Hi Yusuke!
Seems like you are primed for an Amulet of Mighty Fists. You should be facing a lot of CR7 enemies, and they usually have AC of 20. Keeping hit above 50% is ideal.
And now onto Derklord...
remember that this guide is 100% PFS-oriented so I usually shape my answers towards that.Sure, but I wasn't making suggestions for your guide, I was answering a post in this thread. Unless specified, I presume people to be talking about home games. Not the least because PFS bans are so ridiculously arbitrary that I would have to look up every single f~%&ing thing and I'm really not willing to do that.
I try to answer within the framework of PFS in this thread too.
I disagree with the notion PFS bans are arbitrary. I think they are conservative, too much sometimes, but thought-out. I could argue against one, but not without conceding the underlying motivation for it...."you don't need cheese to make a viable, fun character".Would you call a Gunslinger (or crossbow user) with Rapid Reload "cheese"? Would you call any ranged weapon user with Precice Shot "cheese"? Because that's what the Ascetic Style chain does, it removes arbitrary mechanical limitations.
I don't see what's supposed to be cheesy about Ascetic Style. The Ascetic Style chain is explicitly designed to make weapons usable with unarmed specific stuff, and that's what it does. Even the more narrow of the author's two different "this is how it was supposed to be" version wouldn't really change anything because the real power comes from Ascetic Form (because you really want to use the Ki Pool bonus attack and Style Strikes with your weapon).
Ok, stacking an AoMF with a magic weapon is a bit cheesy, I'll give you that, but it's neither a novel thing (projectile weapon users can do that too since forever), nor is it anyhere near incredibly widespread abuses like rage cycling.
Bro. Who do you think you are talking to?
Anyway, I have since then understood that even if Ascetic Style feels a needed niche, it's not designed right.
I'd say that the one big problem with Ascetic Style/Form doesn't come from itself but that structure around it.
To make Ascetic Style/Form viable in the game, two things would need to happen:
1. It'd need to require, somehow, that your weapon be a ki focus weapon. This gives this playing style less of a head start over unarmed builds. Keeping balance in progression is important.
2. A new item should be released that can enhance unarmed strikes beyond a total combined mod of +5 (unlike Amulet of Mighty Fists which is capped at that). This removes the structural deficit of unarmed playstyles late game in that they cannot get a +5 weapon with a couple of exciting modifiers, whereas armed builds can. Perhaps the cost can be toyed with too.
I've been thinking about point 2 for the longest time.
Anyway, to summarize: yes, Quicken SLA on a PC is still super cheesy.
Any GM allowing QSLA for a PC should reconsider. An extreme amount of exploitable things could be done with that. It's a Monster feat for a reason....It's a monster feat bacause paizo designed the game with only human PCs (with only vanilla core classes) in mind. Just like the natural attack discriptions are made for monsters (so what, should any GM allowing natural attack options for PCs reconsider, too?), the monster feats aren't monster feats for balancing reasons but because Paizo thought that only monsters would want to use them...
1. Quicken SLA is not exclusively a thing that powers up martials.
2. It's not there just for 1st level abilities.
3. I'd be taking Ability Focus on Stunning Fist every day if monster feats were available. Coincidentally, there's a feat that increases the DC of Stunning Fist by just +1. To me that says that there are some feats that were intended for Monsters, and are too good for players. See also Racial Heritage (giant) cheese.
Is there a multiclass section in here I can't find?
I've been toying with dipping a level (maybe as much as 4) of either Cleric, either Sacred Attendant or Separatist (for the aquatic terrain domain w/an Undine) on a Sensei build I'm toying with. The basic idea is Ki Channel and a headband for tons of extra Ki. But Sacred Attendant also looks handy for some relatively cheap AC, particularly for a Scaled Fist.
No multiclass section in the build, as it's mostly catered to people starting out (next update will include a section on "How to Play an UnMonk")
However, Sensei doesn't work at all because this is an UnMonk guide and Sensei doesn't stack.
Thanks for answering my previous question, Secret Wizard. I died and had to be revived, so unfortunately, lost all the money I was saving for Amulet of Mighty Fists...lmao.
I noticed on Herolab that at level 6, it shows I'm +10/+10/+6. Does this mean I get two attacks normal without flurry, allowing me to have 3 attacks with flurry, then 4 attacks with a ki point?
Yep, that's correct. At level 11th, you should get two more attacks, a low -10 attack and another full BAB flurry attack.
Also, how did you die? Just curious!
I just noticed...as an unchained monk, will I never get feats again? I only get "Bonus Feats"? One of the other melee is wanting to do teamwork feat, but I can't get those feats anymore. =O
you still get your normal feats at 7, 9 , 11...
Secret Wizard,
for the Mostly Human trait, we get all human bonuses, correct? Herolab does not work, but if it did, we would get the +1/3 ki point, extra feat, correct? Does that mean we would lose the Darkvision?
Hi Kuriin!
Mostly Human, in addition to making you count as a humanoid, gives you access to options selectable by Humans, such as the +1/4 ki point FCB.
However, it does not grant you Human racial traits, such as the Bonus Feat, but that also means you keep Darkvision.
Guide updated for May!
Guide updated for May!
Care to share which sections got updated? Or is there an update list on your guide?
Did a pass on the archetype section (Brazen Disciple was added, Sage Counselor now has a ton of notes saying it basically sucks in comparison), added a note on the new Human racial from LotFW, retouched the features sections.
I wanna do a new pass on the build section and create a "How to Play an UnMonk" section, but I'm lazy and I'm waiting for an archetype or feature that is really groundbreaking to make any major updates.
Who is the ultimate unchained monk grappler? How can I rival the tetori monk.
Ya can't.
BUT, how do I make the best unchained grappler?
I have some ideas but I never tested them out.
Safest one is likely an overoptimized Shoanti Human with giant and hobgoblin blood focused on Charging Stag Style + Dimensional Assault. Teleport in through a charge, grapple, prone, pin, Stunning Fist. Basically a mystic fullback.
I don't know what a Brazen Disciple does, but given that the picture in my head has me turning into a 14-ft-tall juggernaut of red-hot metal, I'm likely going to have a bit of a letdown, aren't I?
I don't know what a Brazen Disciple does, but given that the picture in my head has me turning into a 14-ft-tall juggernaut of red-hot metal, I'm likely going to have a bit of a letdown, aren't I?
Actually, no.
You are gonna have a major letdown.
One thing Paizo has failed to do so far is to provide an UnMonk archetype that switches things around.
Well, it was a long shot, to be sure. My idea kind of skirted the line between "archetype" and "walking Judas Priest album cover".
Well, it was a long shot, to be sure. My idea kind of skirted the line between "archetype" and "walking Judas Priest album cover".
It's not unchained but you could make a case for the Scarred Monk for the most metal monk...
(looks up Scarred Monk)
I was gonna say Ironskin hobgoblin, but day-um!
(looks up Scarred Monk)
I was gonna say Ironskin hobgoblin, but day-um!
f!~+ing blood eagles amirite
f#%&ing blood eagles amirite(looks up Scarred Monk)
I was gonna say Ironskin hobgoblin, but day-um!
(nods)
I just wanted a big superheated metal guy with big Carl Yazstremski sideburns.
Speaking of Brazen Disciple, is it compatible with Unchained Monk? One of the Hellknight archetypes specifically called out it was for the Unchained Summoner so Im unclear if its just an accidental omission from Brazen Disciple or intentional.
Speaking of Brazen Disciple, is it compatible with Unchained Monk? One of the Hellknight archetypes specifically called out it was for the Unchained Summoner so Im unclear if its just an accidental omission from Brazen Disciple or intentional.
Brazen Disciple is expressly compatible with UnMonk, otherwise I wouldn't add it to the guide. CF: Nornkith Monk from Legacy of the First World.
Damn. Scarred monk. Would it be actually possible to adapt it for the Umonk?
If you remove Armor of Scars and replace it for the typical Barkskin, you could make it into an archetype that allows access to an alternate set of ki powers.
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Hi! Do you foresee an Invested Regent build being added to the guide? Or to thumbnail a build, what might a decent 25-point stat line be? I can come up with ability scores of Str 18 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 7 Wis 16 Cha 13 on a Dual-Talent Human, but that has one point left over that doesn't fit anywhere. So maybe:
Dual-Talent Human
Str 17
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 8
Wis 16
Cha 14
Feats / Invested Powers
1: Extra Investiture Points
2: Divine Favor (B)
3: Dragon Style
5: Dragon Ferocity
6: etc etc.
Traits:
Fate's Favored
???
I'd need to look more closely at the powers and feats available at 6+, but it could be a bonus feat and then Extra Power at 7th, or a power and Peerless Courtier.
I have an Aasimar available still, so could get Wis/Cha, Dex/Wis, or Str/Cha from that. Each of those has their own compromises with respect to ability scores, so I'd probably go with a freely-available PFS race.
This sorta looks alright for me, just wanted to put it in the thread for potential input! Thanks for reading.
The Extra Investiture Points aren't that useful early on. Fights aren't that prevalent and they aren't that useful. Consider Cunning for your first feat to compensate for low INT.
I like the S17 build a lot more than the other. If this is for PFS, even more so, because providing diverse utility is more important.
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Is Cunning a third-party feat? I'll look around some more to see if I can find it. And I could possibly just rebuild into this at 2nd level with one of my 3xp characters, so at least the extra investiture points would have a use if I pick up Divine Favor. Or perhaps if the rebuilding rules work the way that I think, I could retrain my 1st level feat into Peerless Courtier and augment my skills that way.
Thanks for the feedback!
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Cunning is from villian's codex and as far as I'm aware not up on any online site. It adds 1 skill per level like toughness and HP.
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Is Cunning a third-party feat? I'll look around some more to see if I can find it. And I could possibly just rebuild into this at 2nd level with one of my 3xp characters, so at least the extra investiture points would have a use if I pick up Divine Favor. Or perhaps if the rebuilding rules work the way that I think, I could retrain my 1st level feat into Peerless Courtier and augment my skills that way.
Thanks for the feedback!
As Chess_Pawn stated, it's from Villain Codex. I'd wait for Archives of Nethys to update in the coming weeks.
I thought I'd add some thoughts (sorry if discussed already): if you make use of variant multiclassing; you can play (unchained) monk with variant multiclass in cleric. This nets you channeling at level 7 among other benefits (which in turn can come in handy for qualifying for Guided Hand or/and Crusader's Flurry).
Is "Iron Will" one of the better feats to choose at level 7, Secret Wizard? Or would you suggest something else? (I'm pretty much following the Stone Dragon)
It's an option! There are several good feats for Monks though. Sometimes, you want something as simple as Iron Will, but perhaps your party lacks a trapspotter and you want to pick up Skill Focus (perception) or Alertness. Sometimes you realize the party is struggling vs casters and Improved Grapple would fit nicely. Sometimes adventuring days are too long and Extra Ki looks tempting. Sometimes you want Aquadynamic Focus because you are playing underwater a lot.
7th feat for most classes is the most context dependent of them all.
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Just an idea, but it'd be really nice if you shared the link(s) to the new stuff when you post here. But thanks for compiling this stuff together and staying on top of it. That's awesome.
Like
HERE!
thanks pwny
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Introducing...
Discuss.
Thanks to your help, many villains have been turned into pink mist/pulp and treasures were looted, and apocalypses averted.
I thank you.
Introducing...
Discuss.
Thanks to your help, many villains have been turned into pink mist/pulp and treasures were looted, and apocalypses averted.
I thank you.
you have played right into my schemes, you unwitting pawn
Dear Secret wizard, and which of the typical builds of your guide, do you consider the most powerful and interesting?
Dear Secret wizard, and which of the typical builds of your guide, do you consider the most powerful and interesting?
Most powerful, Ascetic Style builds, surely. They cheat on GP economy.
Most interesting... I think an Electric Eel Style build based on grappling and Medusa's Wrath would be fun, though it'd only be available for later in the midgame.
A build Scaled Fist will not be completed snapshot at level 12?
Thanks for your guide OP, after near a week of looking into the monk i've found it to be the best help to creating an unchained monk. There's an impressive amount of discussion and complaints about the core monk out here, enough for one to spend 2 days googling before learning there's such a thing as an unchained monk, when all they know of is the CRB.
If someone has the time, i'd appreciate some help in adjusting my character, as my limited knowledge of feats as a beginner is somewhat of a handicap.
So i decided to play a monk as my first character, it's a lot of fun playing a str-focused build at lvl 1, but with people that don't put a lot of thought in their characters i found i'm kind of stealing the spotlight (or would have if i didn't make so many critical failures). I would like to get some utility out of my monk, enforcer/disheartening display/shatter defenses looks like a good way to achieve this while enabling me to use medusa's wrath regularly, and makes for a good RP addition for my half-orc kind brute.
Scaled Fist sounds like it could help feat-wise, but my rolls seem inappropriate for this more MAD archetype as i need to dump a stat. I know my GM wouldn't mind me switching some stats, feats and archetype. As of now (lvl1), my scores are :
STR : 20 (18+2Racial)
DEX : 14
CON : 14
INT : 13
WIS : 17
CHA : 6
So, with these stats, how can my unchained monk gain more party utility ? Scaled Fist, or maybe Perfect Scholar ?
Is INT6 an ok dump for scaled fist ?
I should mention that neither mantis monk nor OP's last elemental build are appealing to me.
If somehow i've missed a helpful guide or discussion, please point me to it !
I think that looks pretty great for a Perfect Scholar though.
Get the Cunning feat at 1st level for more skills (gets you up to 6 skills per level if you are Human). For your other 1st level feat, Weapon Focus won't be bad.
Get Deific Obedience (Irori) at 3rd level for a big blanket boost to Knowledge skills.
Then move onto your style feats. If you wanna be more utility based, you could go for that Electric Eel Style build I was talking about XD