins are hilarious, cute, and easy to role-play---everyone can enjoy it, it's well written, and does more than half your work for you.
We be goblins is outstanding and really easy to run.
GMing for people more experienced than you can go one of two ways, they can be either a painful handful or easy going crowd.
If you're starting out, you will make many mistakes. Some of these mistakes might even cause crippling problems that will plague your game later on. (Compounding this is if you have problem players).
Realistically I don't think you'll be able to finish an adventure path, more than likely you'll be able to run for a few years before thing peeters out of steam naturally (usually life steals away players). Or problems may even destroy your game.
With the cynical preamble out of the way, you're better off picking a few modules and after a few you'll most likely start modifying them to suit your group or writing your own. Have a short "what do you want/expect" with your prospective players and choose an adventure based on that.
Even better is to open with a throw away set of modules/short campaign like the awesome "We Be Goblins" and you'll get an understanding of your players and be able reset and tailor your experience for them.
GMing is really awesome fun though!
Thanks for the all feedback!
My gut feeling is that I'll do a couple of short one offs (eg We Be Goblins) to loosen up and learn a few things but then I'll be brave....a bit of who dares wins.... and do an adventure path. I mean seriously whats the worse that can happen right?!
Ideally Id like to get to a point where I can take an adventure path (or similar product) to use as my framework and then add in a few ideas of my own as bolt ons. I want to get comfortable in being able to go off on a tangent once in a while - all the best games I've been in have been ones where we've strayed off from the strict plot occasionally.
Kudos to you for taking on this role!
Keep in mind:
Ask for help. You're not playing a solo game, and you don't have to know all the rules by heart. Designate someone to be your PF reference person to look things up if a question arises during the game. You can stay focused on everything else you're running (ALL the NPCs; ALL the foes; setting the scene; creating the atmosphere; being a neutral referee) and the players know they have a role to play in making things go smoothly as well.
Have someone else track initiative. Again, you are tracking so much already, having another person at the table take on this one focus really helps during combat.
Be willing to change your mind. You might have made "a bad call." Be willing to admit it, and to retcon or do what you can to rectify the situation. If your players see that you aren't GMing "right or wrong, I'm right!", they'll be more supportive and cooperative.
Have fun. This is as important for you as it is for your players. Everyone deserves to have an enjoyable experience.
Good luck to you!
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My rule with players is that I'll make a ruling now, write down the question and vow to research the correct rule in time for next session.
Don't invite arguments over rules or debate which because it only stops gaming and makes life boring for the unaffected players.
Ideally Id like to get to a point where I can take an adventure path (or similar product) to use as my framework and then add in a few ideas of my own as bolt ons. I want to get comfortable in being able to go off on a tangent once in a while - all the best games I've been in have been ones where we've strayed off from the strict plot occasionally.
An easy "learner" is the first book of Mummy's Mask. Very dungeon-ish, very straight-forward, lots of cool monsters, and a simple plot (at least, very simple in the beginning).
My first experience as a GM was a Tomb of Horrors conversion that I found online, with a large group (10) of experienced players (I have a long history playing D&D/RPGs, since 1979, but not a ton of table-top experience). It was... strange. That was last May.
I then went straight to Mummy's Mask (after a vote) last fall for 7 of those 10 (down to 6 now) and haven't looked back. I'm now running 2 Giantslayer campaigns, one of which includes most of the crew from the Mummy's Mask campaign (one guy is gone for a few months so we switched), and the other is my son and his friends. Once my missing guy from Mummy's Mask returns, I'll be running Hell's Rebels with him and 2 others. Oh, and the absentee was our GM since I can remember (I started playing with him off and on 10 years ago).
My point is not to pat myself on the back, it's that once you get going, it's not nearly as daunting as it originally seems, just as many above have stated. I can already tell the difference in my grasp of the rules and ability to tell the story(ies) after only 6 months. It's certainly been rocky, but as long as your group is willing to work with you on certain aspects, you'll end up picking it all up rather quickly.
Also, as a GM, you still get to "play" in that you run your NPCs (generally), sometimes adding your own, which satisfies an itch that I like scratching, too. You also get to see how everyone thinks, which is an eye opener, IMHO. It is frustrating at times, but very rewarding overall.
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Thanks for the all feedback!
My gut feeling is that I'll do a couple of short one offs (eg We Be Goblins) to loosen up and learn a few things but then I'll be brave....a bit of who dares wins.... and do an adventure path. I mean seriously whats the worse that can happen right?!
Ideally Id like to get to a point where I can take an adventure path (or similar product) to use as my framework and then add in a few ideas of my own as bolt ons. I want to get comfortable in being able to go off on a tangent once in a while - all the best games I've been in have been ones where we've strayed off from the strict plot occasionally.
That's exactly what I did when I started GMing and it worked out pretty well. I ran two modules (Murder's Mark followed by Daughters of Fury) and then homebrewed something for the next bit. Also started running an adventure path shortly after that for a 2-person game.
Most of the advice has been covered already, but try to not worry too much. No one will expect you to be perfect (heck, even experienced GMs screw up sometimes). And since you've already been playing for awhile, you have a head start on someone who's new to both Pathfinder and GMing.
Mainly, just keep in mind that the GM's job is to make a memorable and enjoyable game for everyone. Don't be afraid to tailor some things to your players or make adjustments as needed. One of the common new-GM problems is not being able to adapt to things you didn't expect. When in doubt, try to go with where the players are leading you, even if it's a little off-track from where they're "supposed" to be per the module or AP or whatnot.
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We Be Goblins has a few sequels (I think we're up to WBG3?), so you can probably get 3-6 sessions out of the entire line.
I can't say this enough: run something that excites you. Not something that you're mildly interested in. Not something that you're ambivalent about. Something that you could corner someone at a party and babble about near the punch-bowl while they nervously try to make an escape. Your players experience the material once in the 4-8 hours you play a game. You are living with the material for at least twice that long as you prepare and play it.
Cheers everyone for the ideas
I'd start an AP ideally not one that another DM wants to run. Even if you run just the first book or two they are designed to individual adventures with a start middle and end, you might just need to alter a bit of the story.
I recommend Shattered star, Mummy's mask, Rise of the Runelords or Curse of the Crimson throne.
Skull and Shackles, Kingmaker, Hells Rebels, Iron Gods are probably a bit non-standard and harder to run.
Just my thoughts based on what I've seen.
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As an alternative, for once you start running something longer, is to jump in partway, using the first of the 64 page modules, The Dragon's Demand, which is designed to take PCs from first level up to 6th or 7th level for the grand finale.
It is long enough to start to get a feel for your GMing style, while being short enough to have a good chance to complete. It also offers a few places where you or your players can get derailed, or chase down some of the false rumors the module provides, for off-the-track adventures.
And, as it only goes for a few levels, you and your players will be able to get a sense of completion fairly quickly. APs take a lot of time and commitment to complete. And, once you get past a certain point, player and monster abilities start to go rocket tag, which can reduce the enjoyment.
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WBG I think is more complicated to run then MOFF, I usually start by running confirmation, first steps and crypt of everflame.
WBG is complicated because you're dealing with goblins, and players in goblin suits tend not to be very rational, and extremely pryomaniacal, that's not including what they think of fun.
We played catch the wasp nest like poison ball, and the bbeg fight resulted like something out of a gongfu movie with everyone trying to hit the bbeg while balancing on the mast rope. Probably must've been a pain to adjudicate.
My main issue with GMing is trying to fit the map(after getting rid of all the trap marks, and markers) into the online platform I'm trying to run on.
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I've (almost) always run homebrew campaigns and stuff, and I design the dungeons and other encounter spaces to fit the dry/wet erase mats I have.
Designing your first adventure really isn't that hard. Don't feel obligated to run a pre-published adventure. Unless you want to.
Thanks everyone for the help!
In terms of being able to handle random/off at a tangent situations - things that I think really boost the enjoyability - how do you approach it?
I suppose what I'm thinking about is having a bank of monster/bad guy stats to call upon - nothing too in depth but maybe just:
HP, AC, saves, CMD, attack rolls (if martial), available spells (if caster), any special attacks.
In order to keep things manageable from both a time and logistics perspective I dont want to keep folders and folders of info - so just the key stuff to be able to handle 'going off plot'.
Also I have a tablet - so I can keep everything in one place.
What do you think?
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I'd say if you're looking for something to start with that won't be dull for experienced or new players, I can't help but think of Jacobs Tower. I've only read parts of it? But it seems to be amazing from what I've seen. Simple, you don't have to worry about xp (since they level based on what level you're on) and it covers tons of stuff fairly quickly, I think. Plus level 6 is deliciously fun/evil :D
Design modularly.
That is: design encounters that can be thrown in anywhere. I used to use index cards with the basic stats - HP, AC, damage dealt, resistances, etc. - and leave the rest "loose" so I could adapt.
Want an encounter with undead? You've got one prepped. Want an encounter with brigands? Orcs? Fey? Demons? You've got them statted and ready to use.
Have an idea of what might be encountered where, with some possibly set in terms of location.
Anything that doesn't get used this session is still ready to use at a later one. And so you're less locked into a railroad "you have to go there and do this!" mentality.
That's the challenge with using prepared/written APs or modules - they aren't tailored to your specific group. Great for the overall details, but change them as you see fit for your players.
Yes, a tablet or laptop is a huge aid!
Also, as a GM, you can give the players the options of A, B, or C, and then have all of them lead to result or encounter D.
For example, if the PCs are looking for information about the missing prince, they can go to the docks, go to the temple, or go to thieves guild, and no matter where they go, they hear information telling them the missing prince was last seen in the woods outside of town.