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Scarab Sages

Gortle wrote:

I wouldn't normally suggest this but the rules are clearly broken. So rather than get bogged down in the technicality of the rules, I try to go with what I think is intended:

The best way forward is to
1) Ignore the undead trait details. Consider it just to be a marker. As the details are restated more specifically in basic undead benefits, in negative healing, and in the creature details themselves.

2) Ignore the targeting restrictions on living or undead wherever they occur. Instead choose the effect based off whether or not the target has Negative Healing. If they have Negative Healing treat them as Undead.

3) Do not allow any Positive Healing to work on creatures with Negative Healing. But allow unsigned Healing to work on all kinds of creatures.

So this means Soothe can heal undead, and you can cast Harm to heal Dhampirs and Revenants.

Constructs are another matter.

Seems pretty reasonable as a home patch to the rules, I may put this in from of my GM and group to see what they think!

Scarab Sages

Guntermench wrote:
Either way, there's nothing in it that suggests you don't have to deal with not benefiting from the Healing trait.

Fair enough, although now I'm wondering if there are any healing-tagged effects that can actually target undead? Soothe is living targets only, an Elixir of Life mentions the living in its text, etc.

Scarab Sages

I agree, it's not 'overwrite' as in replacing identically-named abilities, it's more like looking at the trait and then replacing with select parts from BUB that happen to talk about the same thing. It could definitely use some FAQ/errata entries!

Scarab Sages

Yeah, the line "These are somewhat different from the normal undead creature abilities to better fit player characters." from Basic Undead Benefits sounds like it overrides conflicting bits from the Undead trait, so that non-positive healing-trait effects are allowed by being omitted from the BUB Negative Healing section. It wouldn't need the Negative Healing section otherwise, as the Undead trait would cover the rules for that by themselves?

I suppose I can accept the 'just because' section in Book of the Dead, but I really wish the rules themselves supported it as opposed to it being a patch on top of everything. Thanks the replies!

Scarab Sages

Hi all! I know there are some older threads about healing undead, but I wanted to ask a few questions now that Basic Undead Benefits and the like exist. Here's a few things that I think I understand but may be wrong:

  • Dhampir and Revenants are living creatures, but with the negative healing ability that prevents positive healing and makes them count as undead for negative healing.
  • Skeletons, ghouls, vampires etc are undead but with the basic undead benefits, which prevents positive healing but not other sources of healing.

    So given that, is this correct for these potential healing sources?

  • Heal doesn't work on anything with negative healing, undead, or basic undead benefits traits/abilities.
  • Harm works on all of the above.
  • Soothe is written as working on undead (AON, Healing Undead), but targets a 'willing living creature'. This should work on Dhampir and Revenants as it isn't positive, but how can it target undead or basic undead benefits characters?
  • In the same section about Healing Undead, an Elixir of Life is mentioned as not working. This sorta makes sense given the mention of living creatures in the text there, but how can it not work if Soothe supposedly does work?

    Those are my main questions for now, please set me straight on anything I'm misunderstanding. Thanks!

  • Scarab Sages

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    I'd recommend Gisher's Proficiency Tables for an interesting look at available proficiency bonuses for each class.

    Scarab Sages

    Joey Cote wrote:

    Paladin of Ababar multiclassing into ranger for crossbow feats?

    Some feats seem worthwhile, whereas others interfere with the reloading cycle and being ready for a retributive strike.

  • Dedication: Hunt Prey is fine as an opening action when your crossbow is already loaded, or any turn where you don't need to immediately reload.
  • Crossbow Ace: Requires no extra actions, grants a bonus to damage after hunting or interacting to reload. This bonus persists until an attack is made or the end of your next turn, so can amplify the damage of your Retributive Strikes.
  • Monster Hunter: Grants a free Recall Knowledge check after Hunting a target, and a team bonus to hit if you succeed. Only as useful as your knowledge skills and then only if you manage to Hunt in a turn, so probably of lesser value when mixed with crossbows.
  • Hunter's Aim: Costs two actions to make a strike, and then requires the target to already be Hunted. Wouldn't easily fit in a reload-fire-reload sequence.
  • Monster Warden: Increases bonuses from Monster Hunter, but still situational due to not always being able to Hunt while reloading.
  • Quick Draw: Could be useful in general, but you may have better feats to take? Drawing and striking with a crossbow would require it to be loaded already, probably better to keep it at the ready if reasonable.
  • Far Shot: Long range combat isn't what a Paladin wants to do, and this is also at the same level as...
  • Running Reload: This is the feat that actually helps with action economy. Allows you to reload while moving into good positions for Retributive Strike's 15-foot range, which I imagine would enable more uses of the ability.
  • Favored Enemy: Also a 4th-level feat, allows you one free Hunt Prey upon rolling initiative. Helps with the Monster Hunter line a little therefore, but I'd feel this is of lower use as well for a crossbow-toting Paladin.

    I'll stop at 4th-level feats, as 6th-level or higher feats would require a level 12+ Paladin. At that level, Skirmish Strike seems good for further mobility, whereas Deadly Aim again requires a Hunted target. Penetrating Shot at level 20 seems good, but again requires Hunting.

    I think I would go with Dedication at 2nd, Crossbow Ace for the extra damage at 4th, and then maybe skip a Ranger feat at 6th but pick up Running Reload at 8th. Seems worthwhile to me, might have to reroll from a Goblin in order to actually have a wisdom score!

  • Scarab Sages

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    I'm just beginning to try out a paladin of Abadar, and you do have to be very careful with your reloads. Ideally, a mid-battle round sequence would be reload/fire/reload, but that's only if you're already near the allies you want to protect with a reaction. I think I'd favor not firing during my turn in order to be ready to use retributive strike. Although I believe you can just use your reaction without firing, should the need arise?

    Scarab Sages

    prototype00 wrote:

    Stunning Fists uses Class DC which uses Strength/Dex.

    The only thing that uses Spell DC for monks is Quivering Palm and Ki Blast, IIRC.


    Thanks, that's how I understood it. So all of the maxed-out dex and strength monks shouldn't feel like they can't also stun people now and then!

    Scarab Sages

    One thing I noticed above that didn't seem to be touched on - isn't a monk's class DC based on whichever of strength or dexterity that they chose, and therefore Stunning Fist DCs would also be based on that? I understand that a monk's spell DC is Wisdom-based, but I believed Stunning Fist used class DC. Thanks!

    Scarab Sages

    Thanks, this is a great summary. I could see going Rogue/Thief and then picking up a number of assurance feats to prop up average or low strength and charisma scores, as you mention. I believe I can get athletics to expert at second level, with intimidate sometime later for demoralize.

    Alternatively, I could go ruffian with a good strength score, medium armor with a little dex to round it out, and gain some extra demoralize uses from those feats. I'd like to be able to roll intimidate occasionally, but maybe it's best just to try assurance and save the stat points for strength, dex, or con. Anyway, plenty to think about!

    Scarab Sages

    Thanks! I'm still a tiny bit wary of dex-to-Athletics via a finesse weapon, just because I play in Society games and might encounter a strict ruling at a given table in the absence of a FAQ or errata. I'd still have options even if that wasn't allowed, however.

    I'm halfway wondering about a thief rogue, multiclassing fighter just for snagging strike/combat grab to enable sneak attacks solo. Hmmmmm...

    Scarab Sages

    Hi, apologies for this not being a Fully Researched Thread, but I was looking into Snagging Strike and related grappling feats on fighter, and noticed that few or any of them seem to actually require Athletics checks to apply their conditions.

    Would therefore a more dex-focused melee build work just as well with those sorts of feats, while avoiding the need for the heavier armors in order to keep oneself mobile? I could see it maybe mixed in with some of the dueling hand-free feats as well. Is having a strength-based Athletics score valuable for other combat reasons, such as actually having a chance at critically succeeding on a grapple check?

    Scarab Sages

    This generally all makes sense to me, but I'd be hesitant to base a Society character on any of it until an official non-playtest FAQ or errata is available. Might make a strength-based maneuver user in the meantime!

    Scarab Sages

    Ample Brigand wrote:

    Hey, can anyone point me in the right direction for character generation rules for SFS? I did some preliminary poking around and couldn't find anything. I'll be playing The Commencement so level 1 characters(?)

    Here's the guide, character creation is in an appendix towards the end I believe. (You'll still need the CRB too.) de

    Scarab Sages

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    pauljathome wrote:
    5) Mystics rock too. In combat healing is powerful and useful in this game.

    From what little I saw of the 4th level Navasi pregen, Envoys healing SP in fights is nice too!

    Scarab Sages

    Flyby does seem to give an advantage to the low roll, but it can also be used by the high roll if the other ship is still in range of movement. I think that's the one case where low might have a potential advantage, but it's also one of the higher DCs to perform, so I see it as a chance for a pilot to redeem their earlier failure if they ordinarily have a high skill bonus.

    Pilots going first due to being generally terrible are unlikely to be able to pull off a flyby anyways :D (At DC 24, it would be less than 50% for my own ace pilot operative to pull off against a T2 ship without assistance, for example!)

    Scarab Sages

    I think it's nice that they establish archetypes in the CRB, and provide a few as samples. I'm sure it'll be built more upon in later books!

    Scarab Sages

    Yeah, non-equipment sources of DR sound like a reasonable interpretation of 'natural', barring further rulings. Thanks!

    Scarab Sages

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    I play PFS and SFS pretty much exclusively, so I'm way more concerned about RAW than homebrew or more free interpretations. Also:

    Starfinder CRB, page 152 wrote:
    Benefit: What the feat enables the character (“you” in the feat description) to do. A character cannot select a feat more than once unless it specifically says so. If a character somehow has the same feat more than once, the benefits of these feats do not stack unless indicated otherwise. Unless otherwise noted, the term “level” refers to character level.

    And I was thinking more in terms of Dark Matter than Enhanced Resistance, although I still would like to know what counts as 'natural damage resistance' for terms of Dermal Plating either way.

    Scarab Sages

    Arutema wrote:

    Starting on an open source Starfinder toolset. Whether it will ever be as comprehensive as commercial tools remains to be seen.

    Right now, the point-buy calculator can work out your first-level ability scores and starting HP/SP/RP.

    Get it on GitHub. (Hit the Download Zip button under Clone or Download.)

    You will need a Python interpreter if one does not come with your OS. You can get that at

    Looks nice! I noticed one typo (pyhsical science under Scholar), and 'pilot' isn't capitalized under Ace pilot. Handy calculator though!

    Scarab Sages

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    Gary Bush wrote:

    I think, like PFS, a creature using a reach weapon does not threaten an adjacent square.

    Agree that a FAQ maybe needed.

    I don't read 'extends' as 'increases by a certain amount but then excludes the previous range.' If I didn't know Pathfinder at all, I see nothing that mentions that you can't attack adjacent?

    Also, the 'reach' weapon quality:

    CRB page 182 wrote:

    Only melee weapons can have the reach special property.

    Wielding a weapon with reach gives you 10 feet of reach for
    attacks with that weapon. See Reach and Threatened Squares
    on page 255 for more information.

    Scarab Sages

    Steve Geddes wrote:

    The front page, under the table of contents.

    I don't know if there's a way to find the tags if you don't own the scenario.

    Aha, thanks! And yes, showing tags somewhere in the description here or in a combined document would be nice.

    Scarab Sages

    The Mad Comrade wrote:
    Just for starters the Enhanced Resistance feat provides natural damage reduction equal to the character's base attack bonus. ;)

    So, are class and feat sources of DR considered 'natural' for purposes of Dermal Plating?

    ( I saw that feat, looks pretty solid! I'm kinda leaning towards using that for something like fire resistance (lasers!) and letting Dark Matter be my kinetic DR source. And I'd have cold resistance from gravitic attunement and Solarian armor also, if I go the armor route. )

    Scarab Sages

    So, Dermal Plating has rules about stacking with 'natural damage reduction' (the lesser of the natural DR or plating providing an additional +1,) but what counts as natural? Does an ability like the Solarian's Dark Matter count as a non-technological or 'natural' source? Thanks!

    Scarab Sages

    rooneg wrote:
    Yes, it is tagged as replayable.

    I keep hearing about scenarios being tagged as this or that, but _where_ are these tags displayed?

    Scarab Sages

    I agree, a grapple is not a 'melee weapon with the operative special property'. ( Nor a small arm, but the melee comparison seems more apt :D )

    Scarab Sages

    Isn't it true that all NPCs and monsters die at zero, unless the GM decides to let them linger for three turns in the case where taking them alive matters?

    Scarab Sages

    Going later lets you know the enemy's position, so that you can position your weapons in-arc and avoid theirs etc.

    Scarab Sages

    Varun Creed wrote:

    Actually, this is possible at sniper range, just not with Trick damage.

    Envoy + Hurry & Improved Hurry
    Operative + Debilitating Sniper

    You get the sniping 250+ft range, with flat-footed, debilitating trick - just not the trick attack damage.

    Looking at the Hurry text, the move action can be used to "take a guarded step, move up to her speed, or draw or sheathe a weapon." I don't think it works for activating the Sniper ability, unfortunately! ( I hoped that it did too :D )

    Edit: Separately, the last line of Trick Attack specifically disallows unwieldy weapons. I assume that Debilitating Sniper circumvents this?

    Scarab Sages

    Brew Bird wrote:
    The fact that you can't actually make your trick attack at the Sniper range (even without the bonus damage) is weird though, and my gut says it's unintentional. Like a sentence got cut out of Debilitating Sniper or something.

    Yeah, it does seem odd. Using sniper rifles to apply debilitating conditions sounds neat to me (all damage considerations aside), but my mind immediately suggests an operative a thousand feet out making the precise shot to apply the condition. However, the rules only let you walk around near the enemy with a clumsy longer-than-longarm and try to firefight with it. You could still be concealed, and you don't have to move, but it doesn't fit what I'd expect the use to be.

    Scarab Sages

    Sara Marie wrote:
    Yours was in a weird data state which should be all fixed now.

    Thanks! I didn't know if they were just sold out for everyone or what, appreciate the fix :D

    Scarab Sages

    Hi Sara, thanks for all the information. Is it correct that some subscribers won't be receiving the Starfield map, even if it was listed as part of their subscription when we signed up? I only see Terrain listed in my sub, and not Starfield currently. Thanks!

    Scarab Sages

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    Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
    It's a class that adds spell-like mental powers, better access to some Psychic Power feats, and gives you some unique mental abilities.

    Does it make your name a killing word? :D

    Scarab Sages

    Is Cunning a third-party feat? I'll look around some more to see if I can find it. And I could possibly just rebuild into this at 2nd level with one of my 3xp characters, so at least the extra investiture points would have a use if I pick up Divine Favor. Or perhaps if the rebuilding rules work the way that I think, I could retrain my 1st level feat into Peerless Courtier and augment my skills that way.

    Thanks for the feedback!

    Scarab Sages

    Hi! Do you foresee an Invested Regent build being added to the guide? Or to thumbnail a build, what might a decent 25-point stat line be? I can come up with ability scores of Str 18 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 7 Wis 16 Cha 13 on a Dual-Talent Human, but that has one point left over that doesn't fit anywhere. So maybe:

    Dual-Talent Human
    Str 17
    Dex 14
    Con 14
    Int 8
    Wis 16
    Cha 14

    Feats / Invested Powers
    1: Extra Investiture Points
    2: Divine Favor (B)
    3: Dragon Style
    5: Dragon Ferocity
    6: etc etc.
    Fate's Favored

    I'd need to look more closely at the powers and feats available at 6+, but it could be a bonus feat and then Extra Power at 7th, or a power and Peerless Courtier.

    I have an Aasimar available still, so could get Wis/Cha, Dex/Wis, or Str/Cha from that. Each of those has their own compromises with respect to ability scores, so I'd probably go with a freely-available PFS race.

    This sorta looks alright for me, just wanted to put it in the thread for potential input! Thanks for reading.

    Scarab Sages

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    John Compton wrote:
    There's a proud tradition of somewhat delusional PCs insisting that non-canonical things are true and still being an utter blast to have at the table. I know of a barbarian who believes only Jadwiga from Irrisen can cast magic, that all other spellcasting is elaborate smoke and mirrors, and that Jadwiga are angry trees that exhale bees whenever they talk.

    I still remember a character from a table a few years back that insisted he belonged to the orthodox church of Sarenrae, and therefore used a mace like any good cleric should.

    Scarab Sages

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    Oh gosh, this actually answered my question from the Campaign Clarifications thread regarding the Bookish Rogue feat and spellbooks! Thanks a bunch, that had been bothering me for a while now :D

    Scarab Sages

    And just now I see that Stag Horn and Stag Submission aren't PFS-legal. Nevermind, thread over! ( Unless I look at another grappling style :D )

    Scarab Sages

    Thanks for the feedback! Bloody-Knuckled Rowdy provides IUS, forgot to include that feat in the list. And it also grants Combat Style Master without need for prerequisites at 5th. Charging Stag isn't the best style tree, but I do like the free prone or damage when pinning offered by the Stag Submission, as well as the grapple-on-charge from Stag Horns.

    One thing I did get wrong was thinking you could grapple with AoOs - that's why I took Combat Reflexes. Still, it's not terrible as-is with a 15' reach, but the feats from there up could use some further examination. I'll consider the other suggestions too!

    Scarab Sages

    Ok, so this is is silly but please consider the following (keeping it PFS-legal as far as I'm aware):

    Human Bloodrager (Bloody-Knuckled Rowdy, Crossblooded Rager [Aberrant/Abyssal])
    STR 15+2, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 8, WIS 10, CHA 14
    1: Dodge (Human feat), Mobility, Claws (Abyssal bloodline)
    2: Charging Stag Style (Combat Style Student feat)
    3: Stag Horns
    4: Demonic Bulk (Abyssal bloodline), STR +1
    5: Stag Submission, Combat Style Master (Combat Style Student feat)
    6: Improved Grapple (Aberrant feat)
    7: Combat Reflexes
    8: Abnormal Reach (Aberrant bloodline), STR +1
    9: Vicious Stomp, Power Attack (Abyssal feat)
    11: Greater Grapple
    12: Iron Will (Aberrant feat), Abyssal Bloodrage (Abyssal bloodline), STR +1

    I was looking through Secret Wizard's styles guide in YOU ARE ALREADY DEAD, and noted that Charging Stag style was listed as decent but lacking support. Charging Stag is also achievable by second level as a human, and being embarrassingly strong with a 15' reach seemed like it'd go with charging and grappling well enough.

    The claws make up for not having flurry of blows from a Monk dip (to a certain extent), and the unarmed damage scales from BKR in situations where the claws are unavailable. I haven't calculated exact numbers, but I'd bet such a character's CMB would be good enough to deal with many foes. (Roughly, I believe raging at 4th level would give a +13 CMB before later increases from Improved and Greater Grapple.)

    I'm thinking in terms of PFS, and I realize it's missing Bloodrager staples like Raging Vitality or Iron Will (until way later at least), but I wanted to type it out regardless. And it's a build that can actually make use of Power Attack as a bonus feat from the Abyssal bloodline, which is usually taken way earlier.

    So get angry, get big, and push down some nerds. Could be fun, at least until your poor defenses get you killed :D Any thoughts?

    Scarab Sages

    I could see Jealousy working as a tank, with the abilities giving enemies a hard time when they choose to not attack the Rager. Also, Ragers advance HD faster than the related Phantom would, so the aura DCs would be a little more effective. Jealousy's skills and bonus Deceitful feat aren't nearly as nice as other phantoms, however.

    Enough of that for this thread though. Thanks for the reply, and thanks to Rosc as well for maintaining the guide in its current state!

    Scarab Sages

    Secret Wizard wrote:

    Brawler + Bloodrager added!

    Not sure if I'll include Guide links, the idea is that players simply learn to analyze a class, stop optimizing so much and just build sensibly.

    That being said, I did create an Id Rager monstrosity.

    Just found this thread, great guide! Care to share a really short thumbnail on the Id Rager creation of yours? I imagine it might be like the Urban Raker except without a need for hands-free weapons, and could use the Hatred phantom for bonuses to hit and damage. (Or maybe Anger if you managed to get slams from somewhere?)

    (Apologies for the necromancy!)

    Scarab Sages

    Fromper wrote:
    I've never really looked into that. I just assumed they'd have to buy the spellbook, then scribe spells into their spellbook from scrolls or something. But if they're using a class feature, it would make sense for them to get at least some starting spells in the spellbook for free, like a wizard.

    I don't care about the 'for free' part, I just can't quite convince myself that rogues and other characters in this situation can actually have any spells scribed into a book they own. (Whereas wizards and other classes can explicitly write spells into their own books.)

    And if a rogue can't scribe spells into their own books, I think that leaves them at the mercy of whatever other party members might or might not have a spellbook available for perusal during a session.

    Scarab Sages

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    How can unchained rogues with Bookish Rogue gain and ad spells to a spellbook? It seems difficult by RAW to get new spells in a book if you don't have the actual spellbook feature.

    Scarab Sages

    I'm interested in a code when more are available!

    Scarab Sages

    Halfling was already a good fit for Kineticist, looking forward to all the overwhelming soul builds :D More wild talents and skill points help a lot too, the playtest felt like you were able to select about .95 of what you wanted for a build. Although the additional new talents will probably make even the expanded number of talents gained feel like a tough decision, ideally!

    Scarab Sages

    John Compton wrote:
    The Pathfinder Design Team has been kind enough to write a quick FAQ regarding this issue.

    Looks like the FAQ linked isn't live yet!

    Scarab Sages

    Quick question, just to check if I have it right - kinetic blade costs 1 burn, which could be cancelled via the gather energy ability if one has both hands free. However, a telekinetic must use a physical weapon along with kinetic blade, as opposed to creating a weapon like the other kineticists. It seems kinda tricky for a melee telekineticist to avoid burn at early levels without also having something like the quick draw feat - is this a correct interpretation?

    Scarab Sages

    Orthos wrote:
    Caedwyr wrote:
    I've never been able to understand why Paizo designs as though 3pp does not exist, and will frequently create something that has already been done by a high-profile 3pp and still manage to create something inferior to the already available 3pp offering. I mean, I can understand wanting to create your own interpretation on something rather than just using the OGL to reprint the content, but you'd think Paizo would at least take a look at what has already been done well and take lessons from that.

    This. I'm actually pretty interested in Dreamscarred stuff, but only play PFS currently.

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