I think the most efficient route for Medusa's Wrath is to get the Enforcer feat. Make your first attack non-lethal(Or use the Elbow Smash Style Strike), get a a free intimidate and if the opponent is shaken Shatter Defenses is online which leads to two extra attack from Medusa's Wrath.
Stone Shield is an option for Qinggong too. It might not be the best, but the cover bonus it can provide against area effects is pretty nice too.
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My favourite: The Trip-to-make-them-Flat-Footed thing from the Seven Branched Sword (possibly via Leg Sweep).
Any thoughts about the Kusarigama with Ascetic Style?
If you use the written wording of Ascetic Style (i.e. UAS damage progression), it's a really good weapon for mid to high levels (I wouldn't allow the kama part to be used as a reach weapon, but even than it's awesome).
I like this guide. Well done.
It doesn't work that way either. Spin Kick makes the target flat-footed as part of making the attack. It's only flatfooted for the duration of the spin kick.
If it's not flat-footed before the attack is made, you can't make the attack, because it's not a valid target for medusa's wrath.
Spin Kick adds an exception. You make that attack vs flat footed AC, so the target is flat footed.
Hey, I just noticed a typo in the Skills section:
"Here’s a list of the skills that might be of use to Brawlers."
Little bit of copypasta from your Brawler guide, I'm guessing...?
Yeah, it really is a mess.
The way I'd rule it (which I consider to be the intended funktion because that's basically how the weapon functions in fealö life) is that you chose for every attack which part of the weapon you use: Blunt grappling reach weapon for 1d4 or slashing trip weapon for 1d6. No x1.5 Str (although I guess you could you use the ball part two-handed, but then you can't switch for the rest of the round).
Unless you GM is very lenient, you'd need to enchant both ends for the full funktion, though.
Bah, I'm gonna stick to Sansetsukon of Seven-Branched Sword.
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They can also be met before the attack already.
I think all of those conditions can be dealt by monk attacks with some feats though. Seems best to focus on 1 or 2.-Dazing Fist
-Spin Kick
-Paralyzing Strike
-Gorgons Fist (Scorpions Style required)
-Staggering Fist
-Stunning Fist
-any knock out or sleep effect.Most of those have a Fort save.
There´s other ways to get there though.
-demoralizing with intimidate - dazzling display - shatter defenses.
-Demoralize with Dragon Roar and use shatter defenses.
A little late but just found this thread. My fave is dip cleric or warpreist with repose domain/blessing and take domain strike. With crusader cleric, you get added bonus of qualifying for crusader's flurry. Shizuru is best deity for this concept.
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I played around with that very concept for a while, it would be amazing if it worked with crusader's flurry and ascetic style together but even without those stacking it is still a decent build. Domain Strike on a style strike (flying kick or elbow smash) followed by a flurry of keen katana strikes.
If you did want something like that that can use crusader's flurry and ascetic style together, Nalinivati had favored weapon Urumi and Urumi is in the monk fighter weapon group despite not having the monk weapon quality, so it is valid for ascetic style as well.
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I think with crusader's flurry, you don't really need ascetic style. The best part about domain strike is you can decide to use it AFTER you know it hits. That's better than wasting a stunning fist.
This is one of the best guides I've seen in terms of organization, format, and thoroughness.
One thing I'd l like to highlight is that monks, unchained specifically, suffer from Swift action economy. You can't spend ki to get an extra attack while also using elemental fury. That also means immediate action abilities like ki guardian and insightful wisdom will limit your potential as well.
It's better to pick other abilities and save your Swift for extra attack.
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Edit: Also, because I've seen it mentioned in the coments of other guides, you might wanna think about a version for people with color blindness (using things like "(****)" to note your ratings).
Let me just reiterate that this part doesn't just mean on the definition page, but also every page where you use the color. I mean, it doesn't do any good to say that blue is five stars and red is two stars if I can't tell that "AC Bonus is blue" and "armor proficiencies is red".
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Sorry, I also meant to post this earlier, but I got distracted.
Your guide says:
The gravy train keeps on coming. More movement speed allows you to position yourself on the battlefield easily - plus you can combine it with Acrobatics checks to jump or tumble to gain extra maneuverability over tricky terrains. However, a big part of the game is spent using full-attacks so that prevents using move action to exploit this feature… that is, until you get Flying Kick (see Style Strikes.) Note that this feature grants additional movement as you scale with levels.
Creatures with a base land speed above 30 feet receive a +4 racial bonus on Acrobatics checks made to jump for every 10 feet of their speed above 30 feet.
The bonus to jumping from a high speed does not affect any form of tumbling. Just jumping.
Plus, the base speed stays 30ft. Fast Movement is an enhancement bonus, not an actual upgrade.
Noticed in the archetype section you don't include the Hamatulatsu Master. Yes, it's a chained Monk archetype but it still fits into the Unchained chassis without an issue as the only thing it outright replaces is Purity of Body which is gained with Chained at level 5 and Unchained also at level 5.
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Noticed in the archetype section you don't include the Hamatulatsu Master. Yes, it's a chained Monk archetype but it still fits into the Unchained chassis without an issue as the only thing it outright replaces is Purity of Body which is gained with Chained at level 5 and Unchained also at level 5.
Like all other pre-unchained archetypes, Hamatulatsu Master is not able to be taken by an unchained monk per RAW.
Finally, with the exception of the monk, these classes should work with any of the archetypes from previous books as long as the classes still have the appropriate class features to replace.While it is true that an unchained Hamatulatsu Master is an easy house rule, it is a house rule.
While it is true that an unchained Hamatulatsu Master is an easy house rule, it is a house rule.
Well that is just terrible...
This is a good guide. I am curious as to why the sample builds go up to level 12. If it is for PFS play then it should be up to level 11 since you can only play Seeker content at level 12+. For most of the build it doesn't matter but your starting stats are based on stat bumps at 4th, 8th, and 12th level.
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Also level 12 is usually good for low level campaigns to imagine where they could get to, and for high level campaigns to know their starting point.
^Good to see this being maintained. Also checked out the sections following the archetypes, which seem to have received some material since the last time I looked. Would have liked to see more non-Human build examples, but I guess Humans are just the best for most things (not just Monk, Unchained or otherwise).
The thing about humans is that they are easily replaced by other races, whereas a build fit particularly for a, say, Aasimar, cannot be easily replicated by other races.
yeah, make the default race just a +2 to any stat but nothing else. Then it fits great for humans or half-elves or half-orcs. Cause otherwise the feats being delayed could really change the default.
Minor error. The Stone Dragon Oread build has the wrong damage listed. You correctly list the first attack at 2d8 + 14 (+6 Strx2, +2 AoMF) But forget the 1.5 Str dmg on the rest of the attacks. So they should be 2d8 +11 (+6 Str x1.5 +2 AoMF)
I plan to play the build in PFS. But there is very little incentive to not use a weapon for the first 4 - 5 levels.
I plan to play the build in PFS. But there is very little incentive to not use a weapon for the first 4 - 5 levels.
Correct. This is embedded in the design of the monk - as you ascend from the mundane to the mystic, you leave your trappings and finally find self-perfection.
Said it before, but you should at least acknowledge combat stamina as a solid option for games that allow it as a feat. The stunning fist combat trick alone is useful and they get a solid amount of bonus feats to take advantage of.
Just had a thought: I noticed that all of the build examples totally dump Charisma. This is understandable, but it got me thinking: Any reasonably optimal way to get a decent Intimidate build out of an Unchained Monk? (I suppose you would go for some kind of Strength build, take Intimidating Prowess, and un-dump but not pump Charisma, but after that I haven't yet thought of the details).
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Just had a thought: I noticed that all of the build examples totally dump Charisma. This is understandable, but it got me thinking: Any reasonably optimal way to get a decent Intimidate build out of an Unchained Monk? (I suppose you would go for some kind of Strength build, take Intimidating Prowess, and un-dump but not pump Charisma, but after that I haven't yet thought of the details).
If you were going to go with an intimidate build, Bruising Intellect would allow Int instead of CHA, which would be enough to offset the CHA penalty assuming a moderate Int.
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My tiefling monk has a -3 charisma mod and +8 intimidate at lvl 5. Sure it's not awesome but it's pretty respectable considering my deficit. (5 ranks, -3 mod, +3 trained, +2 tiefling, +1 trait(adopted -> Bred for War, +1 CMB and +1 intimidate) = 8)
It gives me at least some presence socially. (note I'm not going for an intimidate combat build so not of my feats make use of it, this is just so I can sometimes participate socially)
Just had a thought: I noticed that all of the build examples totally dump Charisma. This is understandable, but it got me thinking: Any reasonably optimal way to get a decent Intimidate build out of an Unchained Monk? (I suppose you would go for some kind of Strength build, take Intimidating Prowess, and un-dump but not pump Charisma, but after that I haven't yet thought of the details).
High charisma (and Intimidating Prowess, for that matter) are hardly necessary for intimidate builds.
I would go ahead and dump INT a bit to keep CHA neutral though, mostly for aesthetic purposes.
Updated post UE errata.
None of the builds were affected in terms of AC due to the Jingasa nerf. They just lost the crit denial.
The item was replaced by a dusty prism ioun stone for most builds except the first.
Needless to say, Brawling nerf makes Monks STRONGER, as it was one of the few remaining incentives to use another class.
It's a campaign specific item, so I'd probably avoid mentioning it.
buffering cap?
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I liked the Pummel Rider build sugestion, but I know my GM and his tatics against Rider characters, so I made some alterations in the build.
I call it Asura Pummel, because that's the name of my character.
My main concern is to demolish high priority enemies before they have a chance to do something.
ASURA PUMMEL
Archetypes: None
Race: Human
Alternate Racial Traits:
Double Talented
Traits: Reactionary, Quain Martial Artist
Favored Class Bonus: HP up to lvl 2, them Extra Ki
Attributes at creation:
STR 18 (16+2), DEX 14, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 17 (15+2), CHA 7
Feat and Talent Choices:
(1) Pummeling Style, BONUS FEAT: Dodge
(2) BONUS FEAT: Deflect Arrows
(3) Improved Initiative
(4) KI POWER: Qinggong Power (barkskin), +1 WIS
(5) Weapon Focus(Unarmed Strike), STYLE STRIKE: Spin Kick
(6) BONUS FEAT: Horn of the Criosphinx, KI POWER: Elemental Fury
(7) Stunning Fist Adept
(8) KI POWER: Sudden Speed, +1 STR
(9) Pummeling Charge
(10) BONUS FEAT: Medusa’s Wrath, KI POWER: Qinggong Power (ki leech), STYLE STRIKE: Elbow Smash
(11) Hammering the Gap
(12) KI POWER: Diamond Soul, +1 STR
I got spin kick to make sure I can deliver the first hit against some nasty enemies, the subsequent hits are made easy to deliver with hammer the gap.
Seems alright but it's not particularly amazing. It still knocks you down and probably kills you later.
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Since one can wear equipment in both the Body & Chest slots, you should include a section for Chest slot items-
Like the Snakeskin Tunic should deserve mention in the chest slot.
+1 AC bonus, +2 Dex enhancement (and the +2 saves vs Poison) may not be worth the 8000g it costs, but for monks- it's an alternative to Bracers of Armor.
Also, Corset of Delicate Moves- An additional Swift action, for a move action?! For monks, being able to SA-Style/SA-Ki power would mean a lot. for 2000, it's a cheap price to pay for an additional swift action.
Also, why no mention of Hand wraps of Blinding Ki? Stunning Fist twice during an extended flurry is nice for monks that find themselves in a crowd.
I know it's best for Core Monks, still.
Since one can wear equipment in both the Body & Chest slots, you should include a section for Chest slot items-
Like the Snakeskin Tunic should deserve mention in the chest slot.
+1 AC bonus, +2 Dex enhancement (and the +2 saves vs Poison) may not be worth the 8000g it costs, but for monks- it's an alternative to Bracers of Armor.
Also, Corset of Delicate Moves- An additional Swift action, for a move action?! For monks, being able to SA-Style/SA-Ki power would mean a lot. for 2000, it's a cheap price to pay for an additional swift action.Also, why no mention of Hand wraps of Blinding Ki? Stunning Fist twice during an extended flurry is nice for monks that find themselves in a crowd.
I know it's best for Core Monks, still.
Corset is great and I'll add it in because it's actually quite good and cheap.
The rest I can totally live without and are too expensive to matter.
I personally love headbutt and would rate it higher. Firstly, watching Daredevil they always do that move and it just looks cool. Secondly it's really good for hunting down spellcasters. (Just look at my name). While I can see the weaknesses, if you target lower BAB spellcasters it should be easier to hit, and has a great bonus. Staggered Wizards standing right next to you suffering full attack, it's a gift... Otherwise it's a great build, and I'll definitely apply it to a Pummeling Orc I'm coming up with.
It's good but I think Stunning Fist mostly covers that function.
Guide updated with the Inner Sea Intrigue's Perfect Scholar archetype, which is actually quite good!
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Introducing...
Discuss.
Forgive me if I'm dragging behind others here and repeating what they already stated... working off of my work desktop so a lot of things are blocked(including google docs :( ) so I had to take a round-about way of getting the guide and looking through it. The reason I'm looking through it though, is because I LOVE Monks in general and always have since I started in 4th, but 1000x more in Pathfinder. 5th is fun too. So I wanted to contribute to your guide here if I can help it.
**** Book; Unchained Monk Class Analysis
Under "Gained at level 13"; I would personally mark "Tongue of the Sun and Moon" as yellow. For Monks it really is useless, but just cute to have around.
Under "Utility"; I think you should make note of "Ki Leech" and it effectively being active at all times, in the same paragraph as "Regarding your Ki Pool size,...". I'd suggest it as a Blue or Green, personally.
**** Book; Unchained Monk Equipment
Kudos on the mention of Blade of the Sword-Saint. God-Tier indeed and one I hope to get one day.
You left out the Chest item - I'd recommend Bane Baldric. +2 to Attack/Damage/Enhancement Value is almost impossible to say no to.
Feet; I'd add in Sandstorm Sandals. Miss Chance stacks nicely with AC :) You can almost always argue there is sand or dirt in the area too.
Everything else looks pretty good.
**** Book; Unchained Monk Feature Choices
Flying Kick; I'd add a note letting others know that you can not only do this at the start of a round, but during mid-flurry as well(assuming you have at least one attack left).
Empty Body; I feel it's more of a green item... since casters still do it better, and the ki cost is a bit high early on. It only lasts 1 minute too, and really with little advantages other than ignoring your surroundings. Great utility item though. Personally I feel like it's better to just wait for Abundant Step.
Ki Metabolism; I feel this should be a yellow or yellow/green item. It's OK at best and the other choices greatly outshine this.
Insightful Wisdom; This definitely should be a Blue item. Anything that allows you to spend a measly 1 Ki to let a party member re-roll a save, is incredibly worthy and powerful. It's a great way for the Monk to contribute to the party too, aside from martial prowess.
**** Book; Unchained Monk Race Selection
Other Races; I feel like Vanara should be Green. Their stats line up perfectly, and they can even get bonuses to CMD vs Trip/Bull Rush on top of the sickeningly great Climb Speed in which a Monk can take advantage of on top of doing really cool stuff.
**** Book; Unchained Monk Skills
Sense Motive; deserves a Blue entry. Snake Style/Sidewind/Fang utilizes and boosts this, using it as AC and Crit Confirmation. Not to mention it's the Monk's only real way to contribute to social situations with their generally poor charisma. Then top it off with preventing bluff/feint, because flat-footed is always a terrifying moment to a monk.
**** Book; Unchained Monk Styles, Feats, and Traits
Snake Style; I'm truly disappointed here. This deserves a Blue. Bonuses to defenses, aids in making opponents miss, truly makes them suffer greatly(repeatedly) when they do miss, and gives you piercing damage. Combines extraordinarily well with Ascetic Style too. Not to mention when you do crit on that 20, it's a guarantee it'll confirm.
Choosing Traits; I'd include Fate's Favored, probably as a Green, in combination with Orc/Sacred Tattoo or 1 level dip of cleric(divine favor).
Choosing Traits; I think Ancestral Weapon is worth including, I just don't know the chances of the GM approving. It'd be a Blue item for sure, but I don't know how GMs generally feel about it.
Choosing traits; Wisdom in the Flesh is a good one worth mentioning. It can open up some UMD doors. Yellow or Green item I feel.
Overall: I'm thinking there should be a "Weaponized Guide" and an "Unarmed Guide" with the same content(a few variations in between) but different ratings for each. Kudos on the guide though, and very well done. I look forward to more!
I think maybe a [PFS] or [NonPFS] "tag" should be with each feat/ability. This way you could just include everything 1st Party with zero worries, but still include PFS.
It'd be great to see Martial Focus and Weapon Style Mastery mentioned too, as those in combination with Ascetic Style/Form and another Style Feat tree would be an optimal combo.
I'm not sure where you can add this; I think maybe Noting a 1 level dip into Crusader Cleric or just Cleric with the Crusader's Flurry ability should be added, so you can Flurry with a Katana if you were to worship, say, Shizuru. You'd then have access to Gentle Rest from the Repose Domain, which if you then get Domain Strike you can deliver that ability as a swift action(and Medusa's Wrath feeds off of this; no saves involved). Conductive weapon enchant will let you just deliver it with a melee attack too. Worthy notes all from a 1 level dip. That and you can take Fate's Favored trait and your Divine Favor will be a +2 on you for attack/dam! Monks get a lot out of 1 level from them. If the GM can swing it, as you can worship as desired but gain access to a domain based off of ideal or culture; the Chaos domain is a good one, with it's Touch of Chaos(no saves again!). Once you get Domain Strike or Conductive, you can deliver it and it'll greatly increase the odds of Stunning Fist working, and also really screwing over targets since every D20 roll they throw out there, has to roll twice for that turn and take the worse result.
That's all for my input for now! I hope it was constructive.
Thank you for the comments, Kazumetsa. Great to see you agree with me in so many items.
For starters, let me just say that my first objective with this guide was to explicitly show that the Unchained Monk class itself was not just functional but extremely adequate for adventuring. Few months ago, that was not what most people around thought - calling it worse than a Sohei (ew) or just a beatstick... when in reality this class is the ultimate beatstick.
I don't shy away from saying it still has some core issues (I just wish it lost some power somewhere to gain MORE attribute increases, it's a very stat-greedy class), but it's an amazing option for PFS.
With that in mind, I made sure not to mention advanced mechanics like Cleric dipping. All I really wanted was people to play the class, make sure they knew they could easily be making it work. The advanced mechanics, each person can figure out.
Now, back to your specific comments:
1. Tongue has been useful to me at least. A lot of creatures will forgo combat if you give them a reason not to, but most of them speak Giant or something that nobody else talks.
2. I try to use Class Analysis to have players see the deficiencies and potential of a class. Once we get to Ki Power selection, if they read that part, they'll figure out how Ki Leech is useful to them.
3. Sandstorm Sandals are fun, Bane Baldric is not better than Monk's Robe in my opinion.
4. Good notes on feature choices.
5. Vanara should be Green, really.
6. Sense Motive by itself is Green because when the GM wants your party to be tricked, you'll be tricked anyway. Snake Style is not withstanding - Knowledge skills are higher for the Perfect Scholar and Bluff is higher for the Sage Counselor, but the base rankings are for base classes.
7. I fail to see the merits of Snake Style over Crane Style, particularly because the former eats up your swift actions.
8. Fate's Favored is cheese; Ancestral Weapon is amazing and I've used it, but it's probably cheese; Wisdom in the Flesh cannot be applied to UMD.
9. I should mention Weapon Style Mastery for sure.
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Now, back to your specific comments:1. Tongue has been useful to me at least. A lot of creatures will forgo combat if you give them a reason not to, but most of them speak Giant or something that nobody else talks.
2. I try to use Class Analysis to have players see the deficiencies and potential of a class. Once we get to Ki Power selection, if they read that part, they'll figure out how Ki Leech is useful to them.
3. Sandstorm Sandals are fun, Bane Baldric is not better than Monk's Robe in my opinion.
4. Good notes on feature choices.
5. Vanara should be Green, really.
6. Sense Motive by itself is Green because when the GM wants your party to be tricked, you'll be tricked anyway. Snake Style is not withstanding - Knowledge skills are higher for the Perfect Scholar and Bluff is higher for the Sage Counselor, but the base rankings are for base classes.
7. I fail to see the merits of Snake Style over Crane Style, particularly because the former eats up your swift actions.
8. Fate's Favored is cheese; Ancestral Weapon is amazing and I've used it, but it's probably cheese; Wisdom in the...
3. Bane Baldric is not a Body item like Monk's Robe. It's a Chest item!! This makes it even more valuable :D I didn't see a Chest Slot mentioned at all, so that's why I mentioned it.
7. Then at least make Snake a Green item. It just simply doesn't deserve a Yellow. The biggest merit in it, is that every time an opponent misses(this is with Snake Fang), it gives you an AoO to take against them. If you have decent to high dex(or mythic), then that is more damage than Jabbing Style could ever offer realistically. Combat Reflexes is a necessity of course. I really urge you to review it over and consider the change. Between Snake and Crane, it's made every Monk build very enjoyable for me, especially considering the AC options Monks have to choose from(Barkskin, Furious Defense, Defensive Spin, Mage Armor, Wisdom/Dex, AC Bonus(monk), etc.) It really punishes anything, by using defense as the best offense. The Swift actions aren't necessary and are merely optional, but all equally useful swift actions depending on what you need in the situation.
8. They really are cheese, but that doesn't change their usefulness! ;P I managed to convince my GM for the Ancestral weapon, for RotRL at least. It can't be too cheesy...
Also I'm very happy to help you at all! I know that guide was a lot of effort, and it looks damn good!
I didn't see a Chest Slot mentioned at all, so that's why I mentioned it.
RIP Quick Runner's Shirt 2012-2016. We hardly knew ye.
8. They really are cheese, but that doesn't change their usefulness! ;P I managed to convince my GM for the Ancestral weapon, for RotRL at least. It can't be too cheesy...
I'm not sure cheese is the right term. These traits are pretty straight forward doing what they are intended to do. Overpowered/imbalanced is not the same as cheese! Also, I'm happy about every thing that makes Humans not the absolute best race for avery single f*@@ing class.*
*) Yes, I know, I'm using exageration as a rhetorical device.
2. I try to use Class Analysis to have players see the deficiencies and potential of a class. Once we get to Ki Power selection, if they read that part, they'll figure out how Ki Leech is useful to them.
Maybe a short "but see Ki Leech in section <whatever>"?